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NeantHumain Phoenix

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Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 4057 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: Could Narcissism Benefit Us? |
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I've deliberately decided to start a topic on something highly controversial; nevertheless, I believe it merits serious discussion (please see also my first response to My Obsessive Mind (With Apologies) for the inspiration). One psychoanalyst who wrote a book (gee whiz!) called narcissism "character armor" because it so effectively deflects all emotional ambivalence (the self is the source of all good, and everything else is a minor obstacle to be overcome). Perhaps many of us aspies would have an easier time getting along in the NT world if we had tougher character armor. Some of us are just bundles of raw nerves, waiting to be irritated into emotional overload and autistic meltdown.
I propose that, if we aspies became "tough sh*t," we would receive more liking from NTness and woo all the ladies too. We would still, at core, have Asperger's syndrome and have some social reciprocity deficits, but the attitude would appeal to a multitude of NeuroTypicals. Much research into the narcissistic personality (in adaptive and psychopathological varieties) focuses on different dimensions of attitude and behavior: optimism, self-reliance, effect attribution, exhibitionism, grandiosity, leadership/competitiveness/aggression, and emotional coolness; self-esteem is considered to be a separate factor, a lack of which leads the narcissistic traits to be more maladaptive. (Please see also Do You Have a Narcissistic Personality?)
Many of us probably have a few narcissistic personality traits or occasional manifestations of narcissism (i.e., undeserved sense of entitlement, fake friendliness, deceitful and manipulative behavior, lack of interpersonal emotional sensitivity, a feeling of specialness or uniqueness, a desire for admiration or praise, arrogant or contemptuous attitude, and feelings of omnipotence or other such vanity).
Now the question is what aspects of you are somewhat narcissistic?
For example, in my case, I am confident—in so much as self-confidence is an attribute of narcissism—that I will do well academically. This has largely been true in the past; but, with my building apathy, I am having to remember to crack down to pull off the grades I'm used to earning. More broadly, I have confidence that I can accomplish almost anything I seriously want to attempt as long as I put the effort into it; the one exception is the social domain.
I also consider myself to be mostly self-sufficient except financially, and I'm working on that one. I value independence in thought and action highly; I dislike being bound by excessive obligations whose exact duties I may not know when agreeing to the obligation (thus, I avoid making many promises, preferring to surprise people with kindness and generosity instead) and dislike even more obligations I am forced to submit to against my will (my actions are in accord, but my will shall never bend). I also value originality and creativity as an extension of this valuing independence. I think of meticulousness, efficiency, duty, and rigor as lesser ideals.
Also, when my principles are at stake, I do not relish backing down. I dislike conflict, but there are times when I feel I must stand up for myself and what I believe in. In these cases, my resolve is almost ferocious (not in some destructive display but simply in the strength of my will). In times of conflict, I actually become less nervous and more resolute; it's a learned response, probably. |
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animallover Phoenix


Joined: Jun 23, 2004 Posts: 762
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think narcissim has a positive side - though I don't know that I would call it narcissim - I would call it being self centered (as oppossed to self absorbed) - it forces you to think about what YOU can do in a situation vs. getting so bogged down by others aren't doing that you make yourself worthless . . .
The example that I use is of this person that I know who is very upset by the stray animal problem - so upset that she refuses to look at it and do anything because she feels like it won't do any good . . .
Me, on the other hand, am completely unconcered with what other people are doing and merrily feed stray animals and get them spayed/neutered when I can afford it and even adopt some for my outdoor colony if there is space availble . . .
This is the benefit of being self centered |
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Sophist ENTIA NON SVNT MVLTIPLICANDA PRAETER NECESSITATEM


Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 6214 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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People might admire the doggedness of the Narcissist (sometimes, like on television to an extent). But people can't stand to be around him or her for very long. It's an arm's length admiration at most.
I recommend self confidence over narcissism. _________________ Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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NeantHumain Phoenix

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Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 4057 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: | People might admire the doggedness of the Narcissist (sometimes, like on television to an extent). But people can't stand to be around him or her for very long. It's an arm's length admiration at most.
I recommend self confidence over narcissism. |
There is a dimensional as well as adaptive difference between adaptive narcissism and malignant narcissism. A healthy narcissism is apparently little more than a healthy self-confidence and optimism combined with a bit of emotional detachment (yet enough to remain empathetic; the detachment only enables the person to step back at times and examine a situation). The two contrasting poles seem to be insecurity/dependence and narcissism. Probably the side to err on is a bit of narcissism—not enough to become self-absorbed, mind you. |
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herbivore Blue Jay


Joined: Nov 07, 2005 Posts: 78 Location: a wee bit outside of reality
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Could Narcissism Benefit Us? |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
]For example, in my case, I am confident—in so much as self-confidence is an attribute of narcissism—that I will do well academically. This has largely been true in the past; but, with my building apathy, I am having to remember to crack down to pull off the grades I'm used to earning. More broadly, I have confidence that I can accomplish almost anything I seriously want to attempt as long as I put the effort into it; the one exception is the social domain.
I also consider myself to be mostly self-sufficient except financially, and I'm working on that one. I value independence in thought and action highly; I dislike being bound by excessive obligations whose exact duties I may not know when agreeing to the obligation (thus, I avoid making many promises, preferring to surprise people with kindness and generosity instead) and dislike even more obligations I am forced to submit to against my will (my actions are in accord, but my will shall never bend). I also value originality and creativity as an extension of this valuing independence. I think of meticulousness, efficiency, duty, and rigor as lesser ideals.
Also, when my principles are at stake, I do not relish backing down. I dislike conflict, but there are times when I feel I must stand up for myself and what I believe in. In these cases, my resolve is almost ferocious (not in some destructive display but simply in the strength of my will). In times of conflict, I actually become less nervous and more resolute; it's a learned response, probably. |
Aargh, get out of my head. Just kidding. But seriously, it's like you reached down, and pulled out...me. |
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Nomaken Phoenix


Joined: Jun 10, 2005 Posts: 2059 Location: 31726 Windsor, Garden City, Michigan, 48135
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I know as a matter of fact that i have not a stitch of emotional armor. If any of you say something even remotely hurtful to me it affects me. Luckily most of the typical sh** which would offend people doesnt offend me. Cause i know it is true. Now that may be just my low self esteem, but i dont think so, because i am a very happy, joyous and playful person who loves everybody.
Twas an effective self defense mechanism i think. It is disarming to others when their taunting is not responded with offense.
somebody: "You're fat!"
me: "Damn strait! Git in Mah belly!" *giggle giggle giggle*
somebody: "O_o!"
I *think* I prefer having no armor however because i am never embarassed about talking about my emotions, or my opinions, and i can connect with people very deeply at the drop of a hat.
I think such a lack of armor is actually a very precious gift, it is just people like us have grown up around people who are accustomed to people with much stronger armor, and arent expecting people like us to be so sensative. We just need to find the right group of people to interact with and we'll probably bring something very precious to that group. _________________ And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
My body is a channel that translates energy from the universe into happiness.
I either express information, or consume it. I am debating which to do right now.
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Metal_Mushroom Hummingbird


Joined: Nov 03, 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Some healthy properties of narcissism could be harnessed to provide a positive outcome.
Malignant narcissists have a use too.... They can be used to test the effectiveness of woodchippers.... feet first.... _________________ "On hallucinogenic "uplift"
I can step out of my body
Religion is in myself
I'll split my head in two and see you twice" |
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NeantHumain Phoenix

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Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 4057 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Nomaken wrote: | | I think such a lack of armor is actually a very precious gift, it is just people like us have grown up around people who are accustomed to people with much stronger armor, and arent expecting people like us to be so sensative. We just need to find the right group of people to interact with and we'll probably bring something very precious to that group. |
In your case, you've probably learned to accept your weaknesses and apparent weaknesses as well as your strengths. You have a sort of "character armor," but it's not of the maladaptive repressing or projecting variety; you choose humor and sublimation.
I myself am perfectly content with expressing what's good about me as well as what isn't. In fact, knowing people's strengths and weaknesses is a good start in learning how to get along better with people. Is it so bad if I tell people I'm kind of lazy, a little lacking in social skills, somewhat self-indulgent, not very mathematically inclined, and somewhat shy in addition to letting them know about my good qualities? For example, employment interviewers could better assess where in the company a prospective employee would best fit if they had some awareness of what that person doesn't do well in addition to what they do do well.
New friends wouldn't have to discover a person's character flaws at an inopportune moment, causing hurt feelings all around.
I think it takes bravery to admit what you can't do well and what your character flaws are. |
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