Villain
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| If I were sentenced to damnation for my very nature, I'd deliberately endure it, if only to prove that god is a dick. |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | yes im being serious this time. i figure if there is a god, and he wants to punish me forever because i dont live a certain way, at the very least he is an extemely stubborn individual. maybe he has arseburgers. also wouldnt you THINK for a second that if god wanted everyone "saved" and "with him" he would make it so any steps needed to get there would be crystal clear and fool proof? i would think so, obviously he doesnt want everyone in heaven |
Can I force you to be my friend??? Even if I listed all the reasons to be and it was clear cut, does that mean a thing? No. You still have decisions to make and they have consequences. Is a judge stubborn just because he wont bend the law in your favor? No. This Judge offers that either you accept an option of His making and go free, or you pay the penalty for your own crimes. Are you the Lawmaker who decides what is right or wrong? If Providence should direct that I should know enough that I believe and with confidence, yet you believe not the testimony of me or others why should you blame God? Who are you to determine how He should act? I pray that God would undeniably reveal Himself to you as He has to me. |
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richardbenson
Fire Agate
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 14425
Location: Leave only a footprint behind
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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im not here to determine how anyone including, how god should act. frankly i dont know how you can take anything in the bible seriously. how do you know god is real? does he "talk" to you? obviously i admire your faith parakeet but im not going through the nitemare of repenting only to sin again, oh no. its one thing to use an analagy of a judge, its another to actually see god in a judges robe. once that happens then i will try to do my best to live according to his ways. until then something pretty darn miraculous is going to have to happen, and it appears as god liked doing the miraculous in the past so why not now? this is kindof like the attitude creationist have reguarding dinosuars. "the bones were put here all over the earth by god to test my faith!" oh please.
thanks for praying for me but i doubt jesus will ride up on a harley and take me to tucson rock&gem show 
although i did start praying recently to jesus about my lease situation and it was answerd. so i dont know if this was a coicidence or an actual answer to my prayer.
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Winds of clarity. a universal understanding come and go, I've seen though the Darkness to understand the bounty of Light |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | how do you know god is real? |
Because the brain dies after 30 seconds without oxygen.
| richardbenson wrote: | | does he "talk" to you? |
Not often, but when He has it is not in words or emotions but rather in complete thoughts.
| richardbenson wrote: | | obviously i admire your faith parakeet |
Thanks, I wish I could live it better and more consistently.
| richardbenson wrote: | | and it appears as god liked doing the miraculous in the past so why not now? |
I've seen the one about my dad and that's plenty for me. God still does miracles, it's just not a constant activity to uphold the normative order of things. I.e. superstitions are unnecessary. Even in the Old Testament God was not constantly confusing people with constant miracles. Indeed, if there was no order to go by, how could anything be determined to be of supernatural origin?
| richardbenson wrote: | | this is kindof like the attitude creationist have reguarding dinosuars. "the bones were put here all over the earth by god to test my faith!" oh please. |
I've never heard a creationist say this.
| richardbenson wrote: | | thanks for praying for me but i doubt jesus will ride up on a harley and take me to tucson rock&gem show |
I doubt God will show Himself to you in that manner either. But if he does show Himself to you in this way even, I hope you wont write it off. |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | although i did start praying recently to jesus about my lease situation and it was answerd. so i dont know if this was a coicidence or an actual answer to my prayer. |
If it can be called a coincidence then it is not undeniable. |
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richardbenson
Fire Agate
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 14425
Location: Leave only a footprint behind
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | how do you know god is real? |
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Because the brain dies after 30 seconds without oxygen. |
how does that prove god? are you trying to say hes breathing or breath? and thats why he cant be proved? hm. well ok i think however thats just how our bodys function and really doesnt have anything to do with a supernatural being.
| richardbenson wrote: | | does he "talk" to you? |
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Not often, but when He has it is not in words or emotions but rather in complete thoughts. |
so are im guessing there all good thoughts? and the bad thoughts come from the devil? heres the trick, have you ever wonderd why it was ok for people to talk, pray etc, to god but if he answers back it is called schizophrenia? you see thats just what it is, its a medical disease of the brain and frankly i dont know how anyone who "hears god" really hasnt a brain disease
| richardbenson wrote: | | and it appears as god liked doing the miraculous in the past so why not now? |
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Even in the Old Testament God was not constantly confusing people with constant miracles. Indeed, if there was no order to go by, how could anything be determined to be of supernatural origin? |
well he shure did alot more in the past thats for shure, i mean citys being destoyed by fire from heaven, wich im shure was related to some sort of volcanic activity, (i think they already proved this, and the "fire from heaven" was really a volcano's lava raining down and destroying stuff. when you lived back then, alot of the so called miricles and so forth can mostley be explained by natural phenomina that the peoples at the time didnt understand, so hence god did it, do things follow rules and order in the universe? yes and no. mostley yes but sometimes no and i doubt god had anything to do with it
| richardbenson wrote: | | this is kindof like the attitude creationist have reguarding dinosuars. "the bones were put here all over the earth by god to test my faith!" oh please. |
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | I've never heard a creationist say this. |
they say it all the time, watch tbn sometime and that dude who promotes the creation museum
| richardbenson wrote: | | thanks for praying for me but i doubt jesus will ride up on a harley and take me to tucson rock&gem show |
| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | I doubt God will show Himself to you in that manner either. But if he does show Himself to you in this way even, I hope you wont write it off. |
i'm not going to dismiss the possibility of there being a god, and ill be darned if i try to figure him out if he does exist with human thought concepts and emotions
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Winds of clarity. a universal understanding come and go, I've seen though the Darkness to understand the bounty of Light |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9166
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | richardbenson wrote: | | this is kindof like the attitude creationist have reguarding dinosuars. "the bones were put here all over the earth by god to test my faith!" oh please. |
I've never heard a creationist say this. |
Haha. I think Richard got that one from Bill Hicks. |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9166
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | I'm glad I was never taught to believe in St Nick or I'd probably reject God via association too. My mom was the only Christian in my life until dad died and she remarried. If I hadn't seen my dad die and come back to life, I probably would have not been a Christian. I did question how deeply I believed when I was a teenager, but from the historicity of the Bible and studying the Creation-evolution issue from various sources I have decided that theologically the best stance is to be a YEC and that there will eventually be no final conflict between pseudo/quasi-scientists and the Bible and that Natural Revelation and Historical Revelation will one day speak with one voice. To some degree they already do, but it will be much better when there is more certainty to rest on. I look forward to then, although some may not. |
I rejected the Santa Claus belief a long time before I ever rejected Christianity. What I was trying to say was that my belief in Christianity always felt phony. It felt like wishful thinking, just like Santa Claus.
It's interesting that you mention studying the creation-evolution issue. I went the same route around the age of 13, yet I ended up coming to the exact opposite conclusion. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 6395
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| marshall wrote: | | Mybelief in Christianity always felt phony. It felt like wishful thinking, just like Santa Claus. |
Why do people think there's a problem with wishful thinking when it comes to believing in god, (despite the fact that it need not lead you into any kind of illusions, delusions, error, etc, and is not in flagrant contradiction of anything that you know)? Why are people who believe in god so often accused of this?
It's only like a mathematician who has a problem and whatever they do with it, turn it around, examine it from every conceivable angle, it has no solution unless posit x. The existence of this whatever thing/x suddenly solves the problem. Are you going to say to the mathematician that their solution is no good, it's just wishful thinking?
My belief in god is like that.
It's true that certain information was helpful to me in accepting the proposition; the recent work on the psychology of religion for instance which suggests that a religious tendency, belief in god, may be a side-effect/by-product, of developments in the brain in the last 50,000 years in Fluid Intelligence, that is pattern recognition, finding meaning in confusion, attribution of cause etc.
The theory is that these mental functions, very good for our survival, created a "space" which in some/many humans is "satisfied" by only one thing, belief in god, without which they are always persistently, anxiously, obsessively, compulsively, looking for cause, meaning, and patterns such that life is like one long search with no rest. Like someone in enemy territory who has to stay awake all the time to process information in case is sign of danger.
Also recent work in theories of complexity/complex systems and "emergence". I looked up "emergence" on the net, and the descriptions sound like descriptions of god, just without using the word.
I think belief in god is like accepting "0" in maths. I'm intensely grateful for its existence, and regret all the years of not using it. You can imagine, what trying to do maths without 0 would be like. 
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Because many people on both sides - Christians and persecutors alike, are dingleberries - which are usually the most outspoken group in any conflict of interests. They aren't exactly the majority, they just do a great job of making it sound as if they are through their own self-importance. |
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richardbenson
Fire Agate
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 14425
Location: Leave only a footprint behind
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | | marshall wrote: | | Mybelief in Christianity always felt phony. It felt like wishful thinking, just like Santa Claus. |
Why do people think there's a problem with wishful thinking when it comes to believing in god, (despite the fact that it need not lead you into any kind of illusions, delusions, error, etc, and is not in flagrant contradiction of anything that you know)? Why are people who believe in god so often accused of this? |
Because usually this invisible god instructs people to donate monies, hate certain people, look down on others, be complete thugs that go into neighbourhoods trying to convert innocent unsespecting knowing people, and im shure christianity would be running the country if there wasnt seperation of church and state. did you know the vatican has a seat at the UN? and is considerd by many nations to be a friggin soverant country? so really this invisible guy is alot like santa clause. suposidly lives in heaven, santa clause live in the north pole. or does he?  atleast santa doesnt have a bible, has cute reindeer and doesnt offend anyone. exept for well, the christian! gotta keep it real you know, because christmas is all about jesus 
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Winds of clarity. a universal understanding come and go, I've seen though the Darkness to understand the bounty of Light |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Because the brain dies after 30 seconds without oxygen. |
how does that prove god? are you trying to say hes breathing or breath? and thats why he cant be proved? hm. well ok i think however thats just how our bodys function and really doesnt have anything to do with a supernatural being. |
No, I'm referring to the fact that my dad was dead for a few minutes before he was brought back to life. Not by CPR, but with my mom and a friend from Church praying over him that he would come back so we could take him to the hospital. I was 13 at the time and he was not breathing and had no pulse as well as his eyes were wide open and had the white part of his eyes turn yellow (which may have been due to chemotherapy, but he was still dead.) That is the largest miracle I have seen although I have seen and experienced others more personal, this is why I remained a Christian. |
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richardbenson
Fire Agate
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 14425
Location: Leave only a footprint behind
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. eaither way sorry to hear about your dad dude. cancer is a terrible disease |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. eaither way sorry to hear about your dad dude. cancer is a terrible disease |
Thanks. What's really bad is that the hospital stopped the chemotherapy short and the cancer grew back. If we had been a wealthy family they wouldn't have stopped. I hate the medical policies and supposed health benefits of this nation. People are all equally valuable and healthcare shouldn't cost. America sucks in this sense. |
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richardbenson
Fire Agate
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 14425
Location: Leave only a footprint behind
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Thanks. What's really bad is that the hospital stopped the chemotherapy short and the cancer grew back. If we had been a wealthy family they wouldn't have stopped. I hate the medical policies and supposed health benefits of this nation. People are all equally valuable and healthcare shouldn't cost. America sucks in this sense. |
wow how sad. if you guys were poor couldnt you get on medicaid? i was on it for awile, and actually they paid for my hernia surgury that i had. i could imagine that if i had cancer or any other life threatening illness they would do the same.
i might get back on it, once i move out in less than a month 
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