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sbcmetroguy
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12 May 2009, 9:09 am

I have become friends with this girl at work and since getting to know her better I have discovered that we have quite a few things in common ... and I'm not talking about interests, I'm talking about behaviors. So I'm wondering, can females with AS be outgoing and have tons of friends? This girl seems to have major sensory issues, she doesn't think about offending people when she speaks, she is loud, etc but she's not just obnoxious. She's actually quite nice, but yesterday she hurt my feelings because I was trying to explain something to her while someone else was and I was beginning to notice that she couldn't process both conversations at once (much like myself) so I knew her head must be very loud and hurting. Then out of the blue she says to me, "You just shut up! I never can understand what you're saying anyway, you mumble!" She said this on the fly without even thinking, but she never seemed to give it a second thought. We have become such good friends that I was shocked by this and very hurt, but in typical form when yelled at, I just shut my mouth and retreated back to my safe place inside my head. And of the two of us, I am the one she talks to about things and she doesn't like the other person at all. I know she was just overwhelmed and lashed out, I do that often as well but it still bothered me.

Today it's like nothing ever happened, she's just as nice as ever. Anyway last week I REALLY started noticing some of the AS-like symptoms in her and I wrote them down as I noticed them one day. Here is that list: speaks loudly, speaks mind openly, not worried about offending, has problems with many food textures, seems to be overwhelmed and angered easily, most of her friends are males rather than females, she doesn't speak formally but she does seem rather intelligent, she has a degree in art and studied architecture as well (my long-time special interest), constantly touching her hair - looking at individual pieces and playing with it, very clumsy.

On the clumsiness topic, I noticed that when we were walking side-by-side down the hall and talking on our way out to lunch. We bumped into one another, and as I usually do when I am touched I jumped back and apologized. She said "no, I'm sorry it was probably me, I tend to walk into people and things a lot." She was the head cheerleader in high school and she's this clumsy? Really? Wow, I'm surprised. But she was sincere, and I told her about how I have always walked into my friends because I can't walk straight. Anyway but she has TONS of friends. While MOST of her friends are male, she has plenty of female friends as well. She fell into drugs in college and was the life of the party. She's very attractive so every guy likes her, so she gets a lot of attention but she doesn't seem to crave it. She seems repulsed by most guys who come by and hit on her.

Anyway, any thoughts? Would she have as many friends as she does if she had AS? Anything else I should look for in her as a female with AS? I realize it manifests itself much differently in females than males so I am not sure what to look for in her.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 May 2009, 9:27 am

Based on my own experience, it doesn't manifest differently in females.
My guess is the reason she has a lot of friends is she has found people who are willing to meet her half way. She's a nice person and prolly does nice things for people. In general, Aspies are very giving and willing to work for the common good and if they are lucky enough to find people who will not exploit the small amount of difference and use it as excuses to create devaluations, they can have lots of friends and be popular. The key is finding open minded, intelligent people who are willing to meet you half way.



sbcmetroguy
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12 May 2009, 9:33 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Based on my own experience, it doesn't manifest differently in females.
My guess is the reason she has a lot of friends is she has found people who are willing to meet her half way. She's a nice person and prolly does nice things for people. In general, Aspies are very giving and willing to work for the common good and if they are lucky enough to find people who will not exploit the small amount of difference and use it as excuses to create devaluations, they can have lots of friends and be popular. The key is finding open minded, intelligent people who are willing to meet you half way.


Wow, interesting perspective. All I ever read about AS in females is that it manifests much differently between males and females. I guess it could be just as much as it's different between me and my older brother (who also likely has it). She IS very giving and friendly, and does seem to work hard to keep her friends. But she really hurt me yesterday and I was shocked. But at the same time it made me reflect on myself and how I often hurt people unintentionally when I hit "overload". I lash out, yell, cry, just do whatever I can to try and stop the intense feeling.

And I am not sure I should ever mention AS to her. She knows I'm odd and quirky but she doesn't realize that I see her the same way. I see much of myself in her. But she doesn't know I have AS, she only knows about the ADHD and the fact that I was thought last year to be Bi-Polar. At times I wonder if she doesn't think I'm schizophrenic, but again I am afraid to mention AS to her. And I certainly am afraid to discuss with her the possibility of her having it. Another thing I just thought of because I just now saw it, since I'm not naming her I will say it, she picks her nose a lot and openly. Even when she notices that I saw, she just finishes. I do this as well and it's embarrassing to me, I am afraid for her to see me do it ... but she seems to have no problems.



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12 May 2009, 9:47 am

I have read about it manifesting differently between the genders but based on my own experience, I dunno if I can entirely agree with that statement. I have always been a "masculine" thinker. I think it could have something to do with AS. People online cannot tell if I am male or female. IRL they realize I am not male because they can see with their own eyes but that "masculine mind" is so obvious online where no one can see me first. I think this is a part of my AS. It has made my mind more masculine than average for a female.
Does your friend have certain masculine qualities that you can discern, psychologically? Her being so forward, saying she can't understand you because you mumble, can be interpretted as a masculine attribute. Women, traditionally, are supposed to be polite and not so direct in criticism.
It seems like part of having AS in women would be this "masculine mind" so, if you know a female who "thinks like a man" maybe it's a hint that she might be AS?
I'm not saying it is, in fact, a masculine mind, it's the way of thinking in AS that makes the mind appear masculine because we tend to associate the AS qualities with males in our society while females are thought of to be more polite, lie more about other's faults to spare their feelings, etc.
I'm sorry she hurt your feelings by being so direct. What you could do if she does it again is say something like "oh, I do that from time to time. Thanks for pointing it out" and try to make the best of it. I have been told I mumble by my mother countless times. I don't think their intention is to hurt our feelings. What they want is to understand what we say but that way of putting it makes us feel like we are being blamed. It's accusatory.



sbcmetroguy
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12 May 2009, 10:37 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have read about it manifesting differently between the genders but based on my own experience, I dunno if I can entirely agree with that statement. I have always been a "masculine" thinker. I think it could have something to do with AS. People online cannot tell if I am male or female. IRL they realize I am not male because they can see with their own eyes but that "masculine mind" is so obvious online where no one can see me first. I think this is a part of my AS. It has made my mind more masculine than average for a female.
Does your friend have certain masculine qualities that you can discern, psychologically? Her being so forward, saying she can't understand you because you mumble, can be interpretted as a masculine attribute. Women, traditionally, are supposed to be polite and not so direct in criticism.
It seems like part of having AS in women would be this "masculine mind" so, if you know a female who "thinks like a man" maybe it's a hint that she might be AS?
I'm not saying it is, in fact, a masculine mind, it's the way of thinking in AS that makes the mind appear masculine because we tend to associate the AS qualities with males in our society while females are thought of to be more polite, lie more about other's faults to spare their feelings, etc.
I'm sorry she hurt your feelings by being so direct. What you could do if she does it again is say something like "oh, I do that from time to time. Thanks for pointing it out" and try to make the best of it. I have been told I mumble by my mother countless times. I don't think their intention is to hurt our feelings. What they want is to understand what we say but that way of putting it makes us feel like we are being blamed. It's accusatory.


Yes! In fact, she is quite masculine in the way she acts and perceives the world. I have noticed that about her since the first week I met her. But physically, she's one good-looking girl ... nothing masculine about her looks at all, except that some days she comes in with very little makeup on or her hair not made, looking like she just rolled out of bed. That, again, to me is a masculine quality. Good thing for her, she's cute no matter what so she's able to pull that off. :lol: But yes, very tomboyish in interests, behaviors, etc. But then you hear her talk about her wedding plans and wow... she turns into a girl! Though she's not really bad feminine, her stepmother drives her nuts with all this 'princess' crap she wants for the wedding that the girl herself couldn't care less about.



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12 May 2009, 10:43 am

I've read a lot of literature on the subject and I am also a female with AS who is very feminine.

We manifest differently in some ways. We can appear more social, due to societal pressures to try to compensate. We can have "normalized" obsessions, like collecting and categorizing recipes. We can be highly imaginative and retreat into dream worlds. Not all, but some are able to do this.

These are the main differences. We share the sensory issues, balance problems, etc. but just like with men, not all women have them.


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12 May 2009, 10:51 am

I like to call it the "AS way of thinking" and call it "neutral", not assigning it a gender. I think it's obvious in everyone who has AS, male or female. It's easiest to compare it to the stereotypical way males are supposed to think because it shares some of the qualities we associate with male gender stereotypes, very forward, we can be loudmouths, we say what we think regardless of how it's percieved (in some cases, depending on what we have learned based on experience) and we can be very analytical but that doesn't mean women with AS cannot apply this AS mind to the stereotypical female gender subjects like weddings, or whatever. We can take our AS ways of thinking and apply them to any subject, regardless of gender.
I think everyone with AS has this way of thinking regardless of gender and it's basis is the spectrum and what we've inherited.



sbcmetroguy
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12 May 2009, 11:03 am

I have always heard of AS as referred to by saying "extreme male brain" and I can see where that could be true. In many ways I am like this, but in other ways I am feminine. I have never been attracted to males but some qualities about me can be mistaken for homosexuality. It's usually once a female gets to know me, though, because I break down my walls and allow my naturally sensitive self to show. I'm not afraid to shed a tear around a female friend, though I don't want to be viewed as totally weak. I want them to know that if they need me, I am here for them. Anyway, this girl seems to have a very male brain. She is marrying a "man's man" guy who works in the oil industry and she shoots his guns and all that. And this is a city girl through and through, nothing country about her, she just has a very male mindset.



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12 May 2009, 11:10 am

You could say that qualifies for "eccentric" because she is doing things that are not stereotypical female behaviours. For all we know, Annie Oakley could have been AS?
That's not saying all women with AS are gonna be tomboys or care about planes, trains and automobiles but I think it does mean women with AS are gonna have the same way of thinking as the men and aren't going to be too different from them. If you are female and aren't psychologically stereotypical, you stand out, even in a dress. People notice and say "She doesn't act like the other girls" Or, "I've never known someone's daughter who acted that way" I've heard that kind of thing all my life. That is why it's so hard for me to accept the "different presentation" argument. It's because I know what it's like to not fit in with the females because of the "AS way of thinking" that is not that of the stereotypical girl's.
Perhaps you can make a connection between tomboys and girls with AS if the tomboy persona is utilized to disguise the AS to some extent...however...I wasn't a tomboy until I got around a cousin who was because my family made me wear these dresses all the time and I was raised wearing those so you couldn't really call me a tomboy.



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12 May 2009, 11:20 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You could say that qualifies for "eccentric" because she is doing things that are not stereotypical female behaviours. For all we know, Annie Oakley could have been AS?
That's not saying all women with AS are gonna be tomboys or care about planes, trains and automobiles but I think it does mean women with AS are gonna have the same way of thinking as the men and aren't going to be too different from them. If you are female and aren't psychologically stereotypical, you stand out, even in a dress. People notice and say "She doesn't act like the other girls" Or, "I've never known someone's daughter who acted that way" I've heard that kind of thing all my life. That is why it's so hard for me to accept the "different presentation" argument. It's because I know what it's like to not fit in with the females because of the "AS way of thinking" that is not that of the stereotypical girl's.


Kind of like how I mentioned that she'll just start picking her nose and not even give a crap what anyone thinks. I think it's funny, because even I will try to play it off it she happens to see me doing it.

Speaking of seeing me. Now this is something I have started attributing to my having AS even though I am not sure if it really is. I have a problem with just staring at people. I often end up in confrontations over this and it makes me nervous. It's not something I can help, it's just something I do. And if I think someone is attractive it's like I can't stop looking at them. She often catches me looking at her and I always wondered if it bothered her but often she will just smile and not say a word. I even catch her staring at me sometimes in just the same way. We'll lock eyes for a second and it's awkward because it's like we were both just busted staring at one another. This staring thing is something else we seem to have in common. Not sure if it's just that we feel comfortable enough around one another or what, but we both seem to do it ... to one another at least. But in public, I even stare at grown men. Not intentionally, but I am so weird with eye contact that when I lock onto someone I don't know if I should stare or look away. I think "if I look away do they view me as easy prey? But then again if I stare at them they will think I am being aggressive." This always gets me so I HATE, HATE, HATE when I find myself staring at someone ... particularly another guy. Because first and foremost I don't want them thinking I'm gay. Come on, I live in a very conservative part of the south ... if they thought I were gay, I'd probably be killed or harmed.



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12 May 2009, 1:26 pm

in the basic areas of disability or difference. Communication, social skills, stereotyped behaviors. It's just that so many clinicians get into diagnosing based on particular types of manifestations. Like assuming one must be obsessed with something technological. Or that one must be socially withdrawn. Sure, some aspies are socially outgoing but manage to miss social cues and so they come across as loud or rude. I was obsessed with dogs and cats, with musicians and movies, with reading. That didn't seem so odd. Of course, it is getting to the aspie level when it takes over one's interests completely and when you talk about it 24/7.



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12 May 2009, 2:31 pm

:P It sounds to me like yyou have a crush on this girl and she might fancy you too, AS or no AS



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12 May 2009, 2:38 pm

LipstickKiller wrote:
:P It sounds to me like yyou have a crush on this girl and she might fancy you too, AS or no AS


No... I'm married and she's engaged. Nothing like that at all, purely innocent. Just friends.



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12 May 2009, 2:53 pm

i can be loud, rude and i am a masculine thinker.
I do not fit the stereotypical "male" cliche of an AS man.

The clinical psychologist i see did say - a specialist in ASD's - did say he could tell within the first session I was definitely a woman with an ASD.

I am also very long winded in my verbal exchanges - go off on intellectual tangents that are unfathomable to the majority of people.

People with ASD's can have people in their lives and can know many people. they can even be popular. But their relationships with people will always be kinked and slightly out of the ordinary and they may not actually "connect" in an intuitive manner that is the norm.

I actually "collect" people in my life. They are always peripheral and chewed up and spat out - i hate to say. and that is because i do not have theory of mind or imbue the relationship with the kind of emotional import others might. I can appear to. and of course, people get sick of me once they start realising i am never going to turn up to 95% of invitations extended my way.

This friend of yours sounds quite interesting...the kind of friend someone should definitely have!