 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Could you keep your child(ren) at home ? |
| Yes |
|
24% |
[ 6 ] |
| Yes, if reorganised a bit |
|
8% |
[ 2 ] |
| yes, if reduced our income |
|
4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Yes, if made huge sacrifices/changes |
|
4% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, not possible |
|
28% |
[ 7 ] |
| Perhaps, hadn't really thought about it |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Don't know/other |
|
4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Already do |
|
28% |
[ 7 ] |
| Have tried it for a significant time period, but was no better/worse |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 25 |
|
| Author |
Message |
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| DW_a_mom wrote: | | Playing outside is a healthy thing to do, physically. Staying inside and sitting all day are not what our bodies were made for. |
 
School is exactly what the doctor ordered then, all those hours sitting at a desk, at fixed times, unable to move naturally as and when wish to, to let off steam, express emotional excitement, bounce and dance as ideas arrive and things happen. 
My ( home-unschooling) son takes natural breaks of movement; he is permanently in harmonious movement; the kind that most schools do not allow, what they call "wriggling" and "fidgetting", and fussing, and "not sitting still". The kind he would get so much flak for, constantly, every school day.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:54 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kd wrote: | | The special ed teacher has been the only one who has been able to get him to play outside with other boys his age (without complaining or tantruming). |
If children spend hours on one thing, or don't want to go out, or won't play with most other children, this is apparently a problem. That is what I am like; am I supposed to undergo remedial therapy? Should I be forced to go out, socialise, and change activities every hour like at school?
Why should a child "play outside with other boys his age"? I don't see why? Why is it an achievement, why is it laudable, where did this idea come from that children should behave like this?
This sort of attitude, unquestioned, repeated on thread after thread, reads like a message to all aspies in the area that the way they live is unacceptable, insufficient, inadequate, a half-life, etc. I protest this attitude. I refuse to believe that children should, to be healthy, be running around outside playing with other children of their own age.
I believe that the "oppositional"  child is very often just disagreeing with parents/teachers about what they want to do, and that very often there is no real reason why the child shouldn't do what it wants.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1002
Location: Northern California
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ouinon wrote: | | DW_a_mom wrote: | | Playing outside is a healthy thing to do, physically. Staying inside and sitting all day are not what our bodies were made for. |
School is exactly what the doctor ordered then, all those hours sitting at a desk, at fixed times, unable to move naturally as and when wish to, to let off steam, express emotional excitement, bounce and dance as ideas arrive and things happen.
My ( home-unschooling) son takes natural breaks of movement; he is permanently in harmonious movement; the kind that most schools do not allow, what they call "wriggling" and "fidgetting", and fussing, and "not sitting still". The kind he would get so much flak for, constantly, every school day.
|
Lol, trust you to find the irony in what I said!
But our house does not lend itself to outside play. When we are home, we're inside. Being total lumps.
_________________
Avatar copyright DW's Studio |
|
| Back to top |
|
kd
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 25
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ouinon wrote: | | kd wrote: | | The special ed teacher has been the only one who has been able to get him to play outside with other boys his age (without complaining or tantruming). |
If children spend hours on one thing, or don't want to go out, or won't play with most other children, this is apparently a problem. That is what I am like; am I supposed to undergo remedial therapy? Should I be forced to go out, socialise, and change activities every hour like at school?
Why should a child "play outside with other boys his age"? I don't see why? Why is it an achievement, why is it laudable, where did this idea come from that children should behave like this?
This sort of attitude, unquestioned, repeated on thread after thread, reads like a message to all aspies in the area that the way they live is unacceptable, insufficient, inadequate, a half-life, etc. I protest this attitude. I refuse to believe that children should, to be healthy, be running around outside playing with other children of their own age.
I believe that the "oppositional" child is very often just disagreeing with parents/teachers about what they want to do, and that very often there is no real reason why the child shouldn't do what it wants.
|
Staying indoors 24/7... not getting any physical exercise or social interaction is not healthy. I'm not trying to squash his uniqueness as a person with AS. I encourage his interests, but not at the cost of his health and education.
The fact remains that this is a world that requires one to have some form of social interaction to live as an independant adult. He will not have the skills to cope in such a world if he spends the next decade locked in his room playing video games. |
|
| Back to top |
|
katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree.
Healthy body makes a healthy mind... all studies show that excercise releases hormones that reduce stress, and even cure depression. Fidgetting just isn't enough! (Fidgetting could be seen as a symptom of not enough excercise)
(And then there is obesisty, diabetes, artherio schlerosis ect. ect.)
Sunshine likewize is imortant for the brain, mind and mood.
I think it is an old frashioned misconception that ASDies don't need to socialize - sure, they're often not good at it, but that's a different story.
Kids recieve different imput from different people, and we want them to grew up nuanced, not narrow. I believe we should give our children that gift.
Apart from that, we all have to do stuff we don't want to do, and it is utterly unrealistic to think otherwize. It is not a conformist view, it is stating a simple fact. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| katrine wrote: | | Fidgeting just isn't enough! (Fidgetting could be seen as a symptom of not enough exercise). |
But it's not fidgeting, that's my point. It is only school that thinks it is. 
It is natural harmonious exercise which happens at same time as thinking. Western society separates the two things up.
Whereas my son, as a result of not going to school, still does them both together, and therefore doesn't need artificial imposed exercise periods . He exercises as he thinks and plays. But schools do not allow this, and so try, and fail, to compensate for this in recreation and other set sports periods etc.
It is no wonder so many in the west are obese and unfit etc. School divides mental activity from physical. It makes exercise something brainless, and "work/study" something bodiless.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kd wrote: | | The fact remains that this is a world that requires one to have some form of social interaction to live as an independant adult. He will not have the skills to cope in such a world if he spends the next decade locked in his room playing video games. |
Research/studies increasingly show that video games teach social skills.
MMORPGs especially, World of Warcraft for instance, with their avatar systems, the extensive guild activities, team projects, meets for raids required to advance in the game, etc etc, all involve complex social skills that it has been found that many children and young adults will pick up more easily in game because less tense, less hostile, and because are not judged on appearance, skills which are then able to use in the "real" world.
Apparently the fact that, online, children can end up running ( organising, timetabling, motivating, planning steps to achieve goals, etc) teams in which there are adults of all ages and backgrounds is very motivating for many , and accounts for the many children's involvement in these games, in which they are respected on the basis of their skills, not judged on age or appearance. And these social skills transfer to real life.
Large corporations are now taking into account experience in-game of leading teams, of guild membership, of co-operative team behaviour, as evidenced by successes in quests etc. It counts as management experience.
Do not underestimate the increasing significance and importance in the world of "video games".
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:44 pm; edited 4 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1002
Location: Northern California
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ouinon wrote: | Do not underestimate the increasing significance and importance in the world of "video games".
|
I don't, and there is a good chance my son will end up working in that field, inventing the games.
HOWEVER, screen time is screen time, and I know from my own experiences with it that unlimited amounts are NOT healthy. People are not designed to interact with each other through computers. Social computer interaction can be positive, particularly for those not capable of interacting in any other way, don't get me wrong (given that I became hearing impaired a few years ago, for example, forums help me fill my need for in-depth intelligent conversation that I am no longer capable of conducting one on one). But it removes us from the world, instead of engaging us in it, and it doesn't feed the heart and soul in the same way moving about in the world of air and tangible construction does. Watching my son, it clearly applies to Aspies as well as NT's: you can't live life on a keyboard. It is no substitute.
_________________
Avatar copyright DW's Studio |
|
| Back to top |
|
katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please - natural harmonious excercise
About western schools: my son's school is really ok. But he DID love having his own teacher who did "frisbee maths", took him canoeing, catching fish he skinned and cooked (biology lessons), which originally was part of our homeschooling venture. Now the teacher in question is at his real school, still doing frisbee maths. I'm saying nothing is black and white, some schools are OK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DW_a_mom wrote: | | I know from my own experiences with it that unlimited amounts [ of screen time] are NOT healthy. People are not designed to interact with each other through computers. |
Which people? Quite a lot of people would disagree with you. | Quote: | | Social computer interaction can be positive, particularly for those not capable of interacting in any other way ...... but it removes us from the world, instead of engaging us in it. |
Who says so? This is a huge value judgement about what "the world" consists of, and a massive assumption about what being engaged in it means. | Quote: | | ...it doesn't feed the heart and soul in the same way moving about in the world of air and tangible construction does. |
Yours maybe. But mine? ... I have been coming alive since we got the internet two years ago. | Quote: | | ...you can't live life on a keyboard. It is no substitute. |
Not a substitute, no, it is now an essential and increasingly large part of it. And shows no sign of decreasing. In fact anyone who can manage hours of internet at a stretch is going to be at an advantage ( already is, if they know what they're doing on it ) . Something to be allowed full expression, so that can learn as many of the skills involved as well and as early as possible.
Parents putting limits on their childrens "screen time" may be limiting their learning process and adaptation to the 21st century. Children, for genetic survival reasons, tend to know what the most important things are to learn out of the world that surrounds them, if left to themselves.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am actually wondering whether in fact playing games on the internet all day might teach you more than being at school. I think that there is a serious chance that this may be true.
Self reliance, confidence, persistence, navigation, statistics, pattern recognition, interpretation of signs/signals, team work, etc etc, depending on the games, and heaps more besides.
If I didn't think this to some extent then I would have to think that my son's desire to play most of the day on the internet was addiction, or laziness, self-indulgence, avoidance or escapism, or an unhealthy "obsession", a problem. Something to fight, to restrict, to control.
Reading fiction, reading anything other than religious treatises and such like, was once considered worse than frivolous, risky for a child's moral and intellectual development.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don't kid yourself!
I'm hearing the rhetoric, but remember, Ouinon, these decisions are important for your son's future.
I don't know what's going on in your world, and I hope you're OK. I don't wish to offend you, but I can't help myself... sorry.
My mother-in-law has very cemented opinions: toothbrushing is overrated and a convention - 20 years of this and her teeth fell out. Bathing likewise - she got so smelly (one whole year without a bath when the public bathhouse closed - in protest! Actually her 13-year-old son forced her to get a shower in the end as he said he would move otherwise.)
Butter is healthy - she is very overweight. .
All germs are good for the immune system: she leaves meat on the pan and eats it 3 days afterwards. Sometimes I'm surprised she's alive She drinks really strong coffee afterwards as she thinks it ills the germs.
I cannot tell her how to live, but in many ways the hippie childhood she gave my husband was VERY tough. Materially, but also because he was very much excluded from the local society the family moved too. (Of course it had it's wonderfull sides, too.)
She, BTW, is not mentally ill but probably an aspie.
It is not an easy way to live. If you are choosing for yourself - fine. If you are choosing for a child, think really really hard, deep and with honesty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1002
Location: Northern California
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can't say I didn't expect you to get all over that last post of mine, ouinon. But, yes, I truly believe that there has to be some limit on screen time. That will probably vary by person, for many the good far outbalances the bad, and from your description I would say it has been overall healthy for you, BUT ...
I have found time on the computer to be addicting in an unhealthy manner, in a way that nothing else in my life is. It draws me to it when I would actually RATHER do something else. It draws me to it when I am supposed to be cleaning house, completing a work assignment, and more. It draws me to it when I have told myself a zillion times over that I am not opening it today.
My sister will stay up all night playing her Everquest.
Marriages have been ruined by obsessions with computer games that can't be stopped when the kids need to go to bed, the dishes need to be done, or sleep needs to be had.
The internet carries the same addictive qualities that gambling, drinking and drugs do. Some are immune to that effect; many are not.
Anything that has that potential, for ANYONE, must be consumed in moderation.
The internet is a very valuable tool. But one must always be aware: when has the tool become the master, instead of the other way around?
Our kids cannot watch this for themselves, so we have to.
_________________
Avatar copyright DW's Studio |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| katrine wrote: | Remember, Ouinon, these decisions are important for your son's future.
I don't know what's going on in your world, and I hope you're OK. I don't wish to offend you, but I can't help myself... sorry. If you are choosing for a child, think really really hard, deep and with honesty. |
Don't worry, I'm fine. It is precisely because I do remember that "these decisions are important for my son's future" that I have thought so long and hard about them.
Some of them have been in direct contradiction with my own deepest prejudices and assumptions, the result of long/heated discussions with my son, ( trying to listen to him, and respect/accept/understand what his experience is), and reading, and meeting other homeschoolers. As time has passed with increasingly good results, I have gained in confidence.
And got more used to challenging my favoured ideas because something my son does or says doesn't match/fit. Like with video games/internet ; I used to be terrified at how much he wanted to do it. It's taken me a lot of thought and effort to allow him to use it so freely.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DW_a_mom wrote: | | I have found time on the computer to be addicting in an unhealthy manner, in a way that nothing else in my life is. It draws me to it when I have told myself a zillion times over that I am not opening it today. My sister will stay up all night playing her Everquest. |
Would this worry you if it was a painting she was "obsessively" scraping away at? Or a novel that she was rewriting for the fourth time? Or if she was a keen chess player with a play-partner only available evenings/nights? Or if it was to earn money in a second job to support a family? My point is that your attitude to its use depends on what you think it is for and what value it has and whether it is a good thing .
| Quote: | | Marriages have been ruined by obsessions with computer games that can't be stopped when the kids need to go to bed, the dishes need to be done, or sleep needs to be had. |
Marriages have been ruined by many things. Passionate hobbies, one partner falling in love with someone else, and simple low-tech selfishness, aswell as escapist addictions.
| Quote: | | The internet carries the same addictive qualities that drinking, drugs, and gambling do. Anything that has that potential, for ANYONE, must be consumed in moderation. |
It is important to distinguish between chemical/physical, and psychological addictions. If you are chemically addicted to something, there's no use limiting its use, or talking about "consuming it in moderation", you have to cut it out completely.
If someone has the tendency to addictive behaviour, psychological addiction, they'll express it with almost anything, in fact the more they are told that something is bad for them, the more powerful its addictive pull will be. If you can think of it as good, ( eg: video games are "the future"  ),or indifferent/neutral, you'll be less likely to enter into the addiction dynamic with it.
The widespread ( and incorrect) image of video games as being divorced from reality is also going to add to the appeal. In fact they are quite strikingly grounded in the offline, with stunningly vivid examples of "real world" dynamics at every corner. From how the economics works, to the difficulties of getting a team to all turn up at the same time.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
