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psy
Emu Egg
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | If they want to kill themselves in doing so, then I guess it may be hard to stop them. Illicit drugs are illegal, possession is a crime, pushing is a felony, and all this means is that serious jail time can be the result. Either that, or some poor bugger gets killed in a robbery for drug money, or soeone gets AIDS from an infected needle, or someone dies through taking a tampered dose of ecstasy. If people want help to get off them, fine. Discuss it all you want. But if people are saying that taking them is cool and someone overdoses and kills themselves vecause of the discussion, then intent follows the bullet. BTW, pedophilia, prostitution, child pornography etc are still illegal activities as well last time I read the news, so they should not be discussed on an open forum at all, and the police would discourage even closed fora as well. Criminal activity can get people into serious trouble, and the internet is one place where unfortunately it has become rife. Do we need that sort of behaviour here? Methinks not. |
the goverment has no right to make drugs illegal |
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shadexiii
Tanuki
Joined: Dec 16, 2006
Posts: 4013
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: |
I didn't know how to copy over the name of a thread or a post to alert the moderator to something upsetting and I still don't know how to do it so that is why it might seem there is no context to what I said about harassment. |
If you need to copy that sort of thing, just copy the URL from your address bar. I'm going to elaborate a bit because I simply don't know how much you know about web browsers and computers in general, and I'd rather err on the side of excess than assume you know exactly what I'm talking about and have that not be the case. As an example, the last thread of this page has the URL of
| URL wrote: | | http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts50841-start60.html |
| psy wrote: |
the goverment has no right to make drugs illegal |
If you want to make a statement like that, back it up. Otherwise, I could just as easily say that you have no right to make that statement. Which is pretty pointless, since you're going to say that it is your right...which is what the government could just as easily do, if supporting evidence isn't necessary.
As far as the government is concerned (or at the very least they will claim this) they are protecting their nation's citizens. To have some freedoms guaranteed and protected, you have to give up other freedoms. In this case, the "freedom" to do drugs. At least as long as the law stays what it is. |
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wsmac
WP Elevator Operator - What Floor Please?
Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 2879
Location: Humboldt County, Little Blue House on the Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="The_Chosen_One"] | wsmac wrote: | The problem with shoving uninhibited thought out the door to some 'special place' on the 'net is that it's just pushing these things into a different type of closet.
The idea that these things do not belong here on WP is elitist and ignorant.
People with AS, ADHD, etc. desire a place to talk openly. This is the place to do that.
Expressing personal things thought to be rare, perverse, etc. and finding out there are other people just like you or who have just as 'weird' things about them is a positive experience not a negative.
Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'. I have never seen this as a place where we can only speak specifically about AS, Autism, and ADHD.
It's a place for people like us to have a forum to express ourselves when we believe there is no other place we can do so.
Saying a member should take their talk of certain thoughts and behaviors, the likes of what I have been defending here, to some special website for people who are 'way out there' or 'perverts', etc, is ignorant.
It's playing the same game of censorship and repression that the so-called NT's play.
This is the place where people can see how they actually relate to other people who all fall under the umbrella of this 'spectrum'.
It sort of feels like a family where the mom, dad, and siblings tell one child to take her/his questions elsewhere because the rest of the family is just too uncomfortable with the topics that one member has questions about.
If we cannot express ourselves openly here... amongst those we relate to... then what sort of expression and learning do you suppose will happen on those other 'special' website you people want us to go to?
And I include myself in this group of people you are trying to suppress.
I have spoken about my sexuality and gender issues, although I don't believe I have gone into too graphic a detail.
Still, once you clean up Wrong Planet of the ilk that turns our stomach, how long will it be before you turn on me?
I still believe that the only way to correct ignorant assumptions about people with AS, ADD/HD, Autism, etc, is to allow free expression when that expression does not cause harm to others.
I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate.
It's about acceptance and as long as you keep trying to refrain from being accepting, and keep sweeping it all under the rug... you help continue the myths that hurt our societies.
Whew... I need to get back over to the post about Macallan hiding in the coat rack... I need a good laugh 
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| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | Excuse me, but I think that's just a load of pure bullshit. Just because people have Aspergers does NOT mean they are going to want to be necessarily interested in behaviour that mos so-called normal people would find offensive. |
I never said that just because someone has AS or ADD/HD that they are going to want to be necessarily interested... as you say. What I was trying to get across was that there are people here who do have AS, ADD/HD and DO want to discuss these things when they feel they cannot elsewhere. Some of us do feel this is a place we can feel more accepted than other places. That's all.
The topics I've been writing about here are not exclusive to people on the spectrum. I have never said that.
| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | You mind say that they are outside the norm, well, from what I understand about Aspies, they are meant to be highly functioning members of society whose brains are wired differently than others. |
No, I did not say we are 'outside the norm'. Go back and read my post you quoted earlier.. I say," Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'.". This is copied exactly as it is written and it means exactly what it says... that people here, as shown by their posts, feel outside the 'norm', whatever that description of 'norm' is.
| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | And to tell you the truth, I am getting mighty sick off all theis horeshit about the fight between Aspies and NTs. What makes yopu think you are so goddamn superior anyway? We are all humn being with differences, ffs! If you want to be so friggin' high and mighty and elitist, about your disability, then get off others backs when they complain about certain things that they don't agree with, because they are just as entitled to their opinion as anyone else. And another thing, while I'm at it, it really annoys me when certain people think they can justify taking a holier than thou attitude towards certain others just because they think their diagnosis of ASD is better than the person they are targeting. Whether you are officially diagnosed or self-diagnosed, it makes no difference. |
Sorry, but I am not seeing the connection between your remarks and mine, here.
-I have never taken a holier-than-thou position regarding anything.
-My words concerning NT's is this, "...the so-called NT's play". I said... the so-called NT's, meaning I do not see that term NT as being an absolute. It is an expression used to differentiate between those who have or believe they have AS, etc., and those who do not. I personally do not go around calling people NT. If you read further down my post above you'll see this, "I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate."
-I have never said anything about my diagnosis of ADHD being 'better' than anyone else's diagnosis of anything.
-You seem angry and resentful to the point that you are taking my words WAY out of context.
Please read my post that appeared after the one you quoted to get a better idea of my usage of the terms; ellitist, and ignorant.
| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | Actually, I would prefer to go with an official diagnosis, simply because at least in a work environment, if you had a meltdown, your employer is more than likely going to accept a medical certificate than an excuse. |
That sounds good.
| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | So to sum it up, we are all meant to be one group of people here discussing things on a forum, and we are all equally entitled to say how we feel about anything we disagree with. And if people find that a little too hard to understand, then maybe you are on the wrong planet. |
I agree with your first sentence here, but the last one seems to contradict the first.
I only stated my disagreement to the opinions of other members here on the board, and I tried to explain why I feel the way I do.
I have not called for anyone to go elsewhere to post, and I have not told anyone that they should not be posting the things they are.
You words come across as very passionate and angry. My first reaction is that you were feeling very upset and perhaps these words do not reflect they way you deliberate and argue topics here on WrongPlannet.
I'll state this again... my words previous and now are not made out of anger. I do not wish anyone to 'shut up' just because we do not agree.
My remarks were very specific about our societal inhibitions and why I thought they are more harmful than open discussion.
If you, The_Chosen_One, have misread my words... I hope this post will clarify things better.
In returning to this thread, I see quite a lot of discussion about attacks on Pandora.
I was not attacking her, I was attacking this ideaology that because some people find posts offensive, this means we should not allow those topics to be discussed on our Adult Forum, instead of people practicing a little discrimination when deciding which posts to read or not.
I do not know Pandora, so I make no personal judgements concerning her.
Anymore questions... feel free to ask. I'll be happy to clear up any misunderstandings... yours or mine 
And my question from earlier still stands, although perhaps I should create a new thread... "Define offensive", or something like that. My ignorance about how people define the term 'offensive' is no worse than anyone else's ignorance on other issues/topics. I seek to understand what I do not understand.
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4409
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Pandora wrote:
| Quote: | | That doesn't mean I am a man hater but it does mean I find comments about men using women sexually frightening and distressing. (The converse applies too). |
Put into that context, I can see how it would be frightening - particularly when very shady topics get discussed. A bit like talking to a group of people then slowly realizing part-way through the conversation that one (or more) are "monsters" - and they know who you are.
BTW: I'm not trying to suggest that anyone here is a monster... I've just used strong language to convey a certain point of view.
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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gwenevyn
oh, wait. not that!
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 6194
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | Pandora wrote:
| Quote: | | That doesn't mean I am a man hater but it does mean I find comments about men using women sexually frightening and distressing. (The converse applies too). |
Put into that context, I can see how it would be frightening - particularly when very shady topics get discussed. A bit like talking to a group of people then slowly realizing part-way through the conversation that one (or more) are "monsters" - and they know who you are.
BTW: I'm not trying to suggest that anyone here is a monster... I've just used strong language to convey a certain point of view. |
I think you bring up a good point here. I'm going to branch off of it a bit.
Something we'd do well to keep in mind is that when we give people a platform from which to talk about certain topics, we're not just giving those people the ability to say what's on their minds, we're giving them the opportunity to release viral information and ideas into the minds of others. "Free speech" sounds great--who wants to be persecuted for uttering their thoughts? But sometimes I wonder if by valuing it too much, we turn a blind eye to ideas that really are harmful, in the name of tolerance, and we give those ideas a safe place to grow. Nobody wants to be saddled with the label of bigot or prude, so they don't speak up.
I was startled to see in one thread the other day that several posters essentially agreed that rape was a fun and legitimate thing to watch in pornographic material, and that it was silly to say it wasn't okay. No one else said a word to the contrary. Instances like this gives the impression of a solid majority believing a certain way and that does tend to silence people who have more moderate opinions.
Please note I'm not pushing for having things one way or the other at this point. But I want to encourage people to keep debating this subject. If anybody's uncomfortable talking here, because they don't want their views to be criticised publicly, feel free to PM me or any other mod.
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The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry |
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wsmac
WP Elevator Operator - What Floor Please?
Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 2879
Location: Humboldt County, Little Blue House on the Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gwenevyn wrote: |
Something we'd do well to keep in mind is that when we give people a platform from which to talk about certain topics, we're not just giving those people the ability to say what's on their minds, we're giving them the opportunity to release viral information and ideas into the minds of others. "Free speech" sounds great--who wants to be persecuted for uttering their thoughts? But sometimes I wonder if by valuing it too much, we turn a blind eye to ideas that really are harmful, in the name of tolerance, and we give those ideas a safe place to grow. Nobody wants to be saddled with the label of bigot or prude, so they don't speak up. |
| gwenevyn wrote: | | I was startled to see in one thread the other day that several posters essentially agreed that rape was a fun and legitimate thing to watch in pornographic material, and that it was silly to say it wasn't okay. No one else said a word to the contrary. Instances like this gives the impression of a solid majority believing a certain way and that does tend to silence people who have more moderate opinions. |
I am not aware of the posts you mention above, although I did read the beginnings of one thread dealing with 'force being the only way to get a girl' or some similar wording.
The posts you mention about the rape conversation speak of someone's desire to hurt/abuse another person.
These are clearly wrong even when given in the context of it being legitimate to watch even through pornography.
Hopefully the actors in the pornography were not really being raped.
I do believe it is wrong to allow a thread that deals with illegal matters in such a way.
If someone were discussing how they were drawn to 'rape' scenarios in pornography and were trying to understand why it would have such an effect on them, I would have no trouble with the thread.
Hopefully they would understand that it is wrong to force people into such acts and if they find excitement with those ideas, perhaps discussing them here and getting mature, critical feedback would help them with the issue.
I have never advocated for unrestricted free speech here on the forum.
I do believe, and I have said so before, that there are topics that do not belong here because they are illegal and/or are attacks on people.
I disagree with this statement though.. "Instances like this gives the impression of a solid majority believing a certain way and that does tend to silence people who have more moderate opinions.".
While I am sure it does give that impression to some people, I also believe there are going to be plenty of folks who take it as just another example of the apathy of people.
The fact that no one argued against those posts may just mean that no one in opposition was aware of them, or was presently online to argue against them.
I'll have to read them to know better, but I have been in discussions with people who have said such things.
I had one last night at work about acting out violence in online gaming.
The person arguing in favor of it believes that acting out one's agressions online helps to diffuse those pent-up emotions, whereas someone who does not do this or have another safe outlet, may very well take those feeling out on real people.
The same argument may be what you are referring to about those posts... watching sexual assault or sex with children on video is a 'healthy' way to get those feelings out instead of doing them in real life.
The problem with that argument is that those people who believe this are not backing it up with fact.
I do believe they are just fooling themselves and not dealing with greater/deeper issues they have.
DISCLAIMER What I said above is NOT that I think such behavior is okay, or that Gwenevyn said so... read carefully, I only say that it is an argument some people put forth to validate their interest in viewing such matter!
| gwenevyn wrote: | | Please note I'm not pushing for having things one way or the other at this point. But I want to encourage people to keep debating this subject. If anybody's uncomfortable talking here, because they don't want their views to be criticised publicly, feel free to PM me or any other mod. |
Thank you.
I enjoy healthy debate. The internet is a difficult medium in which to do so because of the missing element of face-to-face interaction. The smilies help somewhat though!
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4409
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was startled to see in one thread the other day that several posters essentially agreed that rape was a fun and legitimate thing to watch in pornographic material, and that it was silly to say it wasn't okay. No one else said a word to the contrary. Instances like this gives the impression of a solid majority believing a certain way and that does tend to silence people who have more moderate opinions. |
I didn't notice that thread.
Often, If I think a thread contains things I won't want to know about or if I make a judgment about the conversation levels in a thread, I'll deliberately not make a comment because I don't want a new mail message every time someone posts there. I know I can turn them off but I'm not sure if I even want to make a mark in the thread.
Unlike a lot of people here, I'm being myself, so I need to be sensible about my image.
Of course, you raise an important point.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke, member of British Parliament (1729-1797)
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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wsmac
WP Elevator Operator - What Floor Please?
Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 2879
Location: Humboldt County, Little Blue House on the Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: |
Unlike a lot of people here, I'm being myself, so I need to be sensible about my image.
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Perhaps you didn't really mean "a lot of people"?
I tend to believe that everyone is 'being themself' here.
Being sensible about one's image is relative.
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4409
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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wsmac wrote
| Quote: | Perhaps you didn't really mean "a lot of people"?
I tend to believe that everyone is 'being themself' here.
Being sensible about one's image is relative. |
Sorry, clear cut case of writing half of what's in my head and leaving half to interpretation.
I think most people here are BEING themselves but what I mean is that I'm being a bit open about who I am (ie: That's my picture in my avatar, though granted it isn't my Tardis).
I'm willing to bet that you probably don't really look like a couple of cats. 
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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wsmac
WP Elevator Operator - What Floor Please?
Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 2879
Location: Humboldt County, Little Blue House on the Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | wsmac wrote
| Quote: | Perhaps you didn't really mean "a lot of people"?
I tend to believe that everyone is 'being themself' here.
Being sensible about one's image is relative. |
Sorry, clear cut case of writing half of what's in my head and leaving half to interpretation.
I think most people here are BEING themselves but what I mean is that I'm being a bit open about who I am (ie: That's my picture in my avatar, though granted it isn't my Tardis).
I'm willing to bet that you probably don't really look like a couple of cats. |
GOT IT!  although I am rather disappointed that your background has turned out to be fake.
I was in awe of you until you revealed that one.
I've posted my picture around here in a couple of posts, but the kitties were some local transients who occupied my house for a few weeks until I could find them homes... I kept my skateboard though!
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The_Chosen_One
Lord of all who roam in my domain
Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 1371
Location: Looking down on humanity
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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wsmac: Some of my comment was directed at you, but a lot of it had the metaphorical 'you' as in everybody. I tend to do that a lot in a conversation. I felt a bit peeved at the attitude in gerneral by certain people (It may not necessarily be confined to here) at others who are maybe a little more vulnerable than those making the obsevations. You may have gotten caught up in the crossfire.
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Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!
Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone. |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 48
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Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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We also need to remember that many young and impressionable aspies join forums such as these. I'm not saying we should never discuss taboo subjects but just that a great deal of care is used to avoid encouraging newbies to think it's a good idea to do illegal things when they probably don't understand the consequences and are emotionally unable to deal with them.
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Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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wsmac
WP Elevator Operator - What Floor Please?
Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 2879
Location: Humboldt County, Little Blue House on the Hill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | We also need to remember that many young and impressionable aspies join forums such as these. I'm not saying we should never discuss taboo subjects but just that a great deal of care is used to avoid encouraging newbies to think it's a good idea to do illegal things when they probably don't understand the consequences and are emotionally unable to deal with them. |
I can agree with this wholeheartedly. But the thing is, on the internet it's difficult to assure who the audience really is.
I wish there was a really good way to have a secure forum for these topics and other open discussion forums available for teens and younger who might actually be quite mature.
Anyway, thanks for posting this.
| The_Chosen_One wrote: | | wsmac: Some of my comment was directed at you, but a lot of it had the metaphorical 'you' as in everybody. I tend to do that a lot in a conversation. I felt a bit peeved at the attitude in gerneral by certain people (It may not necessarily be confined to here) at others who are maybe a little more vulnerable than those making the obsevations. You may have gotten caught up in the crossfire. |
OW!.. so this is what being in the crossfire is like?  I GIVE UP! DON'T SHOOT!
Thanks for the explanation... I still like you just fine! 
I've been enjoying this whole discussion and although some have felt to be targets of other people's words, it seems like things are still going pretty well here.
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4409
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But the thing is, on the internet it's difficult to assure who the audience really is.
I wish there was a really good way to have a secure forum for these topics and other open discussion forums available for teens and younger who might actually be quite mature. |
The only good way I've ever seen is to ASK adult questions before letting them in.
Anyone remember the questions at the front of the Leisure Suit Larry games?
Of course, the problem is that the people here are aspies and were generally mature enough at young ages to know the answers. It would probably work well for NTs though.
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
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Age: 48
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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The most charitable explanation I can put to the "inappropriate" comments from a few posters is that they do not understand what is appropriate for general consumption and what is not. But I'm pretty sure that this only explains some of them and that the others are coming from people hitting out at all members of a particular group because they've had bad experiences with one or a few of them.
To lessen the danger a bit, I think it would be a really good idea to put the kid's crater well away from the adult's forum and not under it where the kids could look in at the adult forum on the way down to the kid's crater.
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Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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