Daytime wetting issues for 12 Y.O. boy w/ AS..

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sparkler22
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07 Apr 2009, 11:43 am

Hi all! Just registered; first post! I've been reading Wrong Planet for quite a while.. what a great community. I'm stepmom to a 12 (well, nearly 12.. his birthday is next month)-year-old boy with AS and ADHD to boot.

One of his many issues that's been causing his Dad and I a lot of frustration lately is the fact that he consistently pees himself during the day. It's not like he does the whole business in his pants, but it's enough to be able to tell when we do the laundry and to pretty much make him smell like dried pee.

We've taken him to the doc, just to be sure it wasn't a physical issue.. and just as we figured, it's basically that he doesn't give himself enough time to get to the bathroom, or go to the bathroom enough.

He's got a litany of excuses for why he does it (I forgot, I have to sign out of class to go to the bathroom, I didn't think I had to go, etcetc).. but what it boils down to is that he just gets so absorbed in stuff.

We've tried so many kinds of deprivation consequences for this.. no vid games, no TV (as those are the things he gets sucked into the hardest, and when it seems to happen most). This past Saturday, we told him he could play vid games for a couple hours, but if he peed himself while doing it, there would be no more vid games for quite some time. What do you suppose he did? Yup.

As an aside, he's also a nighttime bedwetter, but we don't really associate that with this. We're aware that many boys wet the bed into their teens, and his Dad had the same problem til he was about 14.

He gets bullied enought in school... and if other kids get a whiff of that and he becomes the "stinky kid".. well, I hate to think of how that would go.

Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Suggestions? Things that might actually work?



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07 Apr 2009, 2:12 pm

Have his teacher automatically sign him out and have him visit the toilet every 2 hours. This shouldn't be too hard to incorporate into his IEP.



sparkler22
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07 Apr 2009, 2:16 pm

That's a thought.. however.. it also happens at home and pretty much any and every where else.

And.. isn't this something that, at almost 12 years of age (even with his social and maturity detriments) he should somehow be capable of handling on his own?



07 Apr 2009, 3:11 pm

Could he have incontinence or maybe a very small bladder? People who have small bladders can't hold it as long so they end up having accidents.
It is possible he could have a uncommon interests where he just likes wetting himself but since he does it in school it is unlikely since he does it out in public. Kids who have that fetish wouldn't do it out in public where everyone can see it.



sparkler22
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07 Apr 2009, 3:23 pm

No, it's not a physical issue like a small bladder.. we took him to the doctor to check for stuff like that.

We think it's just hat he gets so absorbed in things.. he doesn't place a high enough priority on getting to the toilet in time. The question is how to encourage him to change that priority. He knows that thing slike TV and vid game times go hand in hand with his NOT peeing in his pants.. but still.. he does it.



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07 Apr 2009, 3:51 pm

sparkler22 wrote:
That's a thought.. however.. it also happens at home and pretty much any and every where else.

And.. isn't this something that, at almost 12 years of age (even with his social and maturity detriments) he should somehow be capable of handling on his own?


"Should" and "can" are different concepts. I think your best bet is creating a potty schedule and forcing him onto to it. Give him a watch with an alarm on it and everything. If he really was capable of this, the consequences you've already tried would have worked (assuming you were consistent and persistent with them). And, putting him on a schedule isn't exactly letting him off. You may find that he wants his freedom back and gets inspired to work harder at it.

The other idea would be panty liners ... but I think he would choose the schedule idea.

If you've looked into everything else, now it's time to adapt. Draw him into the process, and let him be part of the decision on the right work-around to use.


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sparkler22
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07 Apr 2009, 4:18 pm

Yes, I'm inclined to think you're correct. The watch idea is a good one.. of course, he'll most likely forget to set the watch and we'll have to do that, or he'll lose the watch, or he'll ignore it and just shut it off...

We have a double alarm clock to help with the bedwetting that wakes him up at 2:30 am so he can go to the bathroom and ostensibly cut back on the wet bed.. but sometimes he just shuts it off and gets back in bed, knowing full well that'll lead to a soaked bed in the morning. His Dad (who is also rather AS-y) and was also a bedwetter, says he always wanted very very badly to stop wetting the bed and wanted to do anything to try to keep huis bed dry. My Stepson seriously just doesn't seem to care. Wet bed, dry bed, no diff to him. I wonder if the same kind of thing doesn't apply to the daytime pee issues.



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07 Apr 2009, 4:43 pm

This may be an issue where his senses are not picking up signals when he is absorbed in the activity of the time. I know this because when I am absorbed in something, my hearing shuts off unless I do something that requires my hearing to pick up something (and even then, that sometimes does not work). In one case, someone drove a bus into a fence 100 ft in front of me and I absolutely heard no noise what so ever.

The fact of the matter is, he may not feel like he needs to use the bathroom.



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07 Apr 2009, 6:21 pm

sparkler22 wrote:
Hi all! Just registered; first post! I've been reading Wrong Planet for quite a while.. what a great community. I'm stepmom to a 12 (well, nearly 12.. his birthday is next month)-year-old boy with AS and ADHD to boot.

One of his many issues that's been causing his Dad and I a lot of frustration lately is the fact that he consistently pees himself during the day. It's not like he does the whole business in his pants, but it's enough to be able to tell when we do the laundry and to pretty much make him smell like dried pee.

We've taken him to the doc, just to be sure it wasn't a physical issue.. and just as we figured, it's basically that he doesn't give himself enough time to get to the bathroom, or go to the bathroom enough.

He's got a litany of excuses for why he does it (I forgot, I have to sign out of class to go to the bathroom, I didn't think I had to go, etcetc).. but what it boils down to is that he just gets so absorbed in stuff.

We've tried so many kinds of deprivation consequences for this.. no vid games, no TV (as those are the things he gets sucked into the hardest, and when it seems to happen most). This past Saturday, we told him he could play vid games for a couple hours, but if he peed himself while doing it, there would be no more vid games for quite some time. What do you suppose he did? Yup.

As an aside, he's also a nighttime bedwetter, but we don't really associate that with this. We're aware that many boys wet the bed into their teens, and his Dad had the same problem til he was about 14.

He gets bullied enought in school... and if other kids get a whiff of that and he becomes the "stinky kid".. well, I hate to think of how that would go.

Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Suggestions? Things that might actually work?


No offense, but males DO have a bit more space there than females. That is one reason why males are more susceptible to hernias. Also, I'm sure they have a bit more time to react. AND, most boys would NOT want to be humiliated by being called a bed wetter.

As for the bed wetting, maybe you could get one of those alarms to wake him up. You could ALSO limit water and sweets within the few hours before, and ask him to go to the restroom before bed.



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07 Apr 2009, 6:53 pm

Zuken, I guess you didn't read my other posts to this topic.

We have the bed alarm. I didn't mention it, but we do the "no sweets, no water, pee before bed" jazz. We do it every nite. Makes no difference.

And please don't think we call him "bed wetter". We realize that a kid isn't going to to like being referred to that way. I'm simply using it here for economy of words.



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07 Apr 2009, 6:54 pm

Thank you demeus. This is something we've certainly considered, and it seems perfectly sensible. What we hope for is.. the impetus for him to be conscious enough of himself to be like. "hey.. I had better pee now, before it's too late".



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07 Apr 2009, 7:05 pm

First off, this issue comes up fairly regularly. It is NOT, and I repeat NOT!! !! ! a result of your son not caring enough to use the bathroom. It isnt a lack of motivation. As a result, giving him prizes or punishments will NOT!! ! help him to fix this problem. It will just leave him frustrated about getting punished for something he is not doing on purpose. Simply put, it is due to the abnormal wiring in his brain causing his body to not pick up signals correctly. Here is a slightly modified copy of the advice I gave to another parent with a similar problem.

If your son is like me then his internal senses are rather quiet, as in hard to pick up. I can think of multiple occasions where I was wounded and didnt notice it until I saw the blood. I have also gone a day (or two) without eating on multiple occasions because I didnt notice that I was hungry. I have also (when I was in 3rd grade) gotten up, got dressed, went to school feeling perfectly fine, then threw up and passed out. Apparently I was running a high fever on that day but didnt notice it until my body collapsed. My body doesnt give me very strong signals and it is fairly easy to miss them if I am occupied elsewhere.

For example, if you were sitting in a silent, dark room doing nothing, and somebody turned on a quiet fan in the next room, you would immediately notice. But if your sitting in a brightly lit room, watching a loud action movie on TV, and then you wouldnt notice the quiet fan in the next room being turned on. The sound from the fan is the exact same. But the problem is that it is such a faint signal, especially compared to the loud movie which your paying attention to. Its not as though you heard the fan and then decided to ignore it. You were just never able to hear it. Likewise, your son's urge to use the bathroom is likely rather faint. Its not as though he is ignoring his body and deciding that the game is more important. He just didnt hear the quiet bathroom signal above the loud 'noise' in his head. This is especially bothersome if you have had a long day, or in a somewhat stressful situation. That makes it hard to clear your head and as such, it becomes harder to hear the faint signals.

As a result, your son doesnt 'hear' the signal from his body saying to use the bathroom until it is very loud, and by that point it is too late to get to the bathroom in time. Thus your son winds up with his current problem. Likewise, the same problem occurs at night. He is sleeping very soundly, and doesnt get a strong enough signal to wake him up.

The only practical advice I can offer is to help him set up a routine. For example, get him a digital watch that beeps every hour on the hour. This can be his reminder to stop what he is doing, and listen careful to his body for a few seconds. Once he clears his head, he may notice that he needs to use the bathroom, or get a drink, or eat some food, etc. It doesnt have to be on the hour, perhaps just as a step between tasks. For example, when math time ends, and history time starts, that is when he should stop and listen to his body for a few seconds, to see if anything is up. This is what I do. Whenever I finish a small task, I just take a few seconds to listen to my body. For example, I finished 1 of the 30 parts I am designing that day, I will stop and listen. I just finished drinking a can of soda, so I will stop and listen. So, overall I wind up taking a short 5 second pause to listen every 15-30 mins. Obviously this has come with practice. I have grown accustom to doing so, and as such it is easier for me to pick out the signals then when I was younger. Your son may need to empty his mind and think for more then 5 seconds in order to pick anything up.

At first I would start with an external signal, such as a beeping watch. When your wrapped up in your game, it becomes difficult to remember to take a break after every level and listen to your body. Start with an external signal, and then work with him to notice good times for short breaks. For example, he just completed a task, or finished a level, or something. As he grows up he will start to remind himself. It will become a habit of his to stop and listen every so often and as such you wont need an external signal any longer. This is the sort of thing that takes a while to get used to. But it is a good thing to get started on now.



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07 Apr 2009, 9:36 pm

Welcome to WP sparkler22,

I had this problem for several years as well as wetting the bed - the last time when I was eighteen. I was punished, bribed, made fun of, etc. and absolutely nothing worked. Basically I had to have such deep concentration to learn and understand that I was, as you say, too absorbed to pay attention to what my body was telling me. And I'm pretty sure that most of the time having to go just didn't register.

Happy to say I grew out of it - but it took me years longer than most kids. Don't add to your son's embarrassment or lower his self-esteem by making his home environment a negative experience. Don't imagine, like my mother did, that the boy is being obstinate. No one does that in their pants to make a point. If he could change or speed up his development he probably would, but at this point he'll probably have to wait for nature to decide when the have to go signals will start firing for him.

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08 Apr 2009, 9:05 am

Tracker and Zonder, thank you so much for your helpful and well thought-out replies. You've given us mush to think about and some new things to try?

I have a couple other questions for you all who have some experience with this.. Is it common for it to begin at a later age? I ask because my stepson did NOT do this when he was younger.. it became a problem after he had an episode with encopresis (if you don't know, it's basically not being able to hold your poop and pee in because of blockages- it's caused by stress and poor diet) when he was 8. It went on for months and he's been doing the pants peeing ever since. He was living with his birth mother at the time, moving from place to place every few months, changing schools frequently and eating very little.. and what he did eat was pretty much skinless weiners and Ramen noodles. He came to live with us when he was 9, and th encopresis has never been an issue again.

He also aburptly began wetting the bed at about the age of 5. We worry that something may have happened to him to have brought this on.. his mom's place is not safe, to say the least. She always had random people staying with her. We hope that it was just caused by the stress of her continuous moving.. but we worry about it. He's been in counseling and has never spoken about any molestation or anything. But still...

If he's not getting the signals from his body that he has to go, why does he do peepee dances and hold his crotch when he has to go, but still not go? It's always rather disconcerting to see a kid his age doing this. Especially when you're at the grocery store with him or something...

And, lastly.. he DOES like to use "I have to go to the bathroom" during meals.. pretty much EVERY meal. And meals are always a struggle.. little appetite due to the ADHD meds.

Thanks again, everyone!



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08 Apr 2009, 10:33 am

On a sidenote,

I don't know if you know but AD(H)D is very frequently linked to night-time and daytime wetting well into in pre-teens/teens.

You could thus additionally try asking that question in an AD(H)D community if you haven't already, though as far as I know most parents sadly just have to 'wait it out' and try to survive with the 'regular bathroom visits' strategy because professionals find there's nothing wrong with their AD(H)D kids physically and many behavioural strategies don't work despite therapies and meds.


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08 Apr 2009, 12:47 pm

Wetting can be a direct consequence of stress, bulling and abuse, I'd just throw that in there.

Has he seen a proper urologist?