Post 1299889 - (I am Fat and Worthless)

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I am Fat and Worthless
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Danielismyname
I wish I were a classical nihilist

Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6246

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:28 am Post subject:

Aridarr, If you wish to argue, I'm here: ad hominems aren't going to get you anywhere however. You can pick something I've said, anything in this thread, and debate such, but by continuing how you are is just showing everyone who you are, not who I am.

Aridarr
the Homicidal Maniac

Joined: Oct 01, 2005
Age: 20
Posts: 1293
Location: Over the stars...?

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:28 am Post subject:

For the benefit of anyone reading the message: It is wrong to reply to a message (posted in a part of a forum purposefully put aside for people hoping to find help and comfort) by nagging someone who is already depressed something as petty as mere political correctness, and informing her that she should kill herself. Then, after seeing a negative reaction to the message in question (not least by the OP herself) to defend such an expulsion of frigid idiocy is nothing but blatant egotism. That said, I have no idea what any of you are talking about now. I'm writing this to prove I don't give in to bullies. _________________ Effect of Blood Plasma from Psychotic Patients upon Performance of Trained Rats

RainSong
The Argumentive Lunatic

Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 4212
Location: Ohio

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:

Aridarr wrote:

You do not amuse me. You annoy me.

Wrong is an entirely subjective thing, and there was more to it than political correctness; I don't think you've even grasped why it was included in the first place, but I don't think it matters much now.

Had you read the subsequent explanations (is reading comphrension truly that rare these days?), you would have seen and understood why he posted that. Just because you do not think in the same way does not make it any less valid.

Aridarr wrote:

Then, after seeing a negative reaction to the message in question (not least by the OP herself) to defend such an expulsion of frigid idiocy is nothing but blatant egotism.

Projecting; he's far from being egotistical. In fact, the one who has been so obviously reacting to disagreeing statements has been you. Explanations are sometimes required when people don't understand; obviously, you don't understand.

There is nothing egotistical about keeping his opinion and not swaying towards yours. It will be a sad day when everyone must agree with you.

Aridarr wrote:

That said, I have no idea what any of you are talking about now.

I don't think you had the slightest idea to begin with.

Aridarr wrote:

I'm writing this to prove I don't give in to bullies.

If anyone has been a bully throughout this, it has been you (and it continues to be so); you have been the one name calling, pain wishing, and suggesting lewd acts (was there a particular point to that, by the way? It wasn't shocking, if that's what you were aiming for). You've been accusing Daniel of being a bully, but he is not nor has he been; his explanations of how he thinks and questions about things you keep insinuating (and questions which you ignore; I see it's because you cannot answer them) are not "personal attacks" as you have deemed them; he is being logical and cool headed, unlike your knee jerk reactions.

You've been casting yourself in the victim's light, but in reality, you've been instigating this from the beginning. You do give into bullies, because you are being one.

Do you really believe what you write, or are you attempting to get sympathy? This is an honest question; I don't see how you truly believe your words, but I don't know; perhaps you do.

An apology is necessary from you, but I don't see it coming. Miracles are hard to come by.
_________________
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud.” - C.G.Jung

Danielismyname
I wish I were a classical nihilist

Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6246

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:

Aridarr wrote:

For the benefit of anyone reading the message:

It is wrong to reply to a message (posted in a part of a forum purposefully put aside for people hoping to find help and comfort) by nagging someone who is already depressed something as petty as mere political correctness, and informing her that she should kill herself.

Then, after seeing a negative reaction to the message in question (not least by the OP herself) to defend such an expulsion of frigid idiocy is nothing but blatant egotism.

That said, I have no idea what any of you are talking about now.

I'm writing this to prove I don't give in to bullies.

"Wrong" is purely subjective in this context as the only thing "wrong" are personal attacks, and I've made none. Which of note, you've made many.

Is it "wrong" to ask for people, no matter where they are, how they're feeling, to respect those who hold death so close? The OP said she wanted to die, and saying you'd like to die by a way that denotes that one is incapable of performing the act themselves, but wishing for a disease that kills so many people without a wish or a want in sight, isn't wrong? I don't see your moral standing here. Of note again, I only read the OP, not any subsequent messages as that was what I was replying to; if I so happen to take it literally, is that "wrong"? Isn't it wrong to say one thing yet mean another? Think of where we are first. Just because someone is posting in the Haven doesn't give anyone a right to disrespect others without fear of [justified] reprisal.

Read the OP, if one wishes to kill themselves for they're in so much pain, there's nothing wrong with informing them to do such, especially when they don't explicitly ask for any opinion at all. This is morality. We "put down" animals for they're suffering, yet when someone dares say that it might be good to put yourself down for you're suffering, O no! We can't have that! {Enter emotion filled personal attacks directed at me}

The "negative" response was a personal attack (and I responded with wit and sarcasm for I then realized what the intentions of the original message were, which annoys me every time for it'd be much easier to just ask for direct answers, rather than making a false statement), attacks by a multitude of people who missed the point completely; of note, a few others have said the same thing as I did, but without the whole, die if you want to line. I have every right to defend myself against personal attacks, and for making my point known. I lack an ego, but I have a voice, and if people misunderstand my words, I'll reply to clear up the misunderstanding.

Of note, the OP understood what I meant when I explained myself.

You had no idea what I was talking about to begin with, yet you felt you knew enough to respond with personal attacks? Who is wrong here?

You never have to give in to anyone, but if you wish to prove I'm a bully, the burden is on you to do such (have fun with that).

Dracula
Velociraptor

Joined: Nov 23, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 412

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:40 am Post subject:

If this argument is to get any more heated, then it needs to transfer to Personal Message. You're both clearly in the wrong for making this thread into a bitchfest, which I'm sure Graelwyn didn't intend or want. Show some respect by relocating. - D Last edited by Dracula on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

Aridarr
the Homicidal Maniac

Joined: Oct 01, 2005
Age: 20
Posts: 1293
Location: Over the stars...?

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

Another thing: I strongly distrust anyone who markets his or her biased opinion as "truth". All there is here is perspective. Here is more of mine. Being "unique" in your opinions, and in your reactions doesn't make you superior. Being different doesn't matter; what matters is not making innocent people around you feel like sh*t. Rudely thrusting your irrelevant ethical ideas into the faces of mentally ill people does just that; it hurts people and shows no regard for their feelings. And the emotions of the mentally ill are painfully unmediated things. I suggest you do some rethinking. (I'm responding to an older part of the thread; probably unsynchronised with current conversational developments. And no, I'm not reading any of it.) And how exactly is berating an anorexic woman a viable way of "defending" cancer sufferers? How does it help them? Are any cancer sufferers being hurt or insulted here? No. As I thought, you attempted to cover your flaws with false veils of admirable intent. In truth, you were just thoughtlessly venting bile. It wasn't just the last part of your message that I read, or that disgusted me. _________________ Effect of Blood Plasma from Psychotic Patients upon Performance of Trained Rats

Danielismyname
I wish I were a classical nihilist

Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6246

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject:

Aridarr wrote:

Another thing: I strongly distrust anyone who markets his or her biased opinion as "truth". All there is here is perspective. Here is more of mine.

Being "unique" in your opinions, and in your reactions doesn't make you superior. Being different doesn't matter; what matters is not making innocent people around you feel like sh*t. Rudely thrusting your irrelevant ethical ideas into the faces of mentally ill people does just that; it hurts people and shows no regard for their feelings. And the emotions of the mentally ill are painfully unmediated things.

I suggest you do some rethinking.

(I'm responding to an older part of the thread; probably unsynchronised with current conversational developments. And no, I'm not reading any of it.)

And how exactly is berating an anorexic woman a viable way of "defending" cancer sufferers? How does it help them? Are any cancer sufferers being hurt or insulted here?

No. As I thought, you attempted to cover your flaws with false veils of admirable intent. In truth, you were just thoughtlessly venting bile.

It wasn't just the last part of your message that I read, or that disgusted me.

The only truth here are spoken words; you've said many that reveal who you are, and there's no point in trying to backpedal and then avoiding contesting anything I say as putting one's head in the sand doesn't make them right.

Defending people, which is exactly what I was doing; the thousands out there, isn't irrelevant. Personal attacks are. You speak of the mentally ill as if they're free to do and say as they wish, which is erroneous. Everything we say and do has a consequence. Your words, mine, the OP's, and the consequences of such can be argued on terms that we all understand: logic. No one says anyone here is "superior", and you're projecting your thoughts to someone else's words, which you did the same to mine.

Of course you are, you'll avoid everything I say and ask of you for you cannot contest it.

It's kinda easy; if one wishes for something that that takes people in horrible ways, yet they're unable to take their own life with their own hands: this is cowardice, and disrespectful to those dying of said disease who don't want or wish for it. This is defending those who don't have a voice, and just because they aren't here, doesn't mean that people can say as they wish without reprisal. Your second and third questions are fallacies.

I'll go and grab my original message, read it exactly as it's written:

Quote:

You wish you had cancer--I'm sure there'll be thousands upon thousands of people who'd love to trade you right now for theirs. Saying you wish for a disease that takes people in terrible ways through terrible pain, many of those who want to live is cowardice, selfishness and morally reprehensible.

If you want to die so much: die.

What "flaws"? I defend those without a voice, I say it's selfish and cowardly to wish for a disease that people don't ask for, nor want. The last statement is exactly that; read the OP, if she feels that she cannot go on any more, what's the point of living if all she wants is death?

E: Just to point out something you may've missed, the OP agreed with me when she realized what I meant. The person you so happened to defend with personal attacks. Who are you defending now? I assume that you're defending your own emotional outbursts, but I'm assuming here, so I may not be correct.

Graelwyn
Myrrdyn

Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 8424

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject:

I would ask that I be kept out of this argument. I feel bad enough as it is without being constantly reminded of how evil it makes me for having had a human moment of anger and wished I had cancer. But then, in my quest to be perfect physically, I am hoping to trancend being human anyway with all it's stupid flaws. I wish I had never asked for help, it has ceased to matter that I desired help and was desperate at that point for a release...suddenly , all that matters is that, shock/horror, I wished to die at a particularly bad point in time and didn't kill myself then and there to satisfy those who feel that if you say something, even in the heat of emotion, you should stick to it and mean it.

Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT

Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 1972

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:

Graelwyn wrote:

I would ask that I be kept out of this argument.
I feel bad enough as it is without being constantly reminded of how evil it makes me for having had a human moment of anger and wished I had cancer.

That's an exaggeration; it's not "evil" it could just rub people the wrong way and I felt I should point it out, that's all.
_________________
Un-ban Chever! Viva La Revolucion!

0_equals_true
Quack!

Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5241
Location: London

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:

Hi Grael Illness like OCD, Anorexia, Anxiety Disorders, and many problems are best tackled by breaking things down to sufficiently small steps. It is like this: The 'wall' is your problem. It will make you worse to to try and focus on the entire wall. It is too large and strong for you to push over, it is too high to climb. However if you focus on chipping away and individual bricks, or even the mortise between the bricks and then removing bricks slowly over time one by one eventually the wall will become unstable under its own weight and it with tumble to the ground. That's the beauty of it. You don't actually have to remove all the bricks just enough bricks for the wall to be come unstable. It is really like this. I did it for social phobia. Ok there is some 'wall' still there, but large sections of the wall are completely destroyed. It does help to have someone to support you like a good shrink. They don't do the work you do it, but they might offer you some insight on how to do it, or help you figure things out for yourself. It does take a little time. That is the irony you must allow things to take their time or they will take much longer (like forever). The reason is you are pre-empting failure. I suggest researching some good CBT books on OCD and Anorexia/Eating disorder. There are many reasons for Anorexia/Bulimia in a way it a result of something else.

Danielismyname
I wish I were a classical nihilist

Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6246

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject:

Graelwyn wrote:

I wish I had never asked for help,... ...you should stick to it and mean it.

You didn't ask for help. You posted a statement that doesn't imply anything other than what it says, and if one replies to this how he/she sees it (taking things literally--it's something I do, and something I'll always do for I have this thing called autistic disorder that "makes" me do such), then that's not the fault of those who read your words, and then replies to them as they are written. We all have an opinion over statements for most of us can read them; not everyone can read emotion, or particularly cares for such (again, "ASD" forum).

Second part: at the time, yes.

Again, if one cannot see that I took your message literally, and it's blatantly obvious that I did; people seem to refuse this when I point it out?

ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence

Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5395
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

0_equals_true wrote:

Hi Grael

Illness like OCD, Anorexia, Anxiety Disorders, and many problems are best tackled by breaking things down to sufficiently small steps.

It is like this: The 'wall' is your problem. It will make you worse to to try and focus on the entire wall. It is too large and strong for you to push over, it is too high to climb. However if you focus on chipping away and individual bricks, or even the mortise between the bricks and then removing bricks slowly over time one by one eventually the wall will become unstable under its own weight and it with tumble to the ground. That's the beauty of it. You don't actually have to remove all the bricks just enough bricks for the wall to be come unstable.

It is really like this. I did it for social phobia. Ok there is some 'wall' still there, but large sections of the wall are completely destroyed.

It does help to have someone to support you like a good shrink. They don't do the work you do it, but they might offer you some insight on how to do it, or help you figure things out for yourself.

It does take a little time. That is the irony you must allow things to take their time or they will take much longer (like forever). The reason is you are pre-empting failure.

I suggest researching some good CBT books on OCD and Anorexia/Eating disorder. There are many reasons for Anorexia/Bulimia in a way it a result of something else.

That's a really good way of describing it! That's how I found therapy.

Aridarr, giving up isn't going to be a bad thing, you will give DIMN the satifation of your anger. That's why I'm pretending that he doesn't exist, so I don't lose it even more then I have.
I would try to let this go (or start PMing as Dracula suggested), and spend your energy on helping Grae, as she doesn't need anymore turmoil. (I know when I'm suicidal, anything is the last draw for me)
_________________
"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead'

ebec11
Missing In Action: Innocence

Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5395
Location: A Bubble in the Ocean

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject:

Danielismyname wrote:

Graelwyn wrote:

I wish I had never asked for help,... ...you should stick to it and mean it.

Even if she didn't ask for help, that isn't all that important. You should try to pick your battles, as you look hostile if you fight too often.
_________________
"You can do the math a thousand way, but you can't undo the past"
From P!nk's song 'I'm Not Dead'

Danielismyname
I wish I were a classical nihilist

Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6246

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject:

ebec11 wrote:

Even if she didn't ask for help, that isn't all that important. You should try to pick your battles, as you look hostile if you fight too often.

It's quite important if one expects a certain reply [and then becomes upset and resorts to personal attacks when they don't receive it]. There's no battle here [on my side], nor am I openly hostile; I'm "different", but that's a given considering where we are.

Graelwyn
Myrrdyn

Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 8424

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject:

0_equals_true wrote:

I am trying to learn to remain calm in the face of what I see in the mirror when I look, for a start and rationalise that hitting myself and breaking things will not change what I am seeing... but it is hard, given what I see makes me despise myself and view myself as a freak.

I ask other people about what I see, to see if it is normal.
If someone tells me that a part of my body looking like such and such happens to everyone, then it helps me get it into perspective, or I simply assume it is like that because I am deformed/ugly/fat etc, and although I do not take into account others' appearance much, my own seems to be paramount to my sense of worth and value.. I do not feel I have anything else I can be good at, if that makes sense.

I cannot achieve elsewhere, but I can achieve by controlling my body and trying to perfect that.

I think this is part of what has bought this on...my sense of being unable to do anything useful and good with my time when I do have it, so now I spend all my time on these obsessions so I do not have the opportunity to try and fail at anything else.

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