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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| gwenevyn wrote: | | JohnHopkins wrote: | | I was referring more to the prostitution than the public sex, but okay then. |
It shocked me, too, the first time I saw it. Alex thinks it's important for aspies to have a safe place to talk about these things. |
Okay, so let's say somebody does this and then gets arrested for soliciting a prostitute. Is WP going to pay their legal fees? I don't think so. What if the person sues WP because people said that it was okay and didn't tell them they might get arrested by the local constabulary?
I know prostitution is legal in some countries but in the US, it is illegal in many states. I also note there is discussion about taking hard drugs. What if a young impressionable aspie takes crack or angel dust because they think it will make them more sociable and then they overdose and die or get serious brain damage or murder somebody while they are "high"?
WP could open itself to legal actions on this basis.
I also don't agree that venting is always the way to go. Sure it is okay within limits, but once indulged in to a great degree, it encourages the person to dwell on their bad feelings and maybe even act upon them.
For those prople abusing me for being elitist, don't forget I am officially diagnosed AS so have trouble expressing emotions about scary topics.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: |
For those prople abusing me for being elitist, don't forget I am officially diagnosed AS so have trouble expressing emotions about scary topics. |
1. "abusing me for being elitist." So you've agreed with your "abusers" that you're being elitist, and you've accused people of abusing you for it, without giving any sort of context.
2. Stating that you are officially diagnosed like this is little more than an attempt to use your diagnosis as some petty boost to your credibility, and a hit to anyone's that doesn't have an official diagnosis.
Your post would have been pretty darn reasonable without that last little bit, but then you had to needlessly go on the offensive, something you don't seem to like when you notice that in others. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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No, that isn't even true and you very well know it. I don't see why I should get abused for wanting some proper standards and having concern about vulnerable people who could end up being exploited and getting themselves into trouble.
As far as the official diagnosis goes, I realise there are valid reasons for some people not to have a diagnosis. The main one being that it is so expensive to get one. I wasn't trying to have a go at such people, no matter what you think.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | No, that isn't even true and you very well know it. I don't see why I should get abused for wanting some proper standards and having concern about vulnerable people who could end up being exploited and getting themselves into trouble. |
What isn't true? I don't even know what you're referring to, so I couldn't possibly "very well know it." If you weren't trying to admit to being elitist, you only have your word choice to blame for that. The other, I've seen you cry abuse several times now. That's about it.
"Proper" standards is subjective, and it is up to the site administration to decide what that means. If you don't like it...well...tough. As for concern for vulnerable people, let's see...
Drugs. Adult forum. If children are there, they are where they do not belong. I've yet to see a glowing review of ____ that wasn't accompanied somewhere by a warning, or an example of what could go wrong.
Prostitution. I've even seen people say that it is illegal. If someone decides to go ahead and break the law, that's their fault. Alex has already stated why he considers both of them to be worthwhile topics. You most likely read the post, as it was on the previous page of this thread.
| Pandora wrote: |
As far as the official diagnosis goes, I realise there are valid reasons for some people not to have a diagnosis. The main one being that it is so expensive to get one. I wasn't trying to have a go at such people, no matter what you think. |
Then I don't understand why you would make a point of bringing it up in the first place. What am I supposed to think about it? Can you offer an alternative explanation as for why you would? |
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AliceinOz
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | That's not what I meant by sicko. I meant people talking about child p@rn, bestiality, and other way out there topics. There are specific websites for those kinds of things. By tacitly encouraging them in a website such as this, it leaves the admin potentially open to many troublesome situations. I believe this is meant to be a website that supports Aspies in their daily lives and that instead of catering to a very small minority, we need to be looking at more systemic issues, such as discrimination against aspies in the general community, ignorance about autism, lack of job opportunities and support for parents anc children within the school system.
The real danger with the topics I mentioned at the very top is we already have a bad rap in the media for being mentally unbalanced, prone to violence, and even perversion. We need to clean up our image so that we can be seen as better people by the rest of the community. We don't need to encourage things that will make us look any worse than we are already painted. |
Thought you expressed yourself very well here Pandora and I agree on all points.
Some topics and discussions should be kept on adult boards that warn visitors of the explicit nature of the content. Informing visitors of such content doesn't prevent openness and self-expression but it does protect those who may find the material unsuitable or distasteful. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Just because I said I was getting abused for something DOES NOT mean that I was guilty of it eg. elitism. Is it possible to insert that into your understanding because I doubt I could make it any clearer than that.
I also don't know why you are personally picking on me when you've always been supportive or at least neutral in the past. It does not make sense.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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AliceinOz
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | | For many Australians, the first time they were aware of aspies was when the Port Arthur Massacre was blamed on Aspergers. The diagnosis was later refuted but too late for the general public. |
I wasn't aware of this. When I first heard of the shootings, however, my first thoughts were that it was one of my former housemates.
| gbollard wrote: | | You have to assume that journalists pretending to be aspies are reading this forum and will jump on topics of sensationalism. |
Yes, this troubles me too. Also those who trawl sites such as WP looking for vulnerable targets. I have found myself holding back on a number of discussions because of concerns over just who has access to these boards.
Gavin, you don't seem to be bothered about identifying yourself, either here or on facebook, but not all members of WP are in the position to be so open. I don't know how you fix this, or if you can fix it. I'd love to be able to talk more openly about my concerns and issues but have to be careful not to compromise myself professionally. Identifying as aspie or autie is not necessarily an advantage in my field. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I wanted to raise the issue of aspie people getting a bad reputation in the mass media because there are too many stories that portray us as lunatics, perverts, violent, and incompetent. It's lovely to see an occasional "feel good" story showing an aspie person or group achieving something worthwhile but I wish there would be more of them.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | Just because I said I was getting abused for something DOES NOT mean that I was guilty of it eg. elitism. Is it possible to insert that into your understanding because I doubt I could make it any clearer than that. |
Very well, my point about "abuse" still stands.
Then again, it is possible that you consider what I've posted to be abuse.
| Pandora wrote: |
I also don't know why you are personally picking on me when you've always been supportive or at least neutral in the past. It does not make sense. |
Taking issue with what you've posted is not picking on you. You can try and portray it that way, but that just isn't the case. If I take issue with something that someone posts, I'm going to say so.
As for the part that you've apparently ignored, if you don't have an alternative to the assumption for why you brought up the fact that you have an official diagnosis, then I'm left with that assumption. That you elaborated upon it by saying there are valid reasons for not having one suggests that, though you were not targeting anyone that falls under that category, you might have been targeting anyone that you consider to not have a valid reason for not being professionally diagnosed.
Some people seem to have taken issue with you seemingly expecting everyone to meet your standards . If you're concerned about abuse, perhaps that is the cause for it. If anything, I haven't seen abuse, merely people disagreeing with what you have said, or taking issue with how you have said it, or both. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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I do see your comments as somewhat abusive and targetting me for opprobrium in a quite unjustified way. It seems that there's one set of standards for you and another for me so can you really be surprised that I feel quite aggrieved here.
As a community, we face some real threats. Scientific technology means that a prenatal test for autism is coming ever closer. There are people in the general community who would be quite happy if we all disappeared for ever.
That's why I'm saying we shouldn't be giving them any ammunition to suppose that we are perverts and/or unbalanced because it can and will be used against us.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | I do see your comments as somewhat abusive and targetting me for opprobrium in a quite unjustified way. It seems that there's one set of standards for you and another for me so can you really be surprised that I feel quite aggrieved here. |
I've already stated why I've taken issue with some of what you've said. That's my justification. I don't agree with some of it, and if you think that's abusive, or targeting, that's unfortunate. People aren't always going to agree with you.
Interesting that you bring up the issue of standards, right after I did. Unfortunately you haven't elaborated on that any, as to how I'm supposedly acting like that, which is consistent with how you have said things, but it isn't much more than slinging mud. Which could be considered...surprise...abusive. If you want me to give an example of where you have expected someone to meet your standards, here you go:
| Pandora wrote: | | JohnHopkins wrote: | | Then why bother coming into the thread if you're just going to run people down? It's needless and pointless. |
Because it's needless and pointless to talk about it on a forum. |
(from here)
That kind of thing is going to offend some people. If they say something that you consider abusive, perhaps you gave them sufficient reason to respond to you in that way?
| Pandora wrote: |
As a community, we face some real threats. Scientific technology means that a prenatal test for autism is coming ever closer. There are people in the general community who would be quite happy if we all disappeared for ever.
That's why I'm saying we shouldn't be giving them any ammunition to suppose that we are perverts and/or unbalanced because it can and will be used against us. |
We shouldn't feel like we must cower in fear and try to hide anything that isn't "acceptable" to the media. There are NTs that go to prostitutes. There are NTs that use drugs. Just about anything that you consider to be negative that is brought up here is most likely also done by NTs in some way or another. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 10110
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | gwenevyn wrote: | | JohnHopkins wrote: | | I was referring more to the prostitution than the public sex, but okay then. |
It shocked me, too, the first time I saw it. Alex thinks it's important for aspies to have a safe place to talk about these things. |
Okay, so let's say somebody does this and then gets arrested for soliciting a prostitute. Is WP going to pay their legal fees? I don't think so. What if the person sues WP because people said that it was okay and didn't tell them they might get arrested by the local constabulary?
I know prostitution is legal in some countries but in the US, it is illegal in many states. I also note there is discussion about taking hard drugs. What if a young impressionable aspie takes crack or angel dust because they think it will make them more sociable and then they overdose and die or get serious brain damage or murder somebody while they are "high"?
WP could open itself to legal actions on this basis. |
I do not believe Alex’s attorney shares your concerns.
_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson |
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4408
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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AliceinOz, I've only known about being an aspie for two years and have had a whole (reasonably successful) life and career before that. I don't have anything to hide and I'm not worried about people targeting me. I've got thick skin.
For me, being an aspie is as natural as breathing. It's my genetic makeup and I can't change it no matter how much people complain.
I've always felt that if I wanted to be taken seriously, I need to be honest about who I am. Aside from which, clicking on my links goes to my blogs etc, so people are bound to figure out who I am anyway. I've told the people that I work with about aspergers and my boss has even asked for the address of my blog. Since the aim of the blog is to increase knowledge about the condition, I was happy to supply it.
Your profile doesn't mention your occupation, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to hide. You obviously have your reasons though - so I won't pry.
I know it's against the rules but if you really felt that you wanted to discuss things (and if they didn't contain clues to your identity, you could create a second login). Other than that, I can't see a way you could protect your identity.
Oh and shadexiii, IMHO you are picking on Pandora.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: |
Your profile doesn't mention your occupation, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to hide. You obviously have your reasons though - so I won't pry. |
I was wondering the same thing.
| gbollard wrote: |
Oh and shadexiii, IMHO you are picking on Pandora. |
Take a look at more than this thread. You don't even have to leave this section. You might just decide that that isn't the case. Or, you might not. Either way, my intent was not to pick on her, and though I do not want it to become that, it also doesn't bother me too much if some see it as that. |
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The_Chosen_One
Lord of all who roam in my domain
Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 1371
Location: Looking down on humanity
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| wsmac wrote: | The problem with shoving uninhibited thought out the door to some 'special place' on the 'net is that it's just pushing these things into a different type of closet.
The idea that these things do not belong here on WP is elitist and ignorant.
People with AS, ADHD, etc. desire a place to talk openly. This is the place to do that.
Expressing personal things thought to be rare, perverse, etc. and finding out there are other people just like you or who have just as 'weird' things about them is a positive experience not a negative.
Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'. I have never seen this as a place where we can only speak specifically about AS, Autism, and ADHD.
It's a place for people like us to have a forum to express ourselves when we believe there is no other place we can do so.
Saying a member should take their talk of certain thoughts and behaviors, the likes of what I have been defending here, to some special website for people who are 'way out there' or 'perverts', etc, is ignorant.
It's playing the same game of censorship and repression that the so-called NT's play.
This is the place where people can see how they actually relate to other people who all fall under the umbrella of this 'spectrum'.
It sort of feels like a family where the mom, dad, and siblings tell one child to take her/his questions elsewhere because the rest of the family is just too uncomfortable with the topics that one member has questions about.
If we cannot express ourselves openly here... amongst those we relate to... then what sort of expression and learning do you suppose will happen on those other 'special' website you people want us to go to?
And I include myself in this group of people you are trying to suppress.
I have spoken about my sexuality and gender issues, although I don't believe I have gone into too graphic a detail.
Still, once you clean up Wrong Planet of the ilk that turns our stomach, how long will it be before you turn on me?
I still believe that the only way to correct ignorant assumptions about people with AS, ADD/HD, Autism, etc, is to allow free expression when that expression does not cause harm to others.
I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate.
It's about acceptance and as long as you keep trying to refrain from being accepting, and keep sweeping it all under the rug... you help continue the myths that hurt our societies.
Whew... I need to get back over to the post about Macallan hiding in the coat rack... I need a good laugh 
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Excuse me, but I think that's just a load of pure bullshit. Just because people have Aspergers does NOT mean they are going to want to be necessarily interested in behaviour that mos so-called normal people would find offensive. You mind say that they are outside the norm, well, from what I understand about Aspies, they are meant to be highly functioning members of society whose brains are wired differently than others. And to tell you the truth, I am getting mighty sick off all theis horeshit about the fight between Aspies and NTs. What makes yopu think you are so goddamn superior anyway? We are all humn being with differences, ffs! If you want to be so friggin' high and mighty and elitist, about your disability, then get off others backs when they complain about certain things that they don't agree with, because they are just as entitled to their opinion as anyone else. And another thing, while I'm at it, it really annoys me when certain people think they can justify taking a holier than thou attitude towards certain others just because they think their diagnosis of ASD is better than the person they are targeting. Whether you are officially diagnosed or self-diagnosed, it makes no difference. Actually, I would prefer to go with an official diagnosis, simply because at least in a work environment, if you had a meltdown, your employer is more than likely going to accept a medical certificate than an excuse. So to sum it up, we are all meant to be one group of people here discussing things on a forum, and we are all equally entitled to say how we feel about anything we disagree with. And if people find that a little too hard to understand, then maybe you are on the wrong planet.
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Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!
Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone. |
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