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McTell
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20 May 2009, 4:26 pm

I've realised that I know precious little about the arguments for and against censorship. I think I'm against censorship as a general concept, but I can see areas where I wouldn't be against censorship (I'm really not a fan of pornography, for instance).

So, I would like to hear some opinions on censorship.

(I realise this original post sucks, but, as I have said, I'm pretty ignorant on the whole subject. I thought of just opening with the words *post censored* but I figured that could be seen as spam)



Orwell
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20 May 2009, 4:34 pm

There is no objective basis for censorship. Therefore, if we allow the possibility of censorship, we are leaving it vastly open to abuse.

That's the simple utilitarian argument against it, I also had a more elaborate ideological reason for opposing censorship... maybe DentArthurDent will drop by.

In the end, I oppose all censorship in any form. Bring on the hard-core porn and the hate speech.


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anna-banana
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20 May 2009, 4:38 pm

I don't like the idea of my government treating me like a kid. I want to be able to choose my own information.


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McTell
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20 May 2009, 4:43 pm

Orwell wrote:
There is no objective basis for censorship. Therefore, if we allow the possibility of censorship, we are leaving it vastly open to abuse.


I think this is true, but in war situations I could see it being important for national security to restrict certain information (not even necessarily information of large defeats and imminent dangers).

I can imagine a case where a journalist has managed to gain information on a secret weapon belonging to their country, and wishes to report about it despite the certainty that then the other country in the war would learn of it and take precautions against it.

The country would likely be against this information coming to light and so take efforts to prevent this happening. Why shouldn't this kind of censorship happen?



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20 May 2009, 6:24 pm

my view is one of the few things I agree on with Orwell. Take this from Voltaire "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say" as much as we hate certain things, we must allow all forms of speech, no matter how hateful, to exist least we start a slide into oppression.


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claire-333
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20 May 2009, 6:44 pm

McTell wrote:
I think this is true, but in war situations I could see it being important for national security to restrict certain information (not even necessarily information of large defeats and imminent dangers).

I can imagine a case where a journalist has managed to gain information on a secret weapon belonging to their country, and wishes to report about it despite the certainty that then the other country in the war would learn of it and take precautions against it.

The country would likely be against this information coming to light and so take efforts to prevent this happening. Why shouldn't this kind of censorship happen?
Ahh...thanks for getting me all twisted up on the censorship discussion again. I tend to bounce back and forth between no censorship at all and kind of floaty on certain things. I have always agreed with laws concerning harassment and violent threats. Now, I also have to agree with you there are certain situtations where it is necessary such as with soldiers and other areas where confidentiallity is needed. However, these situations are handled with legal agreements.



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20 May 2009, 6:45 pm

I agree that there should be no censorship, no hate-speech laws, nothing. If people are allowed to speak freely without fear of legal consequences, their true colours will show and all things in society will naturally fall into place, creating a greater harmony than what is the case today. We must let things have their course and allow even the unpleasant oppinions to be heard.



claire-333
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20 May 2009, 6:54 pm

Are there hate speech laws where you live? In the US we have laws against defamation of character and violent threats, but advocating violence and threats of violence are two different things.



McTell
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20 May 2009, 7:25 pm

Is something considered censorship only if it is organised by the state? I'm asking because I wonder if, for example, attempts by a private company to prevent its ex-employees from releasing information that would give it a bad name are considered censorship.

Other such things that I'm not sure about include: parents preventing their children from viewing content that they have deemed unsuitable; laws which exist to prevent newspapers spreading lies; autocensors in private forums. By wondering whether or not they are censorship I am not making any comment on whether I think these things are a good idea or not.

I'm tending to think these are forms of censorship, but I can see their usefulnesses.



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20 May 2009, 7:27 pm

claire333 wrote:
Are there hate speech laws where you live? In the US we have laws against defamation of character and violent threats, but advocating violence and threats of violence are two different things.


It's illegal to say "People X is a lesser race" as well as "I'm in favor of genocide of people X". Even saying things like "Culture A is inferior to Culture B" can get you in legal trouble.



MattShizzle
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20 May 2009, 8:07 pm

I'm against censorship period. I even think in order to be allowed access from the US - or certainly to have a server based here that websites should have to have a certain ammount of free speech. I also don't think companies should be allowed to discipline their employees for things done not on the clock.



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20 May 2009, 8:16 pm

This is my problem in trusting the media...because of so much censorship here in the U.S. >_<


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McTell
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20 May 2009, 8:20 pm

MattShizzle wrote:
I'm against censorship period. I even think in order to be allowed access from the US - or certainly to have a server based here that websites should have to have a certain ammount of free speech.


What if this forum were infiltrated by a horde of trolls who brewed havoc within the Haven section? Do you believe they should be allowed their say, when their words are designed only to disrupt the comfort provided there?

Nevermind the fact that if the USA were to institute such a policy then other countries would do the same. The policies would be incompatible and it would lessen the internet's great power to connect people.

MattShizzle wrote:
I also don't think companies should be allowed to discipline their employees for things done not on the clock.


Imagine, if you would, that there was a scriptwriter for a hugely popular television series, who in her spare time released the upcoming scripts for the next series to a tabloid in exchange for a large amount of money? Should she go unpunished for doing this outwith her time at work?



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20 May 2009, 8:24 pm

What I find most peculiar is pseudocensorship where some words are forbidden except when the vowels are are substituted for with asterisks. It does not fool anybody and in my experience even very young children are very familiar with and delight in using these words to shock naive adults. I cannot figure what it accomplishes.



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21 May 2009, 1:18 pm

Zoonic wrote:

It's illegal to say "People X is a lesser race" as well as "I'm in favor of genocide of people X". Even saying things like "Culture A is inferior to Culture B" can get you in legal trouble.


In which country is this the case?

It is not the United States (for which I am grateful). Sanitized Speech is not Free Speech.

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MattShizzle
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21 May 2009, 1:31 pm

Generally in the US the only speech that is illegal is inciting violence, false advertising/fraud, and lying under oath. Slander and libel could be added but that will get you sued, not arrested.