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Ragtime
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16 Jul 2009, 11:14 am

beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
(Always do your stretches before any exercise, to avoid soreness the next day.)
Doing them before the workout decreases the contractile strength of the muscle so your workout won't be as productive because your muscles can't work as hard.


Maybe, but when you've stretched before exercising, you'll be able to exercise the next day as well, thus boosting your muscles' work amount above just one day's non-stretched exercise, because you won't be hindered by the excessive soreness that occurs for days after an exercise for which you did not stretch. I know whereof I speak. Not stretching delays my next workout by 2 to 3 days depending on the strenuousness of the particular exercise. Which burns more calories: 1. an exercise routine done 1 day out of a 3-day period and without having stretched, or 2. the same exercise routine done all three days, and each done after stretching? The answer is obvious.
You obviously missed what i was saying. I didn't say don't stretch, i said stretch after exercising.


You directly implied stretching only afterwards:
beef_bourito wrote:
you should leave the stretching to afterward.


So, for the second time now, you're been incorrect in your response to my post.
Will you make it a third time now, or will you admit you were wrong both times?

My brother is a fitness expert who has performed full daily workout routines for 30+ years, studying the science behind it as he went, and says your claim about not stretching beforehand is preposterous, including your assertion that stretching afterwards is better then doing so before exercising. He wondered if you also thought sprinters' trainers recommend their clients bathe in ice water before running, rather than warm water. Stretching warms up your muscles and increase blood flow to them in preparation for exercise.

So you're just flat wrong. Get over it.

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you're still stretching, you're just not decreasing the effectiveness of your workout by doing it beforehand.


Also untrue. You clearly are not familiar with the science regarding exercise.

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you will never see an olympic rower or runner (not including sprinters, they might stretch before, i'm not sure) stretching before a race because it weakens their muscles. these athletes also have multiple races so they need to be fit for subsequent competitions but they won't stretch before racing.


I'm working out, not racing. Those pursuits have totally different goals, and their methods differ accordingly.


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Ragtime
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16 Jul 2009, 11:27 am

beef_bourito wrote:
My coach has a master's degree in kinesiology, she's worked with national team coaches to develop various training methods, and she tells us not to stretch before workouts or before races, but emphasizes that we should stretch afterwards.


What does your coach recommend for healing muscles that are sore two to three days after I exercise after forgetting to stretch first? I personally prefer not going through life miserably sore, but rather experiencing the painlessness of the following days because I remembered to stretch first. And no, warm water and massage don't cure this soreness; the damage is already done because I didn't stretch first.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 16 Jul 2009, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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16 Jul 2009, 12:00 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
Being ninety pounds lighter has made me feel better in many ways, but it too led to depression. I didn't 'look' right or like the person I knew in the mirror, which was distressing. My body had trouble compensating for the loss, so there was significant pain until I rebuilt and rebalanced some of my muscle groups. Losing 30 pounds in 45 days is a goal that I would not endorse; a healthier and more practical regimen to me would be 30 pounds in 4 months. Still rapid, but the metabolism and physiology has a chance to adjust in step with the loss.

Well, you don't have to endorse it. It's working. I'm feeling better, I'm more mentally focused, and the guy in the mirror is looking more and more like my younger self, and my wife agrees I'm looking much better. And I'm not losing 90 pounds, I'm losing a total of about 40. I've lost 15 already, within about three weeks, and I feel great. I have roughly 25 more to go at this point. I don't think looking and feeling great is going to make me depressed.
But I guess it depends on how much the dieting individual loves rich food. I enjoy it, but anyone who's losing weight is still allowed rich food once in a while. It's not like we have to say goodbye to pizza, lasagna, and chocolate cake forever -- just for a few weeks at a time.

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Also - the stretching -is- more beneficial after exercise than before, as stretching a cold muscle is as likely if not more to cause damage (think of stretching a cold rubber band vs. a warm one), and the stretching post-exercise helps release the lactic acid build up in the muscles themselves.


For that reason, my brother incorporates a warm-up exercise, such as pedaling an exercise bicycle, before he stretches (as I will too, now that he mentioned it to me). But that has nothing to do with how beneficial stretching after exercise is as contrasted with before.


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makuranososhi
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16 Jul 2009, 2:13 pm

The decision is yours; just speaking my mind on the matter. You may notice a plateau effect in your fourth or fifth week of weight loss, which is normal... generally, I find this my cue to shift my diet somewhat (not intensify, but change the focus and content) to maintain weight loss. Your comments about food love are curious, as that was not a part of what I had addressed. I enjoy food, but instead of limiting myself to once a month, I just have smaller portions and keep myself perpetually active instead of setting blocks of exercise. Different means to the same intended end.

You're looking at depression from a psychological perspective; I am addressing it from the physiological (hormone/metabolism/neuro-effect) side. Changing the body that much in a short time will impact you in a number of ways.

You hadn't mentioned the warm-up exercise before. Ideally, it sounds like best regimen would be a warm-up ride, short stretches, exercise, then deep stretches... provides the best of all options. I would suggest that warming the muscle beforehand is more essential than stretching it, but that stretching can be a great form of warming if done correctly.


M.


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beef_bourito
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16 Jul 2009, 3:04 pm

Ragtime wrote:
You directly implied stretching only afterwards:
beef_bourito wrote:
you should leave the stretching to afterward.

yes... that was my point...

Ragtime wrote:
So you're just flat wrong. Get over it.
You have yet to cite one credible source backing your claims, i don't want to clog up this thread with a pissing contest, if you want to offer any sound argument, including some sources, then feel free to PM me.



Ragtime
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16 Jul 2009, 3:14 pm

beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
You directly implied stretching only afterwards:
beef_bourito wrote:
you should leave the stretching to afterward.

yes... that was my point...


What was your point? You're implying two mutually exclusive things, so which one do you want to stick to?
Should we stretch only after exercising, or also before?

beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
So you're just flat wrong. Get over it.
You have yet to cite one credible source backing your claims, i don't want to clog up this thread with a pissing contest, if you want to offer any sound argument, including some sources, then feel free to PM me.


Wrong again. I cited my brother's 30+ years' workout experience and research on the subject.


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beef_bourito
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16 Jul 2009, 3:28 pm

Ragtime wrote:
beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
You directly implied stretching only afterwards:
beef_bourito wrote:
you should leave the stretching to afterward.

yes... that was my point...


What was your point? You're implying two mutually exclusive things, so which one do you want to stick to?
Should we stretch only after exercising, or also before?

beef_bourito wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
So you're just flat wrong. Get over it.
You have yet to cite one credible source backing your claims, i don't want to clog up this thread with a pissing contest, if you want to offer any sound argument, including some sources, then feel free to PM me.


Wrong again. I cited my brother's 30+ years' workout experience and research on the subject.

I'm not going to continue the argument here, I sent you a PM.