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Danielismyname
Ma said I'm special
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8853
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 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I personally don't understand the aversion people have to those who live at home; it must be some social thingy I'm lacking.
I don't mind if she lived with her parents for life, for whatever reason; it's erroneous to assume that people cannot look after themselves if they live with their parents (speaking objectively here), it's also a throwback to inequality, i.e., men own cave and earn money to buy...stuff; women look after cave and have babies. (The mother/partner conflict/replacement that many women fear is hilarious too; men would have just "taken" their mothers in the past after clubbing dad, and society then would have been completely different if men "wanted" their mothers.)
Most young men/women with Asperger's live at home; I guess it's one of those additives that add to the inability to form relationships. |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it might only apply to NT single adults.
I can't think of a reason why a man over 30 would want to live at home, though. If someone could tell me one reason, besides taking care of incapble parents or disability or saving for a house/paying off loans, I'd be grateful.
So let's put this in perspective. I've seen two reality dating shows, where one of the contestants still lived at home with their parents. One lived on the couch at home. The other lived in the basement. Both were DEFINITELY NT. I dont know how old the couch guy was, but no one seemed to forget the idea that he was a mama's boy. I dont know if he was paying of debts, so I didnt think his situation was that bad. Not enough for ridicule.
The basement guy, however, he was in his late 20s. Perfectly social. His parents admitted to washing his dishes, his clothes, he had no job, they even admitted he had issues if his parents asked him to mow the lawn. To be honest, what it did was make him look like he was 17, not 27. It just did not seem like he had taken on the responsibilities of an adult yet. And by that age, most people in the USA would expect it. I guess people see that if a person had the skills, has the ability, but never uses it, it's not adult. Some people, like my father, think it shows lack of ambition.
It's not that those women think the men wanted their mothers, it's just people will assume an NT man who lives at home lets his mother or father do things for him. So therefore he may only want a women to do the things his mother did.
Personally, I just wouldnt want the concepts of relying on myself to be a new thing when I'm that age. By that age, I want to be established, have that skill by experiencing it, and to know what I'm doing without help from anyone. I feel it is important as I have been too reliant in the past, and I think it does build character.
It may be different for people with AS. |
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Danielismyname
Ma said I'm special
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8853
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| merr wrote: | | I can't think of a reason why a man over 30 would want to live at home, though. If someone could tell me one reason, besides taking care of incapble parents or disability or saving for a house/paying off loans, I'd be grateful. |
He/she likes it? One can be perfectly "independent", established, self-sufficient and full of life experience yet still live at home. Some people are very "pack" orientated after all, it's just another "normal" way of existing; people live near their parents for this reason too.
It's only a place of residence, a place to eat and sleep; the former doesn't even need to apply.
One can live in his own house and do nothing; no upkeep, no maintenance, no household chores, no nothing; but one could live with his father/mother, because he likes them, he gets along with them, and he does all of the former which the person who lives by himself doesn't.
As I said, it's only a home; it doesn't completely define a person. |
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LePetitPrince
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| merr wrote: | | LePetitPrince wrote: |
ps:I guess living with parents is a big turn-off in your culture and you are perceived as 'loser' that can't afford to own his own house. |
It's not that people think you are a loser, they may think that, due to lack of experience, you may not know how to take care of yourself. I think it is different here, even for women. I know some (Christian) girls whose parents will not let them live outside the home until they are married. I think this is fine.
But not for me. This is because I somewhat believe for a person who has been sheltered, or extremely socially anxious and reclusive, this may be somewhat harmful for me to wait until I am married. I can feel that I am not gaining any experience on being used to the real world. SOmetimes I get out there and it almost feels too much. I forget what it's like to be around people. I dont want to wait until Im thirty because in the US, I'd be in the same position as a kid out of university, and I want to be ahead of that. I'd be at a disadvantage.
Also, my parents are conservative, and they hate when I have my boyfriend in my room. I'm 21 (my conservative university makes students sign honor codes to live at home until I graduate) and it's a little ridiculous to have my dad send my sister to check on us every 30 minutes, and for me to have to leave my door open, and for my parents to moniter whether he curses or not. The thing is, most women know that theyd have to sneak around parents with their adult boyfriend or deal with the parents' rules. If they have respect for your parents, they wouldnt go against their wishes, so it makes it easier if you have your own place and your parents aren't watching (or know)your every move.
I definitely agree that it is okay to move back in with parents while you repay your college bills. It's a very smart thing to do. That's why I sugested to move out before he is 30, if he is able to. |
Now stop blablabing around and around and be quick straight, living alone(for guys) is perceived as loser's typical characteristic in US.You can know that even from movies. |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Danielismyname wrote: | | merr wrote: | | I can't think of a reason why a man over 30 would want to live at home, though. If someone could tell me one reason, besides taking care of incapble parents or disability or saving for a house/paying off loans, I'd be grateful. |
He/she likes it? One can be perfectly "independent", established, self-sufficient and full of life experience yet still live at home. Some people are very "pack" orientated after all, it's just another "normal" way of existing; people live near their parents for this reason too.
It's only a place of residence, a place to eat and sleep; the former doesn't even need to apply.
One can live in his own house and do nothing; no upkeep, no maintenance, no household chores, no nothing; but one could live with his father/mother, because he likes them, he gets along with them, and he does all of the former which the person who lives by himself doesn't.
As I said, it's only a home; it doesn't completely define a person. |
Yes, youre very right, but again this is how a lot of NT people feel about other NT people. It may not apply to people with Aspergers. I would say that this is a very important thing to understand. All above need not apply to you or others here.
LePetitPrince, you want so badly for me to say that, but it's just not that simple. And I hate that word "loser".  |
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sinsboldly
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 14242
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Danielismyname wrote: |
I don't mind if she lived with her parents for life, for whatever reason; it's erroneous to assume that people cannot look after themselves if they live with their parents (speaking objectively here), it's also a throwback to inequality, i.e., men own cave and earn money to buy...stuff; women look after cave and have babies. (The mother/partner conflict/replacement that many women fear is hilarious too; men would have just "taken" their mothers in the past after clubbing dad, and society then would have been completely different if men "wanted" their mothers.)
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what?
what reputible Anthropological text book gave you THAT impression?
do you really think that all 'cave men' had the same cultural norms?
how could that be when they developed in different geographical areas and were isolated from other cultures?
really, Danielismyname, your cartoon ideal of what 'cavemen' were all about would be laughable if it wern't so sad. The introduction of agriculture and to some extent herding cultures gave rise to gender 'inequality' and that was long after 'cavemen'.
no, really, do yourself a favor and read some actual research of early cultures. Id you were giving some simplistic view of genetic stem cell research or string theory someone knowledgeable in those fields would set you straight. I can do no less than challenge your simplistic ideas of what 'cave people' culture was like.
Merle
who has degrees in anthropology and sociology. . . and who lived before there was double standard for Aspies and NTs |
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Danielismyname
Ma said I'm special
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8853
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Naturally, I wasn't speaking of "real" cavemen/cavewomen, that's kinda obvious; I was speaking of the gender stereotypes that my mother grew up with. "They're" the cave people to me.
Men have their place; women have theirs, and all that. |
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Mark198423
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 190
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
really, Danielismyname, your cartoon ideal of what 'cavemen' were all about would be laughable if it wern't so sad. The introduction of agriculture and to some extent herding cultures gave rise to gender 'inequality' and that was long after 'cavemen'. |
A little harsh to call someone laughable and sad due to that comment, the historical aspect of it wan't even the point.
Not sure about over there in the US but in the UK it isn't looked upon to well to still be at home at that age, there's just not the same freedom perceived in it - there'll be certain rules you have to stick to, and more in some cases. In my job I frequently have to find out people's housing status and the vast majority by 25 just don't live with their parents. It also seems to me that a higher percentage of people here have started (full time) work much earlier than over there, which may be a contributing factor in why people are moving out sooner but I'd say it can't be many years before the rules are similar there too - particularly as parents there seem a little more strict.
It will always be down to individual girls tastes though, just like every other thing you mentioned, some will care, some will not. I think you need to not care yourself though, before others won't. |
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sinsboldly
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 14242
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark198423 wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: |
really, Danielismyname, your cartoon ideal of what 'cavemen' were all about would be laughable if it wern't so sad. The introduction of agriculture and to some extent herding cultures gave rise to gender 'inequality' and that was long after 'cavemen'. |
A little harsh to call someone laughable and sad due to that comment, the historical aspect of it wan't even the point. |
I would never call Danielismyname laughable OR sad, and I did not. I said his cartoonish idea of cavemen bonking a woman over the head to drag back to his cave could be laughable if it wern't so sad.
so Please, don't suggest I am critizing Danielismyname, Mark198423. That was never my intention and not what I wrote.
Merle |
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Smelena
Cure Neurotypicals Now!
Joined: Apr 02, 2007
Posts: 2150
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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My husband was living with his parents when I first met him.
He was 21 and I was 18.
My husband lives in a wardrobe of Manchester United football shorts and shirts! He loves football / soccer - playing, watching it and talking about it.
He is an avid stamp collector and spends most of his spare time reading stamp catalogues and bidding online for stamps.
My husband worries that he's boring, but I think he's great.
Mw99, it sounds likes your biggest problem is not getting out to meet anyone.
Helen
_________________
To see my family and my advocacy efforts: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JR03uSFQf6Y and http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZBxFYFvuA |
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Mw99
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 1232
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
I haven't been a young lady for quite some time so I asked some young women (1 at 19, 2 at 22, 1 at 23 and 4 at 25 year olds) during a break at my place of business. |
Funny how you know their exact ages. Did you just happen to know their ages or did you casually ask them?
| Quote: | | I just asked "would you date a young man of 25 that still lives with his parents?" the answers came thick and fast "no! he would just want me to take over for his mother!" |
No, I would not.
| Quote: | | "probably doesn't have practical knowledge of budgets and bill paying!" |
Because I choose to live a frugal lifestyle, "budgets" and "bill paying" are not something I struggle with.
| Quote: | | "who cleans HIS toilets?" |
I don't clean the toilets, but if that's an issue arrangements can be made.
| Quote: | | "what? no "whoopee?"" "he better live in his own apartment, though" "who cooks and clean for him?" |
Chances are I would not let my hypothetical girlfriend cook for me, anyway, because I'm very picky when it comes to food and for the most part I only like to eat the food I prepare.
| Quote: | | The nineteen year old was much more open to it because "I would like to meet his folks, and if he lived with them I could always use that for reasons not to become physically intimate if I didn't want to." |
I see no need for my hypothetical girlfriend to meet my folks and viceversa. I also see no need for me to meet her folks either.
| Quote: | | The 25 year olds were the most vocal about it being a turn off/ deal breaker because as one put it "I am looking for a man that can take care of himself so he will appreciate me when I look after him" |
The fact that I live at home does not mean I can't take care of myself or that I wouldn't appreciate someone looking after me.
You should have told those young women that the hypothetical man in question is not like most men his age. (And I mean "not like most men his age" not because he lives at his parents' home.) |
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sinsboldly
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 14242
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
I haven't been a young lady for quite some time so I asked some young women (1 at 19, 2 at 22, 1 at 23 and 4 at 25 year olds) during a break at my place of business. |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Funny how you know their exact ages. Did you just happen to know their ages or did you casually ask them? |
I jotted their names and ages down on the same pad of paper I recorded their answers on. Why would that be 'funny'? it was just efficient.
| Quote: | | I just asked "would you date a young man of 25 that still lives with his parents?" the answers came thick and fast "no! he would just want me to take over for his mother!" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | No, I would not. |
| Quote: | | "probably doesn't have practical knowledge of budgets and bill paying!" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Because I choose to live a frugal lifestyle, "budgets" and "bill paying" are not something I struggle with. |
budgets and bill paying happen even for frugral lifestyles, so I don't understand your answer.
| Quote: | | "who cleans HIS toilets?" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | I don't clean the toilets, but if that's an issue arrangements can be made. |
The question was 'who cleans them' which speaks to how you expect things to happen for you, what you see as needing to be done and how your mindset is towards routine maintance and how that routine manintance is accomplished. It is good you are willing to learn, though!
| Quote: | | "what? no "whoopee?"" "he better live in his own apartment, though" "who cooks and clean for him?" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Chances are I would not let my hypothetical girlfriend cook for me, anyway, because I'm very picky when it comes to food and for the most part I only like to eat the food I prepare. |
Again that speaks to what your expectations are that others would have to adapt and how much you were willing to adapt for them, too.
| Quote: | | The nineteen year old was much more open to it because "I would like to meet his folks, and if he lived with them I could always use that for reasons not to become physically intimate if I didn't want to." |
| Mw99 wrote: | | I see no need for my hypothetical girlfriend to meet my folks and viceversa. I also see no need for me to meet her folks either. |
there it is, Mw99, having a boyfriend is usually an audition for a lifemate that is involved in all family relationships. So no, I don't see any of those women OK with not sharing their families and not expecting to share your's too. So, you're right. Those women are not looking for the same thing you are.
| Quote: | | The 25 year olds were the most vocal about it being a turn off/ deal breaker because as one put it "I am looking for a man that can take care of himself so he will appreciate me when I look after him" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | The fact that I live at home does not mean I can't take care of myself or that I wouldn't appreciate someone looking after me. |
| Mw99 wrote: | | You should have told those young women that the hypothetical man in question is not like most men his age. (And I mean "not like most men his age" not because he lives at his parents' home.) |
oh, OK. It never occurred to me to make your excuses for you. Good luck in convincing NTs that we should be cut a different break for being Aspies!
all the best, and happy new year!
Merle |
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Mw99
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 1232
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: |
I haven't been a young lady for quite some time so I asked some young women (1 at 19, 2 at 22, 1 at 23 and 4 at 25 year olds) during a break at my place of business. |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Funny how you know their exact ages. Did you just happen to know their ages or did you casually ask them? |
I jotted their names and ages down on the same pad of paper I recorded their answers on. Why would that be 'funny'? it was just efficient.
| Quote: | | I just asked "would you date a young man of 25 that still lives with his parents?" the answers came thick and fast "no! he would just want me to take over for his mother!" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | No, I would not. |
| Quote: | | "probably doesn't have practical knowledge of budgets and bill paying!" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Because I choose to live a frugal lifestyle, "budgets" and "bill paying" are not something I struggle with. |
budgets and bill paying happen even for frugral lifestyles, so I don't understand your answer.
| Quote: | | "who cleans HIS toilets?" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | I don't clean the toilets, but if that's an issue arrangements can be made. |
The question was 'who cleans them' which speaks to how you expect things to happen for you, what you see as needing to be done and how your mindset is towards routine maintance and how that routine manintance is accomplished. It is good you are willing to learn, though!
| Quote: | | "what? no "whoopee?"" "he better live in his own apartment, though" "who cooks and clean for him?" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | Chances are I would not let my hypothetical girlfriend cook for me, anyway, because I'm very picky when it comes to food and for the most part I only like to eat the food I prepare. |
Again that speaks to what your expectations are that others would have to adapt and how much you were willing to adapt for them, too.
| Quote: | | The nineteen year old was much more open to it because "I would like to meet his folks, and if he lived with them I could always use that for reasons not to become physically intimate if I didn't want to." |
| Mw99 wrote: | | I see no need for my hypothetical girlfriend to meet my folks and viceversa. I also see no need for me to meet her folks either. |
there it is, Mw99, having a boyfriend is usually an audition for a lifemate that is involved in all family relationships. So no, I don't see any of those women OK with not sharing their families and not expecting to share your's too. So, you're right. Those women are not looking for the same thing you are.
| Quote: | | The 25 year olds were the most vocal about it being a turn off/ deal breaker because as one put it "I am looking for a man that can take care of himself so he will appreciate me when I look after him" |
| Mw99 wrote: | | The fact that I live at home does not mean I can't take care of myself or that I wouldn't appreciate someone looking after me. |
| Mw99 wrote: | | You should have told those young women that the hypothetical man in question is not like most men his age. (And I mean "not like most men his age" not because he lives at his parents' home.) |
oh, OK. It never occurred to me to make your excuses for you. Good luck in convincing NTs that we should be cut a different break for being Aspies!
all the best, and happy new year!
Merle |
I guess it means I'll die like the beta male that I am. |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mw99 I'm just asking a purely logical question here, but how could you date a girl, not wanting her to meet your parents, when you live with them? At some time it's going to happen, and it seems logical to introduce them since it is their house, right? |
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Mw99
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 1232
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| merr wrote: | | Mw99 I'm just asking a purely logical question here, but how could you date a girl, not wanting her to meet your parents, when you live with them? At some time it's going to happen, and it seems logical to introduce them since it is their house, right? |
Why would I ever want to bring my hypothetical girlfriend to my parent's house? |
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