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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice!!! Let me tell you why I think your dialogue is done well. For one thing, when people start writing, the dialogue comes out one of two ways - too flat and boring, or overly expository. In writing fiction, the way characters talk to each other isn't quite the way we talk to each other in real life. Instead, they talk for a reason - to move the plot forward. If it's done right, one gets an idea of the personality and story behind the person speaking. Your dialogue accomplishes that very well!
Thanks for posting this, I enjoyed reading your chapter.
Best wishes & do keep writing!
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Zmason
Hummingbird
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much. However, since you've seen the best, I feel obliged to show you probably the worst of the novel. Here my Jane Austen influence shows like a red flag. Its the battle between her and a siren (in case you do not know what a siren is, its a greek mythological creature that sings so sweetly no one can resist its beauty) in the first chalange to get the Queen of Hearts locket. Abigail, however, has the power of the bard with her, so she might be able to sing the siren to sleep? I'm not trying to diminish your comment, I take it to heart, having so few people to review my work. I had a hard time coming up with two people who know me outside of my familiy for references for a job application recently. Anyway, no more delaying. Here it is, for what its worth. As you can see, other than the italics, which indicate thoughts, you don't know what she's singing and what she's thinking. Any suggestions?
The cauldrons flared, and lit up the room. The siren woke from its slumber, and seeing a human to sing for, took position to sing.
“Enchantra, leave. Its Bardic music versus Grecian lyrics. And I have the bard within me.”
Enchantra was about to pull her back when she started singing.
“When Irish eyes are smiling, it’s like a morning spring. In the lilt of Irish laughter, you can hear the angels sing...”
The siren started signing. Instantly, Abigail’s knee’s weakened. In a softer, pleasured voice, she continued.
“When Irish hearts are happy, all the world seems bright and gay...
She needed a stronger song. She was beginning to sway in time with the siren. She needed something to go in between her singing and the siren’s voice. Processing three things at once seemed impossible, but necessary.
“And when Irish eyes are smiling, sure they steal your heart away.”
She switched songs quickly, not letting the siren getting a word in edgewise.
“The dames of France are fond and free, and Flemish lips are willing...”
I=PRT, E=MC squared, D=M/V, F=MA...
“And soft the maids of Italy and Spanish eyes are thrilling, still, though I bask beneath their smile...”
A=(4/3)pi times R cubed. D=C times pi. A=pi times R squared.
“Their charms fail to bind me, and my heart goes back to Erien’s Isle, to the girl I left behind me.”
A=(1/3) base times height, A= (1/2... I mean 1/3 times base times pi time R squared...
She needed something with a rhythm, the siren was taking over the stage. She started in the most militaristic voice a woman under her strain could muster, trying not to be swept away by the lovely siren’s melody.
“While going the road to sweet Athy, huroo, huroo! While going the road to sweet Athy huroo, huroo! While going the road to sweet Athy A stick in me hand and a drop in me eye, a doleful damsel I heard cry, Johnny I hardly knew ye...”
(A+B)+C=A+(B+C), I before E except after B... I mean C, The head bone is connected to the leg.... I mean neck bone...
As she sang, figuratively juggling pumpkins, she noticed that even with her eyes closed, she could see the siren. And it was getting softer and sleepy! She tossed aside the knowledge barrier, and sang for all she was worth.
“Where are your eyes that were so mild, huroo, huroo? Where are your eyes that were so mild huroo, huroo? Where are your eyes hat were so mild, when my poor heart you first beguiled, why did ye run from me and the child, Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye...”
Now the singing was really soft, and the siren had trouble standing.
“Where are you legs that used to run, Huroo, Huroo? Where are the legs that used to run Huroo, Huroo? Where are your legs that used to run, when first you ran to carry a gun, To be sure your dancing days are done, oh, Johnny I hardly knew ye...”
“Abigail?! You did it!” Enchantra gasped.
“Don’t stop me now Enchantra!” Abigail shouted.
“Abigail, you can open your eyes now.”
Abigail opened her eyes to see herself on her knees, like the doleful damsel, and the siren sleeping. Abigail ran for it, and literally vaulted over the siren to the door, and before the siren knew what hit her, Abigail was in the next room, insulated from the song. |
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I see what you mean with the italics & dialogue mixing in such a way that might cause confusion. Good writing, BTW. I think all you need are a couple of action tags put in, describing what your character is doing physically while she's thinking and singing at the same time. I've inserted a couple action tags in bold print, as an example-
(feel free to ignore these if you disagree, they're only an example):
| Quote: |
Processing three things at once seemed impossible, but necessary.
“And when Irish eyes are smiling, sure they steal your heart away.”
She switched songs quickly, not letting the siren getting a word in edgewise.
“The dames of France are fond and free, and Flemish lips are willing...”
I=PRT, E=MC squared, she thought, D=M/V, F=MA...
“And soft the maids of Italy and Spanish eyes are thrilling, still, though I bask beneath their smile...”
It was working! She fought to keep her inner and outer mantras going: A=(4/3)pi times R cubed. D=C times pi. A=pi times R squared.
“Their charms fail to bind me, and my heart goes back to Erien’s Isle, to the girl I left behind me.”
She felt herself stumble mentally, but only for a moment. A=(1/3) base times height, A= (1/2... I mean 1/3 times base times pi time R squared... |
This can be a tough situation to resolve writing-wise, but only a minor addition of descriptive narrative is needed, just to add dimension to the scene. Otherwise, it's fine. Thanks for your post, I enjoyed the read 
Best wishes,
Jillian
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Jullian
You must be quite the writer yourself to have shown such good taste in preserving the Austen qualities while still making the passage clearer. I ask that if you ever have any writing problems of your own, I would be most obliged to try and help, however young I may be at writting. I only took it up five years ago, and then only after seeing "Harry Potter and the Sorcerers stone."on video for the first time. I used to be quite a singer, but now have turned to other creative endeavors. Thank you whole heartedly, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Zach |
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Zmason wrote: | Jullian
You must be quite the writer yourself to have shown such good taste in preserving the Austen qualities while still making the passage clearer. I ask that if you ever have any writing problems of your own, I would be most obliged to try and help, however young I may be at writting. I only took it up five years ago, and then only after seeing "Harry Potter and the Sorcerers stone."on video for the first time. I used to be quite a singer, but now have turned to other creative endeavors. Thank you whole heartedly, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Zach |
No problem! Glad if I was of any help to you at all. My writing problems are simple - my characters are not 'human' enough. I've tried everything, but nothing seems to work. It may be an AS thing, or maybe not, but I hope to work it out one day. I like the Harry Potter movies & books as well. I especially envy J.K. Rowling, as she went from adversity to riches using only her imagination. If you began writing 5 years ago, then we started around the same time. I've written stories and stuff for a long time, but didn't do anything seriously until five years ago, when I wrote my first novel. I've written 4 since then (about 1 per year average), but have had no luck publishing them. I'm thinking about putting one of them on Lulu.com. Someone else in here did, and it seems to be working for them. You used to sing? Why did you stop?
Best wishes,
Jillian
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Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Jullian
I don't believe that anything can stop anyone from writing good characters, just so long as you have the right tools. I am often reminded of Lourel Yourk's book (don't hold the spelling against me, I'm not certian of it) Take your characters to dinner. I know exactly how mine would act at a dinner party and ball. She'd be eating a first course of chicken dumpling soup, followed by cubed veal in gravy, sweet potatoes, and carrots. She likes Strawberry Ice cream, and warm cups of milk when she's distressed. After eating, she'd dance with Roy McDonald, a pilot from Duxford Royal Air Force Base, whom she once kept from committing suicide. The two would talk about how the British made a mistake in going into Iraq, and that the Euro is finally making a comeback after years of so much European money being useless. She's a sensible girl, with a violent temper which she directs at herself usually. It takes a lot to get her mad at her friends.
If not writting a novel, just a short story, you don't have to go into details this deep. But, I've often found it helpful. As for my singing, I still sing fine, but just don't do it very often anymore. It's all entangled with a bad incident about six years ago that left me basically without a character. Writing has helped me put some of my character back together.
What Genre of writing do you write in? |
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi again,
Nicely put, how your character is brought to life. I admit that though I've done plenty of character sketches, they're usually about physical characteristics, mannerisms, etc, and maybe their astrological sign [Gemini, Taurus, and so on], but I have a hard time going much past that and what you are suggesting is true - I probably should try to visualize what sort of food they eat, how they would react in a given situation, etc. Maybe it's not AS causing the problem, but my ADD - I tend to get bored once I begin to delve into the minutiae concerning a character. You're right though, I should. It would help me to get to know them better.
As for genre, I've published several horror short stories ["Getting Their Kicks on Route 666" and "Scissors" are among my better-known ones]. I also like to write mysteries and thrillers. Of the novels I've written, they are in the following genres:
Cold January Mourning - Mystery [Modern day/Present]
The Rose and the Dandelion - Mainstream thriller [Modern Day/Present]
The Death of Daughter Jones - Period mystery (set in the late 1700's early America)
Golden Hour - Thriller [Modern day/1970's]
Broken Ground - Mystery/Horror [Modern Day/Present]
Of these, I think 'Broken Ground' has the best chance of being published. I recently got it back from an agent who told me to cut down the word count and remove a few chapters before she can agree to represent me in regard to the book.So, it's back to the drawing board on that one, but at least I've got hope.
I have four other novels in various stages of completion:
Dancing with the Devil [working title] - Non-Fiction, 50K words completed, concerning an unsolved mystery/cold case related to a girl I knew in junior high school (she was murdered) and who I suspect the killer to be (he was never captured - for lack of proof)
Lord of the Shadows [working title] - 35K completed, fantasy thriller, about a war between the residents of two different dimensions. {it's a lot more involved than that, but I can't give too much away, as I'm currently trying to market this book as welll}
The River - [working title] 40K words completed, mystery/thriller. A country-western singer is on his 'comeback tour' when a reporter shows up one day, accusing him of being involved in the unsolved murder of her mother. The man's reputation is then slaughtered in the media and in order to prove his innocence, he must return to his long-forgotten hometown and dig up a few ghosts from his past.
The Screamers Club - [working title] 90K words completed, thriller, about a woman who fakes being insane in order to enter an asylum to get at the killer who may be the only person on earth who knows where her missing son is.
Well, it looks like I've rambled on and on again. I'll stop now while I'm ahead, LOL.
PS: Don't worry about spelling - it's one of my obsessions, as I memorized the entire Webster's dictionary when I was a kid. I know many very intelligent people (much more so than I) who can't spell very well. I never look at spelling as a sign of who's smarter than whom. I still have plenty of typos myself, so I can't claim perfection, either.
best wishes & keep writing
Jillian
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Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Jullian
I mainly write fantasy, science fiction, and romance. An odd mixture, but I've always been a sucker for a good ending. The only project I have is one I've been working on five years with very little break. The Adventures of Abigail Whipple series is a five novel series about Abigail Whipple's struggles with witchcraft, magical entities, and trying to save England from Germany, Its set in early world war two. The first novel, the Queen of Hearts, is about 57K words long. I've been trying to market it for a few months, but so far, no takers. I think I'm in the wrong genre. Nevertheless, I intend to finish this series before moving on to something else. After all, I put a lot of research into this series.
Zach |
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Jullian
You're intrested in quantum mechanics and string theory too!?
Last edited by Zmason on Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again -
I saw your message on the other thread ad just wanted to let you know that I'm not trying to avoid you (or anyone else)and don't want you to think that. You haven't done or said anything wrong, so don't worry
I work in the newspaper business and I design magazines for a living, and this past week has been very busy for me, with a new bimonthly issue coming out. You have never offended me or done anything to scare me off, I just wanted you to know that. (It's usually ME scaring off other people, LOL). I'm not able to get online most evenings because I work at home as well (graphic design), but I usually try to get on Fridays, weekends and sometimes on Wednesdays. Don't worry about anything you've said to me here - you've said nothing to scare me in the slightest.
Now, where were we? Oh, yes...
| Zmason wrote: |
I mainly write fantasy, science fiction, and romance. An odd mixture, but I've always been a sucker for a good ending. |
Me, too. One of things I've had to work on quite a bit is coming up with a good ending. By a good ending, I usually mean a 'happy' ending, but it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes a sad ending is the only one that will work, the only way a book can end.
| Quote: |
The only project I have is one I've been working on five years with very little break. The Adventures of Abigail Whipple series is a five novel series about Abigail Whipple's struggles with witchcraft, magical entities, and trying to save England from Germany, Its set in early world war two. The first novel, the Queen of Hearts, is about 57K words long. I've been trying to market it for a few months, but so far, no takers. I think I'm in the wrong genre. Nevertheless, I intend to finish this series before moving on to something else. After all, I put a lot of research into this series. |
Sounds like an interesting series of novels and I think the WWII setting is unique, especially in these kinds of stories. Don't give up hope on marketing your work. Writing is always an ongoing learning process, and though it can be disheartening at times, there's a saying that I believe always holds true: "The only difference between a Writer and an Author is that an Author is a Writer who Never Gave Up." J.K. Rowling's 'Harry Potter' was rejected fifty times before it was published. When someone finally did publish her book, I can bet that all those other companies who turned her down felt pretty stupid after that.
Keep working on your stories. TYou are a good writer and the more you learn, grow and refine your style, the better your series will be. I'm still editing my first novel even though I know my later works are far better writing-wise. People ask why I still bother with it, and the only reason I can come up with is because the story itself is good, I just didn't 'tell it' right the first time. I'm on my fifth draft of it. Besides, I've talked to some published authors and they tell me that their first novels were the hardest to publish. After that, it got easier for them. But no matter what, if you feel your stories will sell, then keep working on them. I read somewhere that Tolkien worked on his novels for close to a decade before he published them.
Best wishes,
Jillian
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Zmason wrote: | Jullian
You're intrested in quantum mechanics and string theory too!? |
Yes, it's an interesting subject and I've read several awesome novels lately with quantum physics and string theory at the core of the plot. The reason I'm fascinated by it (and by NO means an expert - I can't wrap my brain around the math, unfortunately) is because I've been working on a novel involving interdimensional and time travel. Evidently, according to current accepted string theorists, it is possible to travel backward in time but not forward, but I don't think this is the case. In string theory, (with dimensions referred to as 'branes' [or 'membranes]), there are up to ten dimensions [if you count 'zero brane' as a dimension and the ninth dimension 'p brane' as the tenth], three of which are observable by man. The others only exist mathematically. Or... do they?
The reason for my interest in this subject is because of the novel and one of my 'side interests,' which is a recent phenomenon known as 'Shadow People.' Now here's where I'm probably going to scare you off. If it does, don't worry, I know it sounds crazy.
In the past 25-30 years, people all over the world have had sightings of what are popularly called 'Shadow People,' and they're usually described as being roughly human in shape, with a head, two arms and two legs. That's where the similarity ends. They have been viewed in various states of being - usually as shadow that has a 'life' of its own. They can be opaque or transparent, and they move very fast. People reporting a sighting of one will usually see one out of the corner of their eye and by the time they turn to get a good look at it, it's gone. Unlike 'ghosts,' Shadow People have been seen at all times of the day, indoors and outdoors, and in varying weather conditions.
More info about them here:
http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa022502a.htm
Anyhow, being a 'logical' kind of person when it comes to these things, I could not explain them in mundane fashion after the many sightings I've had. I've read up everything I can find on them and eventually I began writing a novel about them, called 'Lord of the Shadows,' which basically outlines my theory that they are not in fact 'ghosts' (as many think) but instead are either visitors from another dimension or a future time. I've interviewed over a 100 people in real life about them, and they are people that are credible. So the question for me became this: if they are in fact NOT a hallucination (and yes, I've considered that a possibility, too, until I and one of my family members saw one at the same time), then what are they? When I began reading up on quantum physics and space/time, I stumbled on a web page that explained String Theory in layman's terms and a lot of it fit my own explanation of these phenomena. Putting it in story form is my way of explaining what I and my family members saw over a period of 25 years. I don't believe in ghosts, per se, but I do believe that there's a lot more out there in the universe than our scientists can simply explain away.
In order to explain my own ideas about this in layman's terms well enough to get it into a novel, though, has been difficult. I've had to rewrite certain chapters several timeswhile keeping in mind that once the novel's out there, I don't want physicists emailing me that my grasp of the theory is way off base. So that, in a nutshell, is what and why String theory and quantum physics fascinates me. I only wish I'd been gifted with a mathematical brain so that I could fully understand how it works. I have a 'working knowledge' of it, but again, I'm no expert by any means.
best wishes,
Jillian
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Jullian
That's about my understanding of string theory and quantum mechanics. I can't wrap my mind around the math either, hence why I'm a writer and not going to MIT
But seriously, thank you for the encouragment. Recently, I've taken a bent on romantic novels, and I'm preparing to sideline my main series for a year to write another novel. I need to wait on research I have coming in about 18th century Britain, but I have a good grasp of the story line I want. Its top secret as far as anyone else goes, but I suppose I could tell you. Its a companion novel to Pride and Prejudice. I can't call it a sequel becasue the novelist herself would have to write it, and she's been dead for almost two hundred years. That hasn't stopped others from calling there books sequels (apparently I'm not the first person to think of this), but my novels will NOT contain the smut that most love novels contain. I'm writing this one in true Jane Austen fashion, and I've got a good handle on that. Innocent as my mind seems to be, as you will have noticed.
Thanks for writing back. Stay in touch if you can. I'll make it worth your while.
Zach |
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Villain
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I've participated in fantasy-roleplays via forum before. I've noticed that all of my characters have Aspie-traits |
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Rainstorm5
Cogito ergo doleo
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1043
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Zmason wrote: | | Recently, I've taken a bent on romantic novels, and I'm preparing to sideline my main series for a year to write another novel. I need to wait on research I have coming in about 18th century Britain, but I have a good grasp of the story line I want. Its top secret as far as anyone else goes, but I suppose I could tell you. Its a companion novel to Pride and Prejudice. I can't call it a sequel becasue the novelist herself would have to write it, and she's been dead for almost two hundred years. That hasn't stopped others from calling there books sequels (apparently I'm not the first person to think of this), but my novels will NOT contain the smut that most love novels contain. I'm writing this one in true Jane Austen fashion, and I've got a good handle on that. Innocent as my mind seems to be, as you will have noticed. |
There's nothing wrong with a sequel to an established novel, especially one that's already in the public domain such as Pride and Prejudice. People do it all the time. When you mention setting your novel aside to work on an another one, that's what a lot of authors do when they need to take a break from it for a while. (Which is probably why I've amassed so many unfinished manuscripts, LOL). Just be sure to go back to it once your research material comes in. For Cold January Mourning, I had to write several letters to a police agency in the state where I live to hopefully get in an interview with one of their high-ranking officers, as well as contacting a few criminal defense lawyers for a courtroom scene in 'Dandelion.' It was two years before I finally got to talk to someone in the agency, and this only came after many, many phone calls. If people knew how much I hate to talk on the phone, they would realize what a sacrfice this was... The police in this area are gun-shy about talking to writers for fear of what they say coming back to haunt them. but, the research is definitely worth the effort once you have the final product.
As for love scenes, I absolutely can't write them and I don't blame you for avoiding them, either. Sometimes they are necessary for plot development between two characters, but so far I've gotten by without needing one (which is why I stick to mystery and horror). Still, Jane Austen and her contemporaries managed to write very well within the moral constraints of the time and their work is classic. I don't know why the same method can't be employed today. Unfortunately in today's world people seem to think they have to infuse sex into everything in order to sell it. I don't think that's so. If you write a good story with strong characters and an interesting plot, sex isn't needed to carry the novel.
| Quote: |
Thanks for writing back. Stay in touch if you can. I'll make it worth your while.
Zach |
I'm still here I might not be on here every day but I do check all my posts when I get a chance.
Best wishes & good to hear from you -
Jillian
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Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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Zmason
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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The way the other's who have written sequels will decide how I write mine. I am expecting a lot of sexual stuff from the modern people who have decided to do it. If that's the case, and my plot stays in tact, I should be able to pull off a true Jane Austen like book. Just some of the subjects I've ordered books on include common law of England, Dress and habits of 18th century England, mannerisms of both rich and poor for that time period, all the way to ordering every book Jane Austen wrote. It gives insight not only into her style, but into her time period as well, as I've already taken many lessons from Pride and Prejudice, I expect more with her other novels.
I won't stop writing on the other sereis either. Perhaps I might go back and forth. Even though the third novel in the series is very technical in its use of megaliths and myth from every corner of England. Might provide a break from the romance theme.
Research around here is a pain. Books take weeks to come in, and I don't trust everything online. Most of this stuff is established fact however, not metaphysical things that perhaps only one book in the world has been written on the subject (like metaphysical teleportation). I've read that book too. And for the series on witches, it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack to try and find a real life wiccan for reference.
I need not detain you further. I'm waiting for news to come in about my short short story I sent int to a contest sometime tonight, and I hope I win, because last time around, a former English teacher of mine beat me out of the writer's race!
Zach |
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