HankPym
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 355
Location: SF Bay Area
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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nominalist
Member of the Baha'i Faith
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Age: 57
Posts: 2299
Location: The Kansas suburbs of Kansas City (originally from NYC)
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Ticker
Cage Free
Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 3139
Location: Having tea & biscuits with Yoda
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is what occupational therapy is. Or at least part of it. That is learning how to react properly, what to say and when. I'm in the middle of a program to get OT even though I am a aging Aspie and not a whippersnapper. I was also told they need to teach me some organizational skills.
I suggest going to your public library and reading all those "how to be a gentleman" books. Yes I know you are a lady. But those gentleman books are a source of good social behavior skills and proper conversational skills. They have more books for men on that than women. Though you might look in the women's studies section for manners and etiquette books just in case.
I also suggest reading the American columns in newspapers like Dear Abby because it can give you clues to proper behaviors. You can find columns such as Dear Abby online without buying a newspaper.
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There are No Stupid Questions. But there are a LOT of Inquisitive Idiots. |
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Hey_You
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 28, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been in similar situations as described in the first post. I decided to "study" the people around me to better respond to them. Though, I would still get confused a lot. I just didn't know how to react and people would always "exploit" that about me. I tried not show I was different, because society around me just kinda demanded it -- different is bad. So, I studied people and yet people still confuse me. I have learned that I can't act like NTs so I don't anymore. Society needs to change, not me. |
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Brittany2907
Neopets Addict
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 4920
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Liverbird wrote: | | I have a slightly opposite problem. I often don't realise that whatever I just did wasn't an NT thing to do until it's over and someone comes up and tells me. Then I obsess about it in my head forever. It makes me crazy. Of course, then my brain takes over and builds a social map for that situation. Then I only say half an embarassing thing the next time! |
Ditto.
I don't realise that something I did or said was "not normal" until someone tells me. Then i feel like a complete idiot and like you said Liverbird, start obsessing over it. I will replay it in my mind and try and figure out what I could have done differently.
Usually I will never go back to that same place though because I will be too ashamed. Unlike you Liverbird, I don't have the confidence to try again.
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I = Vegan!
Animals = Friends. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 15238
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | | I think you should speak for yourself. Not everyone lives in the USA and not everyone lives in a country where people with AS get gov't help. If I don't make the utmost effort to feign NT, I'll die in the streets soon. |
Amen, sister! I am also wear "The Mask" but it is not who I am. I just have perfected my NT act to put others at their ease. NTs will forgive you almost anything if you make them feel at ease about it. |
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ToadOfSteel
unlovable
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 6716
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I've gotten pretty good at faking NT for short periods of time (usually the span of the average work day). When I am in this "faking NT" mode (which pretty much engages whenever I am in public), I can hold small talk, show inflection in my voice, emulate limited body language, make eye contact for split seconds at a time, and control my frustration outbursts. In addition, the one visually blatant stim that I do (flapping both hands behind the head) is slowed down to the point where it's just the hands behind my head, which gives off the appeareance of someone who is really calm and relaxed in a given situation.
There are some drawbacks, however. If I am forced to remain in public for more than 12 hours, I get burned out really quickly. It also doesnt stop the panic attacks I may have at any given point (although I remain aware enough to be able to excuse myself and let it run its course). Finally, this whole setup will immediately fail if I find myself in a romantic context.
And while this helps me get through the day, it still all feels like one huge lie (as other people with similar experiences have been saying). |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 15238
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: Re: re: on faking NT |
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| nominalist wrote: | | SKOREAPV83 wrote: | | I REFUSE to try to act NT! I have AS & I WILL ALWAYS act like I have AS! I used to be able to fake being NT, but I no longer can. |
Everyone, IMO, is a performer - AS or NT. However, the performance just comes more naturally to NTs. |
unless one of the 'little quirks' of that AS happens to be mimicry or interpretation it comes quite naturally. However the trick is to not believe the performance.
Merle
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“Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.” – Albert Camus |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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The most difficult is in important situations, such as a conversation with the boss.
When NTs want to say A, they say B. If one said A directly, it would be interpreted as C.
Example:
Boss: Why do you work so many hours? Why do you have so much work?
Me: [........don't know what to say, because I only know the A answer ("Well, because you fired Sue and now I'm doing my job + hers"). But if I say the A answer, he'll think I'm weird/rude. So I try desperately to find the B answer which will make him interpret A (which is what I want to convey). I can't find it, so I end up either agreeing with him that there's no reason why I work so much, or I just shut up, or I say some A answer that gets me the weird/rude label.]
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 15238
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| ToadOfSteel wrote: | I've gotten pretty good at faking NT for short periods of time (usually the span of the average work day). When I am in this "faking NT" mode (which pretty much engages whenever I am in public), I can hold small talk, show inflection in my voice, emulate limited body language, make eye contact for split seconds at a time, and control my frustration outbursts. In addition, the one visually blatant stim that I do (flapping both hands behind the head) is slowed down to the point where it's just the hands behind my head, which gives off the appeareance of someone who is really calm and relaxed in a given situation.
There are some drawbacks, however. If I am forced to remain in public for more than 12 hours, I get burned out really quickly. It also doesnt stop the panic attacks I may have at any given point (although I remain aware enough to be able to excuse myself and let it run its course). Finally, this whole setup will immediately fail if I find myself in a romantic context.
And while this helps me get through the day, it still all feels like one huge lie (as other people with similar experiences have been saying). |
It is a huge lie and we should be commended for slogging along day afterday. I go to the HR and check out the key for the 'sick' room and have a cool water drink and a couple of asprin for about 15 minutes in the dark on the couch. Then I return the key and sign back onto the phones and take that next call.
Merle |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 15238
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Greentea wrote: | The most difficult is in important situations, such as a conversation with the boss.
When NTs want to say A, they say B. If one said A directly, it would be interpreted as C.
Example:
Boss: Why do you work so many hours? Why do you have so much work?
Me: [........don't know what to say, because I only know the A answer ("Well, because you fired Sue and now I'm doing my job + hers"). But if I say the A answer, he'll think I'm weird/rude. So I try desperately to find the B answer which will make him interpret A (which is what I want to convey). I can't find it, so I end up either agreeing with him that there's no reason why I work so much, or I just shut up, or I say some A answer that gets me the weird/rude label.] |
The woman with the mouse infestation that was raising the abandoned grand child was pondering why 'her girl' seemed to have a hidden sadness and was recently being very clingy and afraid to go into the front room. I suggested to her the child might be missing her parents and scared of the mice being trapped and left in various forms to die.
She dismissed my ideas as 'that was weeks ago about the mice' and that the parent thing 'had been dealt with ages ago.
so I shut up because I have said my peace/piece and move on.
Merle |
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poopylungstuffing
Lolliwink Slayer
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 7618
Location: Snapdragon Ridge
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| I generally can't...ok..maybe when I have to be around Flakey's family....and I guess I need to when dealing with our prospective new landlords...but I will still pace wildly about...stim alot...barely make eye contact....say things that I probably shouldn't....cringe when going over the daunting details and whatnot......it is very draining.....i an not very good at it....i dread these occasions and when in them, am consumed with the desire to flee from them. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 62
Posts: 15238
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| poopylungstuffing wrote: | | I generally can't...ok..maybe when I have to be around Flakey's family....and I guess I need to when dealing with our prospective new landlords...but I will still pace wildly about...stim alot...barely make eye contact....say things that I probably shouldn't....cringe when going over the daunting details and whatnot......it is very draining.....i an not very good at it....i dread these occasions and when in them, am consumed with the desire to flee from them. |
and I find my quality of life is dependent on how much ***** I will take.
Merle
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nominalist
Member of the Baha'i Faith
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Age: 57
Posts: 2299
Location: The Kansas suburbs of Kansas City (originally from NYC)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: Re: re: on faking NT |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
unless one of the 'little quirks' of that AS happens to be mimicry or interpretation it comes quite naturally. However the trick is to not believe the performance.
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Hi, Merle,
Yes. Perhaps being aware of the "dramaturgy" of life is, in some cases, one of the advantages of being an aspie.
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages
-- Shakespeare
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29 domains/26 sites/9 books: http://markfoster.net
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left nominalism/back to Critical Realism |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87137
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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