Page 6 of 16 [ 241 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 16  Next

Danielismyname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,565

27 Jan 2008, 7:38 am

It goes PDD-NOS (atypical autism for example), Asperger's and then autistic disorder in prevalence.

Most individuals are in the "middle" of the spectrum; you have those like me on the "high" end, and then those who cannot do...anything on the "low" end. Most fall between the extremes.

The "middle" would probably be seen as "LFA" around most autism forums; it's not.



KingdomOfRats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,833
Location: f'ton,manchester UK

27 Jan 2008, 8:40 am

Danielismyname wrote:
It goes PDD-NOS (atypical autism for example), Asperger's and then autistic disorder in prevalence.

Most individuals are in the "middle" of the spectrum; you have those like me on the "high" end, and then those who cannot do...anything on the "low" end. Most fall between the extremes.

The "middle" would probably be seen as "LFA" around most autism forums; it's not.

Am have lived with auties who meet the definition of a lot of peoples traditional 'LFA', before-some were profoundly MR but they still were able to do things and were expected to,guess it depends on what is classed as the doing something,am used to know of some young adults from the adjoined respite unit in that place, who were profoundly mentally and physically disabled [not autistic], they also regulary stopped breathing,they were able to do some things however with the right help in place [going out visiting places,going to meadowside day centre etc].


_________________
>severely autistic.
>>the residential autist; http://theresidentialautist.blogspot.co.uk
blogging from the view of an ex institutionalised autism/ID activist now in community care.
>>>help to keep bullying off our community,report it!


Danielismyname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,565

27 Jan 2008, 8:52 am

KingdomOfRats, I generally define those who are unable to do "anything" as those who'd die if left to their own devices (i.e., cannot execute the function of eating). Albeit, these individuals are in the minority, much like those who can form relationships, work, and function reasonably well with good chances of independent living (with or without help).

Most fall in between these two extremes; those who cannot form relationships, but who'd want to, those who cannot work, but who'd want to--I cannot see why a "cure" (medical treatment would be a better term) would be so evil for these people who want to do "normal" things.



elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 3:37 pm

The crippled animal, who has known nothing more, retracts from efforts to improve in fear and confusion.

The mouse will not leave the cage it has known all it's life.

The abused dog in the crate will not leave for fear.

When the mouse is forced out, it goes mad.

The crippled, non-verbal, sensory overloaded, stimming person who has typed communication abilities, must, in the face of the public that wants to help him, reject any help because there has never been help. He waited, there was nothing, so now he must reject any further efforts because he has no hope.

They speak from within their Aspergers, and as such are formally limited from being moral agents on their behalf.

The walls of autism are very high. They spent most of their lives getting used to them, and now they depend on them, and are afraid to look over, and object to attempts to help them up. They retreat to within their walls. Why? Some possible explanations are in my original post: Anti-cure Cowardice? http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54644.html

Please be bold to try to stretch your understanding beyond your limits, and accept the possibility that a major treatment or cure would be good, and not change who you are, but rather perhaps lift the myriad of great sensory symptoms and allow yourselves to fly higher.



elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 3:43 pm

The walls are so high that what is outside of them is viewed as the Wrong Planet.



elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 3:49 pm

And the walls are kept high and strong.

And what is inside the walls is viewed as the Right Planet.

The walls are the limits of the autistic mind, formally limited from seeing beyond, and understandably so. The congenitally blind person vehemently objecting to the so called benefits of the sighted world. Fear keeps her away from the possibility of something else, and she may exclaim that the sightless world is good itself, and perhaps better than anything else.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

27 Jan 2008, 4:18 pm

Yea Right! The Curbie Profit.

Still trolling and triple posting, do you troll yourself often?

I would give your fake autism writing style a D-.

In all your rambling bull you have not shown me any evidence that you are autistic.

How are things going with CAN and Autism Speaks? It seems you get paid by the word.



TLPG
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 693

27 Jan 2008, 4:47 pm

Inventor wrote:
It is not Science Fiction, it is history, and in 1960, you would not be a a University, but locked up for life.


:thumright: :thumright: :thumright:

Goes for the rest of that post as well! Brilliance, Inventor! Couldn't have said it better myself!



SleepyDragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2007
Age: 68
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,829
Location: One f?tid lair or another.

27 Jan 2008, 5:06 pm

What I find amusing is the insistence on big, high, blocky walls. I experience it as a porous, semi-permeable membrane. Sometimes the resistance comes from me. Sometimes from the other person. Sometimes there is no barrier at all. :)



AspieDave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 568
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

27 Jan 2008, 6:29 pm

:lol: :lol:

"trapped" in my own mind??? I'm a visual Aspie, I've walked a thousand worlds... traveled in time, warped space and time and dimensions to travel anywhere and when... I can go anywhere I read... or my imagination can devise. I don't see NT's doing that... I consider them trapped, not me. I don't fear my mind, I fear the unthinking masses taking it from me "for my own good".


_________________
I tried to get in touch with my feminine side.... but it got a restraining order.....


elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 9:53 pm

Inventor wrote:
How are things going with CAN and Autism Speaks? It seems you get paid by the word.


Autism Speaks (CAN is no longer, but has merged with Autism Speaks) is a reprehensible money seeking and money making entity, where people have as their first priority to make money for themselves from incredible donor seeking efforts (advertising, promotion marketing, travel, etc), and to make money from boasting about seeking a cure and preying upon the hopes of those with autism and caregivers and others, and each year boasting about "advancements" in medicine, detection, and treatment thus preying more upon the hopes of others for the purpose of getting more and more money. They write books about autism and their kids and boasted treatment interventions, so they can make money themselves ... and go on book tours for this purpose. And then many with autism write books and take part in this money seeking, to make money off of the autism community.

Kim Peek's father uses him as a circus act in school gymnasiums to make a lot of money ... circus demonstrations of Kim's great memory for certain facts, dates, numbers, events, people's names, etc.

Autism Speaks has no basis to EVER claim they are seeking a cure, BECAUSE, they have never gotten close to one -- never, I'd argue, even 0.1% closer to one out of a 100% standard (where 100% is a cure). They are grotesque money seeking people.



NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

27 Jan 2008, 10:35 pm

Elain_i, I'm digressing some, but it seems like a majority on this board hates Autism Speaks. It's odd that the community of Aspergers hates organizations helping Autistics, who are clinically more severe on the spectrum. Most of the Autism organizations out there promote cures and better medical care and lives for Autistics. That's just the way it is. They're not trying to offend anybody. They're trying to give a better life to hundreds of thousands of people. And, that takes money. Lots of it.

Now, here's my question: Where are the Asperger organizations? Are those better? Do the organizations that support, help and advocate for Asperger people anti-cure? Or, do the Autism organizations speak for EVERYONE on the spectrum and since you are all proud Aspies you resent it? Would it be better if Autistic Organizations had a disclaimer that says, "We only speak for those who want treatment, cure, and better life on the spectrum. We do not want to offend those on the spectrum that don't." That way, it doesn't offend the Asperger community at large and it will sway the anti-cure folks from giving them money. But, if they did that, then the Asperger community would say, "How come they don't speak for us? Do they think we don't count?"

You're a tough crowd to win over.



elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 10:52 pm

I was just responding to Inventor's speculation that my original post http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54644.html and subsequent posts showed that I am with Autism Speaks or something similar.

In my original post, implicit is my general view on treatment and cure.

NewportBeachDude wrote:
Would it be better if Autistic Organizations had a disclaimer that says, "We only speak for those who want treatment, cure, and better life on the spectrum. We do not want to offend those on the spectrum that don't."
The notion of a "better life" is a moral notion, so this wouldn't be neutral. The could say "normal" and then make it clear they mean "medically normal" and try to explain that with no reference to any moral notions, which I think they could probably craftily do, but at the core, the conception of normal is a moral one -- being normal is better because people have better lives when normal. They try to avoid this though.

But anyway, I think the anti-cure persons try to advocate for all autistic people, and you will often find them, like "Anbund" here to speak for all autistic people with "WE don't want" this and that, "WE believe" this and that, etc. Not only this, but they will try to persuade other autistic people that they SHOULD NOT want a cure.

They also conceive of a cure as something that will change them so fundamentally that they will cease to be the people they once were, and this is mere fear and speculation. And they try to instill this fear in others.

In my original post I outlined some possible reasons and explanations and factors for several of the anti-cure anti-major treatment views, and none of them have been addressed yet. Only the same-old-story is being told by others in response ... the same simplistic perspective, the same ideas.



AspieDave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 568
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

27 Jan 2008, 11:01 pm

Hmmmm NewportBeachDude.... Call us the "silent majority", of the spectrum anyway... the hidden Aspie's in the world. I think that's who you're referring to, we're the ones who mostly aren't diagnosed, in most cases never heard of Asperger's except some bit on the news you ignored, and who have made accommodations with the NT world. We exist with you but not OF you. We are a HELL of a lot more than "1 in 150". Just because we made accommodations, just because we can take light and sound and other stimuli, doesn't mean we aren't wired differently. We DON'T think the same way NT's do. We don't process information the same way. And we DON'T think we're broken.

If I were to walk up to an NT co-worker, say "hey, you know... I really think we can help you. See, we'll 'cure' you of this disability you have, thinking in such a limited fashion, and being so motivated by what others think of you rather than what you think of yourself... We can give you this little shot and you'll be CURED!! ! You can have Asperger's just like me.... won't that be WONDERFUL???"

Since 80% of my co-workers are women, I'm sure I'd get my head slapped off... and I'd damn well deserve it... Now, if you can UNDERSTAND the viewpoint, maybe you can understand why it's offensive. If not, well damn... I hope we can get you that shot REAL soon now. :twisted:


_________________
I tried to get in touch with my feminine side.... but it got a restraining order.....


NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

27 Jan 2008, 11:01 pm

Elain_i, thank you for clearing that up. I agree with what you're saying. I also struggle with the word 'better.' Especially in dialogues like this. "Better life." Yes, who's to say what's better? That term alone would have to be defined. In a nutshell, meaning a life less restrictive and more independent, with less intervention. See, many here have never had a life like that so they don't know what I'm talking about.

AspieDave, I don't think Aspies are "broken" either, but I do think Autistics and parents of Autistics have a right to want a cure and seek any treatment. The same as you have a right to not want one. Peace, dude.



elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

27 Jan 2008, 11:12 pm

AspieDave wrote:
If I were to walk up to an NT co-worker, say "hey, you know... I really think we can help you. See, we'll 'cure' you of this disability you have, thinking in such a limited fashion, and being so motivated by what others think of you rather than what you think of yourself... We can give you this little shot and you'll be CURED!! ! You can have Asperger's just like me.... won't that be WONDERFUL???"


I'm sorry to put it like this, but your reasoning is profoundly irrational. Profoundly so, and I think it is actually common among many with autism and Aspergers. What do I mean by 'irrational'. I mean it is so if you think that it is a consideration for a NT person to become LESS FUNCTIONAL due to (1) a myriad of aversive sensory symptoms COMPARED to what they are as a NT, and, (2) due to encountering severe impairments in non-verbal and verbal communication COMPARED to what they are as an NT person, severe limitations in their social, emotional, and intellectual abilities, etc COMPARED to what they are as a NT person.

Again, being Aspergers for an NT person is not a rational consideration, and please note that the following hypothetical arrangement seems to show the irrationality of your thinking. As well, your reasoning seems accord with some or many of the factors, reasons, and explanations I listed in my original post http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54644.html
------------------------------------------
Hypothetically, any neurotypical who has entered into a state of autism or Aspergers, for whatever period of time, would without any question object to it, and want to re-enter their previous state of non-autism. It is this hypothetical certainty that undermines all of your views and your approach, as well as others like you. This hypothetical certainty establishes that (1) autism and Aspergers is not preferable to non-autism, (2) it is highly irrational for anyone to prefer autism, and (3) it is likely the case that many autistic people prefer autism themselves because they know of nothing else in their experience.

A related hypothetical:

Hypothetically, any autistic person who has entered into a state of being neurotypical (for a period of time) would almost certainly prefer this over being autistic. There would be no aversive sensory symptoms (visual, auditory, tactile, gustatory, etc), no communication impairments (varying levels of severe impairment in non-verbal communicative exchange and verbal communication), no severe social impairments, no repetitive physical behaviors, no restriction of interests, etc. As for the time the autistic person, hypothetically, would be experiencing being a neurotypical, of course it is foolish to say that after experiencing being a neurotypical for 1 hour most autistic people would prefer being a neurotypical. Of course, in this hypothetical arrangement, various considerations like this would have to be discussed further. Perhaps an appropriate hypothetical trial period with being neurotypical would be 1 full day, or 1 week, or 1 month, or longer. Perhaps at the start of being, hypothetically, neurotypical, the autistic person would encounter severe anxiety at the change, and reject the change, much like setting a mouse free, from the 1 foot by 1 foot cage it has known for all it's life, into the wild environment, and how the mouse might freeze and be consumed with anxiety and actually try to get back into the cage.



Last edited by elan_i on 27 Jan 2008, 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.