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MysteryFan3
Ex-COBOL dinosaur. roar.
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 1358
Location: Indiana
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | wow, thank goodness my parents are deceased.
We must be such a burden to those people.
Merle |
Yes, but we're so cute and cuddly no one minds. 
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To eliminate poverty, you have to eliminate at least three things: time, the bell curve and the Pauli Exclusion Principle. Have fun. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lau wrote: | | Triangular_Trees wrote: | | That retraction letter ... |
I'm afraid you misread it. I nearly posted it as you say, calling it a "retraction letter", but it's not even that. All it says is that they have completed their first phase. Maybe their next phase will be even bigger billboards, with the same messages.
The announcement also steers way clear of saying what proportion of their mail was in favour of their campaign and how many petitions they have asking them to continue it.
Finally, it does not mention which of their people they have sacked. |
Nope it sounds as if you've misread it. What it says is:
| Quote: | | We have decided to conclude this phase of our campaign today because the debate over the ads is taking away from the pressing day-to-day work we need to do to help children and their families |
That's enough to call it a retraction letter for the ransom notes |
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | lau wrote: | | Triangular_Trees wrote: | | That retraction letter ... |
I'm afraid you misread it. I nearly posted it as you say, calling it a "retraction letter", but it's not even that. All it says is that they have completed their first phase. Maybe their next phase will be even bigger billboards, with the same messages.
The announcement also steers way clear of saying what proportion of their mail was in favour of their campaign and how many petitions they have asking them to continue it.
Finally, it does not mention which of their people they have sacked. |
Nope it sounds as if you've misread it. What it says is:
| Quote: | | We have decided to conclude this phase of our campaign today because the debate over the ads is taking away from the pressing day-to-day work we need to do to help children and their families |
That's enough to call it a retraction letter for the ransom notes |
No it is not.
This is most confusing to me. I have no idea what you are saying. Nowhere does their announcement make the slightest suggestion that they retract anything. They seem to be most self-congratulatory on how much interest they generated. They do not renege on any of the ransom notes. They do not admit that there was anything wrong with them.
Having sown the wind, they reaped the whirlwind. On the one hand, they say how pleased they are with the success(sic) of their campaign, then they complain about "the debate(sic) over the ads" causing their telephone and email to be swamped, I guess.
A retraction would have somewhere said "We acknowledge that the adverts were badly conceived. We will not use them, or any similarly poorly thought-out techniques in the future."
As I said, their current announcement does not preclude them using the identical adverts again.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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yes it does. Its a typical retraction letter.
| Quote: | | This is most confusing to me. I have no idea what you are saying. Nowhere does their announcement make the slightest suggestion that they retract anything. |
I quoted that for you in my last post. again thats a typical way of retraction
| Quote: | | They seem to be most self-congratulatory on how much interest they generated. |
I agree. And thats why I called their retraction letter a joke
| Quote: | | They do not renege on any of the ransom notes. They do not admit that there was anything wrong with them. |
They do that right there in the bit I quoted. That's why I quoted it for you:
| Quote: | | We have decided to conclude this phase of our campaign today because the debate over the ads is taking away from the pressing day-to-day work we need to do to help children and their families |
This phase of our campaign talks about the ransom notes, as is obvious when viewed in context of the letter. The latter part of the sentence further removes any doubt one could potentially have about the ransom notes being pulled, as it clearly states the debate over them is preventing them from reaching their goals
| Quote: | | A retraction would have somewhere said "We acknowledge that the adverts were badly conceived. We will not use them, or any similarly poorly thought-out techniques in the future." |
Not in the business world my friend. That would be seriously detrimental to their daily operations, even more so than the ransom notes were. They couldn't very well be asking for money to help their cause if they did such, and the goal of the campaign was to raise money for thei cause, so they'd double-lose. And if one of their people really did put something like your wording up, you can guarantee that person would be out of the organization by the end of the week.
There retraction letter is pretty standard for a business or organization that has made a foolish mistake and knows its better for their operations if they cover their mistake as best as possible, while appeasing those wronged by it. The first rule in correcting a business mistake is to minimize all damage, past, present and future. Your statement would bring about added damage.
| Quote: | | As I said, their current announcement does not preclude them using the identical adverts again. |
And the sentence I quoted shows beyond any doubt that you are mistaken on this. I rather get the impression you aren't the least familiar with business operations, legalese and business-speak
There are also other statements in the letter that shows this is not the case:
| Quote: | | The campaign succeeded in getting people’s attention and sparking dialogue, but much of the debate centered on the ads instead of the issues. |
- Here they're admitting their campaign failed to achieves its goal of talking about the issues
| Quote: | | Though we meant well, we've come to realize that we unintentionally hurt and offended some people. |
and here they admit the ransom part of the campaign was a mistake as it was hurting and offensive to some
I don't have the link to it right now, but elsewhere (either on the site of the site of the marketing agency they used) I have read about how they decided to include autism and aspergers in the ransom notes, because they felt the only people they'd be arguing with were those uninformed about what autism and asperger's were. However, when the ads went up they found the two groups they were arguing with were autistic adults and parents of children with autism. |
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | I rather get the impression you aren't the least familiar with business operations, legalese and business-speak |
Au contraire, mon cher. Having had my own company for thirty years, gone through quite a bit of legal stuff, at one time or another, and done work for more companies than I can offhand count,...
The phrase you keep quoting does not define what they regard as "this phase of our campaign". The fact that you interpret the phrase as referring to some all-time non-use of the adverts does not make that binding on them to interpret it the same way. As I suggested, "this phase" could just mean the local use of the adverts. The commencement of their next phase might be to show them internationally. I certainly hope this is not the case.
Both your further quotes just serve to show how wheedling they are being. They speak of "debate", when I doubt they had any such thing. Their comment that their ads' effects were in some way unintentional just leaves one wondering how much intentionality they are capable of.
I suppose I'm just unhappy that they didn't just admit they got it wrong. Plus I still see no commitment on their part not to repeat the whole fiasco.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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KBABZ
Third Technician, Chicken Soup Machine Repairman
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Age: 19
Posts: 6665
Location: Middle Earth. Er, I mean Wellywood. Wait, Wellington.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care if their campaign ends, I'm still gonna complain.
_________________
I was sad when I found that she left
But then I found
That I could speak to her,
In a way
And sadness turned to comfort
We all go there |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The phrase you keep quoting does not define what they regard as "this phase of our campaign". |
In contexct of the letter, there is no possible doubt that "this phase of our campaign" refers to the letters.
| Quote: | | The fact that you interpret the phrase as referring to some all-time non-use of the adverts does not make that binding on them to interpret it the same way. |
I have interpreted it int he only logical way possible, as anyone with business experience would tell you. The fact that you are unable to see this makes me sincerely doubt your business experience (not to mention your personal website which negate some of the business experience you - you are either lying about owning your own company for 30 years, or you have left out the most crucial bit of knowledge, and the one thing that is most likely to get you hired, off of your CV. If you sent that resume to me it would go straight to the trash, because the only thing it shows is that since the 1960's you've been completely unable to maintain steady employment with any one company. There is also nothing on your homepage that would change my impression of this - nowhere does it say you own your own business. And of course theres also the fact you list "beer" as one of your personal interests on the same page you are trying to get people to hire you - that also shows a lack of business knowledge. In fact beer is even the top interest listed, and one has to read past two others before they see an interest that is related to a job you hope to get. That's demarketing yourself. You're in essence telling potential employers you are more interested in beer than you are in the job you want them to hire you for.
If you are in fact telling the truth than the top of your resume should state "Successfuly ran X company since 19??, and above the list of work experiences you should have a line of text stating that these were projects contracted to your company. You should also keep personal stuff separate from business stuff. And personal stuff like an interest in drinking beer should not be easily traced back to you, as employers are increasingly running people's names through a search enginge/myspace etc before deciding whether or not they are job worthy. Many a candidate looks great until the empliyer stuymbles across the myspace page of them getting wasted.
| Quote: | | As I suggested, "this phase" could just mean the local use of the adverts. The commencement of their next phase might be to show them internationally. I certainly hope this is not the case. |
However the letter I'm quoting from makes it clear beyond any possible doubt that that is the case. And the quotes I have posted for you prove that. You can't doubt that without trying to deliberately misunderstand what is there.
| Quote: | | Both your further quotes just serve to show how wheedling they are being. They speak of "debate", when I doubt they had any such thing. Their comment that their ads' effects were in some way unintentional just leaves one wondering how much intentionality they are capable of. |
So you are now criticising them because they say the ads effects were unintentional? So you think they posted them around town because they wanted to intentionally destroy their own credibility on the issues they propose to support? You seem to go quite beyond the realms of normality to find reasons to attack these people.
| Quote: | | I suppose I'm just unhappy that they didn't just admit they got it wrong. |
They admitted as such as much can be expected from any business looking to make a buck. That's the whole retraction letter
| Quote: |
I still see no commitment on their part not to repeat the whole fiasco. |
Thats no surprise given that you are completing blinding yourself to well they spelled it out, in no uncertain terms for you. I've quoted that, and I've explained that. if you still can't see it, its not because its not there, its because you aren't willing to see it. Granted I can understand not wanting to see that, being as they didn't say it straight forward, but that still doesn't negate the fact that they have admitted it was a mistake. |
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Douglas_MacNeill
Phoenix
Joined: May 11, 2007
Age: 45
Posts: 741
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | <pointless comments deleted> |
What a strange child you are.
_________________
"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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KBABZ
Third Technician, Chicken Soup Machine Repairman
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Age: 19
Posts: 6665
Location: Middle Earth. Er, I mean Wellywood. Wait, Wellington.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |
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"Dr. Koplewicz is collaborating with the BBDO for the next campaign on children with disabilities, which is expected to be available within the next three months."
What's next, ACTUAL ransom letters?!
And it took them TWO WEEKS of complaining to finally get it?!
_________________
I was sad when I found that she left
But then I found
That I could speak to her,
In a way
And sadness turned to comfort
We all go there |
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Douglas_MacNeill
Phoenix
Joined: May 11, 2007
Age: 45
Posts: 741
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, guys and gals:
I sent a cheerful little reply of my own
to the good people at the Child Study Centre
over the Web. In it, I made a discreet
little suggestion to the effect that the
Health Research Ethics panel at NYU was...
asleep at the switch? absent and accounted for?
unjustly overruled by a third party? too
scared to stand up for the panel's rightful authority?
No matter; if NYU wants to try another advertising stunt
like that, I'm ready to take them on if their HRE panel
bails out again. |
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violet_yoshi
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Age: 27
Posts: 1385
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking about a ransom note, about their ransom note ads. So I guess it'd go something like this:
We have your dreams and your hopes for the future of your children. We will destroy these dreams, and replace them with nightmares. Nightmares that your children will suffer some form of perceived disorder. Once we have decided what to call that disorder, we will then plague you with guilt and fear for your children. We will convince you that your child needs to be cured, by us, even though there isn't anything all that wrong with them. Once we have control over you, and your children, we will proceed to assimilate you to our idea of what a person should be. We will make you more social, more willing to take orders without question. We will make you malleable, and without resistance. Then we will proceed to pronounce you as cured.
NYC Child Study Center - www.aboutourkids.org
*Praise Ford!
*If you don't get it, it's a reference to the book Brave New World. Yeah, cause this whole thing kind of ended up sounding a bit totalitarian, like 1984 and all that.
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"Sprinkle, sprinkle, little bar, what I wonder is a cat" - Cheese from Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends |
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Weirdobird
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| YowlingCat wrote: | Most offensive of all to me was this characterization:
| Quote: | | It's harsh and edgy and shocking but I don't think it's nearly as shocking as the diseases themselves, and the lack of treatment," he (Koplewicz) said. "It's time for psychotic disorders to be equal to physical disorders." |
Psychotic? |
This is horrific. I treat aspies, ADHDers and HFAs and approach it from a completely non-mind-therapy angle. Our conditions just have some symptoms that manifest as emotional or behavioral. That is all. How awful that someone is using the skewed viewpoint of mind disorders to get money to hammer the point of the mind disorder nonsense. |
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AutisticAdvocacy
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 08, 2008
Posts: 43
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Jellybean
Professional Touretter
Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 1083
Location: Wyboston
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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That is sick. I can't stand it when the NTs think this way. So just because we are different, we are being 'held ransom'? what a load of poop...
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I can't be bothered anymore... |
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