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autism_diva
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Joined: Dec 14, 2007
Posts: 224
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't be surprised if parents of ASD kids (who are frequently on the spectrum themselves) get accused of Munchhausen's by proxy more often than non ASD parents. I have never been accused of it, but I spent a couple of years being afraid of it because one of the traits/signs/symptoms of Munchhausens' by proxy (or it's what I read back then in the 1980's or 90's) was that the parent had lots of medical vocabulary. Well, I knew all the pertinent hospital type vocabulary because I needed it and I'm very good at remembering vocabulary. Nurses would ask me if I was a nurse (I would never want to be a nurse) because I knew terms that most moms don't use. To me it's about being precise... anyway... no one ever hinted that they thought my kid was being harmed by me. My kid never had infections which I guess is one easy way to get a kid sick, and my kid never had broken bones or burns or overdoses or any of those suspicious looking things.
I was always comforted a bit by the fact that I had a history of NOT going to the doctor myself and of not taking my kids to the doctor for every little cold or scratch (though I did take them in for check ups and the ASD kid was having surgeries which is why we were in the hospital and I was needing to know these medical terms).
I know a mom who has a 20 year old ASD daughter, the mom was accused of causing her daughter's health problems a couple of years ago. This young woman has some unusual health problems (her heart stopped a few times as a baby, but it wasn't because the mom was smothering her or anything of the sort, it was because she has a specific heart problem) Well, the mom didn't have a way to cause the problems the young woman had in her teens (like a brush with anorexia, and serious anemia from being on an antipsychotic that the mom never suggested she be on), but the mom was still accused of this possibly by a really mean relative who was actually more likely to have tried to keep the girl sickly and who thought the antipsychotic prescription was a really good idea.
as an aside...
I know the Munchhausen's by proxy label shouldn't be thrown around lightly, but if you read what some of the "mercury moms" and "biomed" moms do to their kids, you really got to start wondering if they enjoy watching their kids get endless numbers of blood draws and endless quantities of IV's of questionable fluids and their being put into toy mHBOT balloons and so forth. DAN! dox are wonderful for paying attention to their clients, it's what quacks do. Straight doctors are not so fawning, but quacks play mommy and best friend to their patients which is one reason why they are so attractive.
| anbuend wrote: | Often the "by proxy" type is used wrongly as an accusation towards caregivers of disabled children. This is especially common in the UK but happens in the USA as well. It is used as evidence to get children out of their families by accusing the parents of inducing their disability.
It does exist. I have a friend whose son was adopted by a woman who probably killed her first adoptive daughter through making her do things to induce diseases. My friend last I heard was terrified that her son will be next, because the adoptive mother has been having him even when he was only a tiny child diagnosed as psychotic to get him on medications. The symptoms she described only happen when she has access to him, they disappear when she is not around.
But around me it was used towards someone near me once who was not engaging in it. At that time hearing the word I thought it was me who was considered doing that, but it wasn't, it was something even more disgusting, which was insurance companies manipulating another person in my life by getting them diagnosed with that. My real psychiatrist and psychologist almost didn't tell the person because of how stupid and ridiculous it was. I heard it only thirdhand through hearing conversations so I thought people were talking about me, but they weren't. (This page shows a whole lot of stories very similar to what was happening, although I think it goes too far by saying this form of abuse doesn't exist, because it does.)
Some people have taken things I've said about this incident as meaning I have it, but that's really stupid and ends up being all about not knowing the whole story. Every physical condition I have had, has eventually been confirmed by either proper testing or (in the case of things like autism, which was both suspected and confirmed before I was ever even aware what it was) interviews of a variety of people who knew me from infancy.
It is a really popular thing to question whether autistic people are really autistic though. It betrays, at least to me, a high reliance on medicalistic views of our lives. I have a few friends who despite being autistic, avoid the autistic community because of the kind of pointless gossip about who's real and who's not. This sort of discussion can be really destructive to people too... I know someone who quit a mailing list I was on because there was too much discussion of this, and he'd just been denied housing in the real world because he wasn't considered "really autistic enough". When someone is vulnerable because of that much personal devastation, encountering all this stuff about who's real and who's not, and who can prove it, can be even more devastating, making them wary of reaching out to the community. This sort of stuff basically just seems to feed into the exact sorts of thinking that keep autistic people down, and I regret the tiny number of times that I have engaged in it in the past, because it's really easy not to know the whole story, but to think you do -- and to ruin people's lives as a result. I still need to apologize to someone I accused of not being real, when it looked really really obvious they were pretending to be someone they weren't... and then it turned out I hadn't known, that they were adopting an online alias as they'd been instructed to for personal safety. You can't know everything and sometimes it's better not to judge. |
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scumsuckingdouchebag
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | More people have hypochondria, Munchausen is rare. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochondriac
| Quote: | | Cyberchondria is a colloquial term for hypochondria in individuals who have researched medical conditions on the internet. The media and the internet often contribute to hypochondria, as articles, TV shows and advertisements regarding serious illnesses such as cancer and multiple sclerosis (some of the common diseases hypochondriacs think they have) often portray these diseases as being random, obscure and somewhat inevitable. Inaccurate portrayal of risk and the identification of non-specific symptoms as signs of serious illness contribute to exacerbating the hypochondriac's fear that they actually have that illness. |
That was interesting. Which is why it is important to see a psychologist in regard to ASDs before concluding with certainty you actually have one. If I'm a hypochondriac as such, my problems can go away; I've put considerable effort into making them go away without success but then could also be all in my head anyway. Obsess over the possibilities, I most certainly have done that! A consequence of having too much time on your hands combined with some unexplained deficets here and there along with a childhood history that suggests such a condition will lead to considering the possibility of having such a condition. And even with the chronic introspection that comes with considering the possibility of AS, I must admit, studying this stuff is very interesting by itself and has become a hobby of its own that has taken up copious amounts of time just trying to learn how this condition affects others and this society.
I wonder how many people here are just quirky extreme introverts with poor common sense. That could describe me too, but like any other explanation, leaves its share of unexplained variables and conditions. I wonder how many people are misdiagnosed with AS/HFA due to their personality type by an inept psychiatrist(which is why psychologists are better for this task, IMO, since they're more likely to have better tools for assessment).
In order to know who is 'real' and who isn't, you'd probably have to see them in person. In the case of DanielIsMyName, he showed proof of it, and he's a severe case. Also, there are probably a large number of false positives for AS in this society as well, and also some disagreement upon who would actually fit the criteria for the condition. I know a person online who went undiagnosed with the condition until he was 20 years old, and functioned perfectly normal until then without any suspicions of having had the condition in childhood, with the exception of being a social outcast from middle school onward. |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7300
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Hypochondria is an anxiety disorder. They are genuinely fearful they are ill, whereas Munchausen is pathological lies. |
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frields
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 09, 2008
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | Speaking of faking disabilities, there was a guy who faked having mental retardation and he pretended to have a mind of a three year old just so he could get away with grabbing his caregivers breasts. His mother went along with it and hired caregivers for her son but he was eventually arrested. I wonder how someone found out he was faking it. Maybe he was caught talking to his mother and the police were called and sexual assault was reported.
I wonder if it's even illegal to fake conditons. I know it's illegal to cheat the gov. system.
There was a mother in Tacoma, Washington who had her sons pretend they were mentally retarded so she get social security. She started coaching her sons when they were 4 to act that way and at age 26 one of them was caught on camera at the bank talking about his check so that's how SSI knew it was all fraud and the mother got in trouble and so did the kids. I think that article was posted on here in the news section awhile back. I thought it was sick and worst of all, putting her kids through it when they were little and they grew up to be frauds because they went along with it. Still not fair for the child. It's taking away their life in the future because they are being taught to be criminals. |
Unreal.
But but, while they're faking, they're sick too, but another sickness -- Factitious Disorder Malingering Disorder.
I have to check the difference between the two. One is centered around profit, the other around non-profit sympathy. One is non-for-profit 
its a serious personality disorder, very serious. It itself deserves sympathy ok! So I understand Spokane Girl the focus on what they're doing that's wrong. But we must IMHO look at WHY they're doing this. It's a PERSONALITY DISORDER that is quite serious.
Those with Factitious will DENY IT ALL at all cost. The second you critizize them AT ALL LOOK OUT! They will go on the attack, sometimes physical yea, but usually verbal and through the Internet and also through gossip and spreading lies and rumors to attack back. They often will also destroy you're property to get back attack back. Watch when you diagnose someone with Factitious. |
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Brittany2907
Self-Proclaimed Animal Lover
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 4736
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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A little while ago I saw a documentary on discovery channel about a mother with Munchausen syndrome. She poisoned her child for 7 years to try and get sympathy from her ex-partner when they had to meet in the hospital for their sons sake.
I have to say that I think this is a VERY weird disorder.  Poisoning your own kid to get yourself attention is just...so wrong.
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frields
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 09, 2008
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 0_equals_true wrote: | | Hypochondria is an anxiety disorder. They are genuinely fearful they are ill, whereas Munchausen is pathological lies. |
Yes pathological lies, but being pathological, a disorder also. Check my last post. Factitious Disorder and Malingering Disorder and Münchhausen are DISORDERS themselves DSM diagnostic and statistical manual of mental illnesses. |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7300
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| frields wrote: | | 0_equals_true wrote: | | Hypochondria is an anxiety disorder. They are genuinely fearful they are ill, whereas Munchausen is pathological lies. |
Yes pathological lies, but being pathological, a disorder also. Check my last post. Factitious Disorder and Malingering Disorder and Münchhausen are DISORDERS themselves DSM diagnostic and statistical manual of mental illnesses. |
Sure I understand that however the causes of such disorders are various and may be difficult if not impossible to treat let alone cure.
I think the work personality disorder is over used however. |
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riverotter
River Otter
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 1020
Location: here and now
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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There are a couple of things I would like to add to this discussion-
Spokane Girl (in case you were unaware of this), "unreal" is an expression not of disbelief of your statement, but that the actions were described were so out of the usual and were reprehensible.
Also, if someone were attempting a psychiatric or ASD condition, it would not be Munchausen's or Munchausen's by proxy, and is therefore a completely separate topic. Someone with Munchausen's would, for instance, convince doctors to do abdominal exploratory surgery to find the cause of "mystery" pain...then get complications somehow...like more abdominal pain...and love every minute of being sick and having the pillow fluffed and the straw bent just so, and seem to like having the colostomy bag they end up with eventually after so many of these surgeries. And getting pain medicine exactly every three hours. I have seen this, more than once, and it's creepy. Since (because of liability etc) a doctor can't just say "It's all in your head; all your scans are normal, even though everybody knows that the patient has Munchausen's nobody can say it to the person herself (have only seen this happen with females.)
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richardbenson
Evil Egocentrical Existencialism
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10802
Location: Here snow will always fall
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| riverotter wrote: | | Someone with Munchausen's would, for instance, convince doctors to do abdominal exploratory surgery to find the cause of "mystery" pain...then get complications somehow... |
like this?
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp284496.html&highlight=#284496
Because I had whats called Prococious Puberty starting at age 4. From what I know prococious puberty is common in intersexed and especially with CAH. Basically I had something start a surge of androgens in the body that start converting to estrogens. Upon examination they found I have an extra apendage and going to male doctors of course I became their new toy to show off to other drs. They wanted to do exploratory surgery to look for an ova-teste. I begged my mom not to let them do surgery so between her being half Native American therefore hating western medicine and my dad being a cheapskate and not wanting to incur more bills I was saved from having the surgery.
Now in my 30's drs have started discovering I'm different again. They still can't explain my raging hormone levels. I don't test positive for CAH or ovarian cysts or a pituitary tumor which are all the possibilities they can come up with other than I may have testicular tissue somewhere that is producing the androgens. In fact I'm scheduled for another MRI to look again for the tumor that apparently doesn't exist. Yeah I just love to keep them guessing. The drs won't listen to me, but I think I am a chimera because I was suppose to have a stillborn twin brother according to my mom. So I think I absorbed some of his DNA. I mean that's what I look like with the extra tissue and not like the classic intersexed pictures I've seen. Though chimerism is now considered a form of intersexed. Chimerism would also explain my having autoimmune diseases which no one else in family has ever had. From what I understand my mom was given DES to conceive so that's probably why I ended up like this.
BTW- I noticed even though it says this is a women's only forum that men often visit here. Guys for some reason are entralled with the idea of intersex and for the record I am not interested guys and no you can't get a photo. I've had offers from men all over the world who troll intersex boards; its kinda pathetic. I'm only interested in women and very few of them at that.
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riverotter
River Otter
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Age: 37
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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So are you saying that doctors are accusing you of Munchausen's, i.e. taking hormones or steroids to create symptoms?
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richardbenson
Evil Egocentrical Existencialism
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10802
Location: Here snow will always fall
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| riverotter wrote: | | So are you saying that doctors are accusing you of Munchausen's, i.e. taking hormones or steroids to create symptoms? |
that isnt about me, did you click the link?
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Gem quality Fire Agate has been found only in parts of California, Arizona, and Mexico. Despite the fact that this gemstone may never become mass merchandised it has created a small yet devoted following among those who apprechiate its beauty |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 10132
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | riverotter wrote: | | So are you saying that doctors are accusing you of Munchausen's, i.e. taking hormones or steroids to create symptoms? |
that isnt about me, did you click the link? |
You missed the mark. It's a couple of posts up from the link.
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riverotter
River Otter
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Age: 37
Posts: 1020
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | that isnt about me, did you click the link? |
Oh whoops I did- but you pasted it in this thread in a format that made me think you had written it- sorry.
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