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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 755
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: aspergers and need for control? |
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Anyone have any ideas about the idea of "exerting control"????
I took my son to a psychologist in town and he kept bringing up this idea about my son's need to control his environment. It seemed like the implication was that my son's behavior was manipulative and an intentional desire to control people/things/events.
I do think it's called survival. My son's attempt to fit in, try out lines, roles and personas he's seen on tv or in society. He mimics and spouts off whatever he's heard/knows in order to communicate with people. We live in a materialistic society. My son has absorbed this and had a fixation on money--not to accumulate it but rather to feel it in his hands and carry it with him like his other fixations. He had 19 dollars. He took it out of his pocket each day and smelled it and fanned it and laid it out on the table. He talked about it to exhaustion. He slept with it nearby (like his other interests). This particular interest waxes and wanes. He's tried to photo copy it etc. He was immediately drawn to a couple used cell phones that were sitting on the shelf in the doctor's office (they weren't working--maybe he put them there as a plant) and so my son picked them up and inquired about them. Then tried to buy them from doctor saying "I'll pay you extra." He didn't really mean this. I knew it. He had no intention of buying cell phones or parting with any of his ninteen dollars. He was simply trying out a part, a role, something he's seen in our society, he was attempting to communicate with the psychologist. I guess the psych felt this was my son's desire to control the situation. Bizarre.
I disagreed with psych's interepretation o fmy son. He thinks we need to work on his "exerting control" issues. I asked how and he said to mirror back his behavior. What!? My son's stimming, fixating, OCD, transition troubles and attending are not due to his desire to control others or events. I don't know about this.
Needless to say, my son likes this pychologist--I think because he's interested in him and wants to know more about hypnosis (another interest of his). He laid right down on the coach and was ready to go. So, I made one more appointment.
Any ideas/comments/experiences? I didn't think kids on the spectrum were controlling but more naive and vulnerable due to their misread of social niceties and inability to detect nuances in language.
My son appears saavy and articulate and surprises people with his ability to talk about mature ideas. BUT, he is only eight-years old and does not understand the connotative meanings behind words/phrases. I think he needs to learn tact and what/what not to say because people will come to believe he supports what he says and it tells people what kind of person you are. He doesn't connect his beliefs to what he says! You can't just say something for the sake of saying it because you remember it and have overheard others use it in conversation. Many times, it's so out of context!
equinn |
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BugsMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I would love to read some responses to this, because I have a similar issue with my son and his teacher.
Equinn, my son has a fascination with money too. He likes dimes especially. |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2540
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I've heard this interpretation of "need to control his environment". Usually it means just that, you need to control your environment. Yeah, it overflows into expecting people to do and say a particular thing. But that's different from "manipulating people".
I think they can bleed into each other. Again, different from intending to control and manipulate others.
Like having a schedule, wearing certain clothes, eating certain foods. Obviously a child depends on others to provide this stuff and help maintain it.
I also think autistics misunderstand authoritative roles and confuse it with controlling personalities or roles. So, if I scold my son for something, he may copy that same behavior. He may "get mad" with my choices and "send me to my room" or threaten to call the cops. It comes across as controlling but he's just copying what he hears and often misunderstanding family rules. |
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busgrl
Emu Egg
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 5
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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bugsmom--
I have a story about dimes--too long to go into, but after this one incident with a dime in the grocery store, I started finding dimes everywhere in the oddest places. Still, to this day, dimes show up in the dryer, on the floor, in the bottom of my drawer--you name it. Coincidence? I don't know. Then, one day, I came across an old photograph in the newspaper, famous photo, of John D. Rockefeller giving a dime to a boy and the caption read "oil magnet and philanthropist...gives a dime to a child..." It's a great photo. It sits on my mantel.
I'll be awaiting responses as well.
equinn |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| If I had been your son who had done that with the cell phones, it wouldn't even have crossed my mind that that was a way to control the environment. Rather, I would have seen it as a way to become friends with the psychologist - sort of like small talk |
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ster
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: new england
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| how much experience does the psych have with kids on the spectrum ? |
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Scramjet
Sea Gull
Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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When the psyc suggests your son has a need to be "in control", does he mean "in command" in the sense that your son wants to be "the boss" or the one that has the "last say"? Or is it simply that your son needs, or at least badly wants, to know/see/experience/get an overview of, everything in his environment? As an aspie myself, I don't recognize the former in me, but I definitely had the latter as a kid...
Maybe a buddy who is a virtual "Wikipedia on two legs" would be the top thing for him?  |
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SilverProteus
The years, no doubt, have changed me.
Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 7154
Location: Fleet Street.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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I did that and was accused of being a "sociopathic manipulator of people" (and the funny thing is - by a manipulator!)
Some people just don't really get things, no matter how many times you try to tell them.
_________________
"How about a shave?"
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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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First of all--Thank you all for the wonderful responses. You've helped tremendously. Here's my response to your respones:
1. experience with spectrum:
The psych said he did have experience with kids with Aspergers when I asked, but I do think more and more psychs with private practice might add this to their repetoire of experience to attract more clients as autism/AS has become a thing today.
2. what type of control?
I interpreted it as the former--bossy, commanding of the situation, but maybe I misinterpreted what he meant. I do see my son as having to get a piece of everything and claim it, digest it, touch it and know it. But, I don't think he is bossy or commanding at all! He is quick to apologize, quick to use the proper tone and manners when prompted. A person who is bossy and controlling is more oppositional and refuses to bend to authority figures because he wants to be the boss. My son makes no distinction between adults/professionals and kids. He could appear to be rude, bossy or other due to his lack of initmidation and outspoken ways.
3. Cell phones?
I absolutely agree. His picking up the cell phones was a way to communicate with doctor, small talk. This is his way. If he was trying to control the environment it was probably the communication end of it. He does like to control conversation because he can predict what he says but not so much what someone else will say--he doesn't always know what to make of others comments.
The issue of control was brought up with a friend of mine who has a son with AS. She made me see it a bit differently and explained that underlying anxiety can cause our kids to feel an intense need to control the moment. This leads to rigidity, infllexibility and the lack of reciprocity. Yet, it is complex and needs to be understood within the context of a larger picture which is Aspergers.
I don't think mirroring back his behavior is an effective strategy. You would have to tell him he is indeed controlling the environment and fail to provide strategies for communicating and self-regulation.
Honstly, I don't think any psych. is going to make a difference with my son. He is his own island, a whirlwind of energy that can't be bottled. He is one-minded and doesn't see beyond his agenda. You can humble him somewhat, but once he's set on a thing--that's it. He tries out a variety of prhases/words/ideas I think, to test them. I understand him--others won't or don't.
He doesn't espouse to what he proposes--how could he? He doesn't have any experience at eight-years of age. In one breath he'll look at a cover of a woman on Time Magazine, scantily clothed, and whistle throwing out some obscene remark he's picked up (from tv/simpsons, commercials). In the next breath he'll talk about how woman are viewed as objects and why is this on a magazine in a doctor's office or a video store. Life is like one enormous experiement for him. He toys with these concepts that are engrained in our society, the corrupt and misguided are included--maybe because he can't decide how this is allowed and to what end? I agree. How is it allowed? For example, the Time Magazine was on the table in the Doctor's office. As he walked out of the doctor's office he put his hands on it and was asking for it (I didn't understand why), and the Doc understood this to be a way of controlling the environment. When I asked my son later in the car why he would want the doctor's magazine, he described the magazine, how there was a hot woman on the front....etc. What he really meant was "Why does a child psychologist have a magainze like this sitting on his table?" I need t teach him to say the right things, to comment on what he sees and say it rather than the other. Life comes at him this way and he tries to make sense of it. Maybe he thinks that's what he's suppose to say about the woman on the front, this is the male thing to do??? Imagine if he did voice his opinion, tell the doctor he shouldn't have these kind of magazines in his office? Interesting. How WOULD the doctor rationalize it?
He didn't create the insidious protrayal of woman in society but he is commenting on it. He just needs to be taught HOW to comment on it in an intelligent manner. This is what I talked to him about in the car. He seemed to understand. I told hm that he will be understood according to whatever comes out of his mouth. Saying women are objectified sounds intelligent. On the other hand, whisteling and saying hot sounds like the opposite. It's hard to explain that it's wrong and have him understand because woman are objectified to sell a product, and it is so prevalent in our society. He has opened my eyes to how much worse it's become! There is absolutely no censorship anywhere! Look around--what is going on? Not to get on a feminist kick here, but does anyone else notice the nudity and sexual content showing up everywhere, especially in commercials and in magazines which are difficult to avoid.
okay,
equinn |
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