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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 1280
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Does our society encourage abusive behaviours in women? |
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So I'm starting this argument after reading a few too many books and seeing a few too many movies and TV shows in which a female character whom the audience is expected to be sympathetic towards treats a male character in ways that, if a male character treated a female character the same way, would have the audience gasping in shock, turning off the TV or throwing the book in anger, and writing hate mail to the person responsible for said book or TV show.
I've also heard the girls who go to my school joking about beating up and/or killing their boyfriends, which I felt really pissed off by because I would never, ever say anything like that about a person I was in a relationship with.
However, I've recently heard serious conversations in which said girls, some of them friends of mine, went so far as to brag about finishing off arguments with their boyfriends by beating them up and/or nearly killing them. During one such conversation the girl who was really pissing me off by talking like that seemed shocked when I told her that if I had been in her boyfriend's position I would have dialed 9-1-1 the very moment she even tried to lay a hand on me. Her response was to call me an abusive jerk and say that she was glad I wasn't her boyfriend. When I pointed out that she'd been the one who'd been abusive she told me to shut up, so I got up and walked away. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 7031
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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did you think she was going to thank you for showing her the error of her ways?
Merle |
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Rainstorm5
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Two reasons:
1. It's the media -- primarily movies, video games, TV, the internet and music lyrics, most of which is written by young men who like violence as an art form. Some think dominatrix-type females should be good role models for girls. Girls watch the same things and play the same games as boys do these days. So many kids are being brought up by the television instead of family, and violence is all they see. Many are sociopathic by the age of thirteen, if not sooner. It's not just their boyfriends (or even girlfriends) they abuse, it's basically anyone who pisses them off. Just read the news today. There are teenagers out there shooting people for thrills, and beating people down for the smallest slight against their character. Again, girls see this, too. Girls are just as capable of being sociopathic as boys. They know no difference between right and wrong, only what makes them happy and what makes them angry. This is what happens when things like porn and bloody violence in media/movies becomes acceptable.
2. Bad Parents. These girls were never taught that it's not right to hurt other people. Parents either abused the girls themselves or otherwise overlooked and refused to discipline them for bad behavior. Moms and Dads leave their kids in front of the TV all day long while they do their own thing and in turn the kids act out. Parent ignores them, the violent behavior is 'excused' and since there were no real consequences for the child's actions, the hurting of other people to get their way becomes part of the accepted norm. They are violent simply because they were never shown the proper way to behave. Once they're adults, the behavior patterns are set and nothing short of a near-death experience can change them -- and in most cases even that doesn't work.
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Jillian AKA Rainstorm5
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 7031
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Rainstorm5 wrote: | Two reasons:
1. It's the media -- primarily movies, video games, TV, the internet and music lyrics, most of which is written by young men who like violence as an art form. Some think dominatrix-type females should be good role models for girls. Girls watch the same things and play the same games as boys do these days. So many kids are being brought up by the television instead of family, and violence is all they see. Many are sociopathic by the age of thirteen, if not sooner. It's not just their boyfriends (or even girlfriends) they abuse, it's basically anyone who pisses them off. Just read the news today. There are teenagers out there shooting people for thrills, and beating people down for the smallest slight against their character. Again, girls see this, too. Girls are just as capable of being sociopathic as boys. They know no difference between right and wrong, only what makes them happy and what makes them angry. This is what happens when things like porn and bloody violence in media/movies becomes acceptable.
2. Bad Parents. These girls were never taught that it's not right to hurt other people. Parents either abused the girls themselves or otherwise overlooked and refused to discipline them for bad behavior. Moms and Dads leave their kids in front of the TV all day long while they do their own thing and in turn the kids act out. Parent ignores them, the violent behavior is 'excused' and since there were no real consequences for the child's actions, the hurting of other people to get their way becomes part of the accepted norm. They are violent simply because they were never shown the proper way to behave. Once they're adults, the behavior patterns are set and nothing short of a near-death experience can change them -- and in most cases even that doesn't work. |
you for got
3) HER CHOICE. wow, she actually has a choice not to abuse people, and lacking that, the people she hangs out with that ALLOWS her to abuse them have a choice too.
and, eventually someone might show her exactly how it feels to be the abused, rather than the abuser and she will freak out that she is now the victim. |
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Rainstorm5
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: |
you for got
3) HER CHOICE. wow, she actually has a choice not to abuse people, and lacking that, the people she hangs out with that ALLOWS her to abuse them have a choice too.
and, eventually someone might show her exactly how it feels to be the abused, rather than the abuser and she will freak out that she is now the victim. |
True - you're right, they always have a choice. And people allow themselves to be abused, too. I know about that all too well. (My ex-husband beat me mentally and physically for two solid years).
However, in order to even be able to make that choice to start with, they have to know the difference between right and wrong. Most (and I said 'most') abusers do not know the difference between right and wrong. I don't believe my ex-husband had a conscience. 'Choice' never entered the equation when it came time to smack me around. He did it to teach me a lesson about pissing him off. It was a simple formula: for every action, there is aways an opposite reaction. I messed up, he hit me. Period. He didn't stop to think about choices at the time. If he had, he wouldn't have ended up in jail. Most people who abuse do not bother to think about it beforehand, unless they're just trying to get creative with it. And oh, how they can be creative when they want to be.
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Jillian AKA Rainstorm5
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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LabPet
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 1671
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think Rainstorm5's points were 'right on the mark.' Media is a big influence; granted, I do not watch TV, but most in our culture do. Parenting instills expectations of girls too, even implicitly.
For me, I'm almost the opposite in that I'm very respectful and reserved. However, this is my nature. When I had my father (before his death) he was kind and, being from a European family, those values still stick with me. I live in Alaska - maybe a bit backwards too. I do find some, not all, American women rather dominant in their relationships. That being said, I feel deeply saddened by women who are in abusive relationships. Sometimes they are perpetually mistreated and have no 'way out' since they are without job experience, education (this is key!), and maybe have children who are their priority, of course. Consequently, their self-confidence plummets exponentially.
Separate but related: I was, and am, pedantic; overly formal. And shy. This is my nature and somehow I just don't ever 'fit in' with others - like a social kindergartener, I guess. I am naive to a fault. Hate that...and really sensitive too.
Again, separate, but illustrative: I do apologize, Rainstorm5: re, I thought your picture posted was pretty; I said you looked like a Victorian Doll. I did mean that most literally - I meant you look pretty like a classic Victorian Doll. I guess this could be misinterpreted, but I didn't mean it 'wrong.' I felt badly for my faux pas. I hope this wasn't offensive.
Ok....next: I really like men - I tend to get along better with men, for whatever reason. Sexually, I really like older men! I'm very attracted to older, stable men. Yes, I've heard the 'daddy complex' thing.....But this is reality for me. One's sexual likes are just a given so I accept this in myself.
Yupa, I think you're right. Basic courtesy is ALWAYS proper. Everyone deserves to be treated with courtesy and violence, in whatever form, even if implied, is just wrong. I do think our culture tends to condone violence. Scary.
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same nightmare, different nap
Lab Pet, therapist slayer
Lab Pet's video: Autism is Synonymous with Science: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYelVlA7kDw |
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gwenevyn
asdf forever
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yupa, might they be exaggerating?
Why do you keep friends who "nearly kill" other people? If you hang out with a rough crowd, I suppose it isn't surprising to hear rough stories. I have never known any women who act like that.
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The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1579
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Does our society encourage abusive behaviours in women? |
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| Yupa wrote: | | So I'm starting this argument after reading a few too many books and seeing a few too many movies and TV shows in which a female character whom the audience is expected to be sympathetic towards treats a male character in ways that, if a male character treated a female character the same way, would have the audience gasping in shock, turning off the TV or throwing the book in anger, and writing hate mail to the person responsible for said book or TV show. |
Recommend Warren Farrell's book "Women Can't Hear What Men Don't Say", to validate your perceptions-it discusses hypocrisy between gender roles, expectations, etc. (in media & real-life)-and how men (not just women) are hurt by these.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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Rainstorm5
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LabPet wrote: |
Again, separate, but illustrative: I do apologize, Rainstorm5: re, I thought your picture posted was pretty; I said you looked like a Victorian Doll. I did mean that most literally - I meant you look pretty like a classic Victorian Doll. I guess this could be misinterpreted, but I didn't mean it 'wrong.' I felt badly for my faux pas. I hope this wasn't offensive. |
No you didn't offend me, Labpet, I was in the process of removing my picture around the same exact time you posted a reply to my pic. I decided to take it down after reading another member's post elsewhere about egotistical behavior, and I decided that posting my 'real' photo was being egotistical on my part. I appreciate you comment and didn't find it offensive at all. I was confused for a second (I've been told I have empty, doll-like eyes in the past), but then I realized you weren't referring to me in that manner. No offense taken. I just hadn't gone back to that thread yet to reply again. Again, thanks. 
| Quote: | | Ok....next: I really like men - I tend to get along better with men, for whatever reason. Sexually, I really like older men! I'm very attracted to older, stable men. Yes, I've heard the 'daddy complex' thing.....But this is reality for me. One's sexual likes are just a given so I accept this in myself. |
So was I - my current husband is a decade older than I am. My ex was several years younger than me. I opted for an older guy because they seemed more stable at the time (again, in some cases this can be a false perspective).
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Jillian AKA Rainstorm5
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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TheMidnightJudge
autist
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 1204
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah that's always bothered me.
I remember a friend of mine. His girlfriend slapped him. So he slapped her and the girl was just amazed.
You look at stastitics, and you'll notice males are much more often the victims of violence than women. |
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MissConstrue
Aquarius
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 10851
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| But usually men are bigger than women. I'm not saying it's right for the woman to slap the man BTW, I'm just saying we're all adults here and don't need to be doing that kind of crap. My brother would always fight back with his girlfriend. She was pregnant at the time and I don't exactly what happened, she slapped him, and he knocked her into a wall. She had to go to the hospital for a broken nose and to see if her baby was alright. He's been going to jail for this kind of behavior. I wish he'd just stop getting into relationships he doesn't like. I don't think any grown ppl should act like that even though I'm guilty for some. Mine was mostly related to alcohol abuse, I'm still in recovery. Some of the guys that I was around were real strong. |
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gwenevyn
asdf forever
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| TheMidnightJudge wrote: |
You look at stastitics, and you'll notice males are much more often the victims of violence than women. |
You forgot to add the part about them being the victims of almost exclusively male perpetrators.
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The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1579
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Knew there was another thread on this, but couldn't find it until just now...
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54478.html
("Misandry in U.S. Culture")-seems related/relevant.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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Erilyn
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 165
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Does our society encourage abusive behaviours in women? |
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| Belfast wrote: | | Yupa wrote: | | So I'm starting this argument after reading a few too many books and seeing a few too many movies and TV shows in which a female character whom the audience is expected to be sympathetic towards treats a male character in ways that, if a male character treated a female character the same way, would have the audience gasping in shock, turning off the TV or throwing the book in anger, and writing hate mail to the person responsible for said book or TV show. |
Recommend Warren Farrell's book "Women Can't Hear What Men Don't Say", to validate your perceptions-it discusses hypocrisy between gender roles, expectations, etc. (in media & real-life)-and how men (not just women) are hurt by these. |
I read an article about this double standard a little while ago. They might have even named this book, I don't remember though. Anyway, it discussed how women are so quick to verbally belittle their husbands and boyfriends to their friends and family, almost as though it's a big joke. There was an example given that, at a dinner party, the hostess made a passing comment to the guests, while rolling her eyes and laughing, about how her husband had bought the wrong something-or-other for the dinner, "of course", while the poor guy was sitting right there. As if it's perfectly acceptable to joke about the "stupid incompetant male". If men belittled their wives as often as women belittle their husbands like this, the feminists would be clawing his eyes out in seconds. |
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tweety_fan
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 03, 2007
Posts: 1191
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| trues, i wish peoples would just stop having a go at each other constantly. that would solve a lot of s&^t out. |
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