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| Out of curiosity, who here, who has smoked, thinks most people's addiction is |
| primarily physical/chemical to the nicotine |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
| EQUALLY physical/chemical , and psychological |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
| primarily psychological |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
| other, please expand |
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12% |
[ 2 ] |
| never smoked, not more than a few anyway |
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31% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: "Self-harm, Addiction, and Dependency" |
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 I think that the most troublesome aspect of smoking is the psychological addiction, that the chemical addiction is negligible; that exactly as with alcohol there are a few people for whom the tobacco in itself is a huge problem, but that the majority of smokers are addicted psychologically to the act/process of smoking cigarettes more than anything else.
For example; addicted to the relationship of dependence itself. "I have to have a cigarette!", and then the volupté of being able to satisfy their own need. A happy ending every 30 mins/hour or so, unlike their experience in babyhood, if fed by the clock for instance, when longing to suckle far more often.
I don't deny that most people who smoke more than a couple a day are addicted to the nicotine too, but firmly believe that withdrawal from it would be/is less painful and distressing than a bout of PMT, ( pre-menstrual tension) and/or a cold, if they weren't also massively dependent on the habit of cigarette smoking for psychological reasons. It is the psychological dependency which is so painful to break.
I decided recently, for the umpteenth time, that it is essential for my health that I do some small but regular aerobic exercise, but have difficulty making myself do it. Just as I have had trouble in the past stopping smoking, ( been smoke-free two and a half years), I find myself up against it about exercise.
It is as if I feel a need to "self-harm"/abuse to some degree in my life or I start to feel oppressed in some way. When I eliminate all "basic" forms of self-harm, as is more or less the case at the moment if I exercise, I feel under pressure. Whereas if there is something that I am consciously and deliberately doing despite knowing is probably bad for me, I feel freer or something.
I think that smoking is fulfilling, has been since the 70's, or earlier, when its ill effects on health became established, a self-harming function in our society. So now am wondering why people self-harm? Why do so many people in our society, me included, seem to need to do something that is explicitly bad for them?
I was remembering smoking, and how a bunch of us anywhere was like self-harming in public, ( as if we were cutting ourselves there in front of everybody), and that anyone who sat with us was part of the group because by breathing our smoke they were self harming with us. And how gloriously powerful it was, our smoke would frighten off all the "sensible", "adult" types who didn't self-harm. A puff was like a weapon. 
Any thoughts oh most great and thoughtful fellow wp members?   Anyone been addicted, is addicted, self-harms/ed, with insights on, or experience of this issue?
 
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Yep - I voted other.
I think people's addictions vary:
mine: I am addicted to nicotine. I chew nicotine gum, have for years. When I stop chewing gum, I start smoking. (And I DO know better!).
I can stop smoking again very easily - by chewing gum. I realize I have to do something about the gum, but haven't found the right solution yet!
As long as it is gum, I'm not too worried, although it is very expensive. Rather that than cigarettes, alcohol or drugs.
I know others who are psychologically addicted.
However, I don't think it's only about self-harm. I think a lot of it is brain chemistry - lack of dopamine receptors, for example. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| katrine wrote: | | I am addicted to nicotine. I chew nicotine gum, have for years. When I stop chewing gum, I start smoking. I can stop smoking again very easily - by chewing gum. ... However, I don't think it's only about self-harm. |
Is it possible that your addiction to gum is psychological, an addiction to "dependency", and you have just found out how to act out this relationship in a way which is relatively "harmless", compared to smoking. Or might that in fact be the reason you start smoking again, because the gum is not harmful enough to achieve the desired psychological effects?
Dependency is despised/pitied/rejected/resented/denigrated, almost taboo for any self-respecting adult in our society. Maybe the only way many people feel able to express their need for that kind of relationship/connection is with things which "excuse" their "dependency, camouflage their "choice" of it, because are widely considered "addictive" therefore irresistible.
One of the highest goals in western society is "independence", despite the fact that 100% independence is actually better known as death. I read somewhere that it ( i meant smoking, but it occurs to me that i've heard the same about reasons for suicide), is what people who dare not risk real dependency on real and fallible humans do.Maybe. But I think avoidance of this is practically encouraged in our society, even to the extent of increasingly transferring children's dependence to the state rather than their own parents.
Maybe the spread of smoking amongst the young is about ( perhaps quite naturally )desiring the ( taboo) state of dependency.
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I really don't get what the "self harm" element in my current resistance to exercise is, but it's there... I was thinking I might almost find it easier to exercise if I started smoking again. Seriously! 
As if I mustn't be "too good".I need some way of being "bad", even if I pretend it's not so bad. I seem to need to know I'm doing something that's not good for me; why?
Does anyone else get this?
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
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katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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No way - that's just silly  Starting smoking, I mean. Slow suicide.
Is so bad to be dependant on other people? We are social animals - even aspies!
Your theory is very interesting. Yes, control is a big element of social sucess today, and dependency is therefore taboo. I am around very self-controlled people all day (med students, doctors). You wouldn't believe how many have anorexia, or even drug addictions. The new thing/condition - I've forgotten the name - is in the same family as anoexia and bulimia, and is an obsession with living healthily.... SO BEWARE
My plan - which I have trouble following - is to live a life where I think less of how others judge me. I seem to spend my life tidying up, cleaning, and fretting people will think I'm hopeless (which I'm not). I know how stupid it is, but I can't stop... don't want to stop... |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| katrine wrote: | | No way - that's just silly Starting smoking, I mean. Slow suicide. |
Like "no exercise" is, apparently ! As bad for the health as smoking, if not more so.  Inactivity can be officially reclassified as "self-harm", the results are so dreadful.
In fact in countries where tobacco is still the unsweetened kind, rough, turkish cigarettes for example, the consequences of smoking are far less severe than in the west where cigarettes contain between 20-25 % sugar to cover up the bitter taste of tobacco which is otherwise a potent/useful anti-addiction factor. And inhaling caramel is obviously not very good for the lungs. It also adds a sugar hit to each cigarette.
| Quote: | | Is so bad to be dependant on other people? We are social animals - even aspies! |
Despite my preference for my own company, and an adult life spent fleeing dependency until fell into parenthood, I think that dependency is essential and healthy part of human life, and that the modern obsession with avoiding it may partly account for the rise in addictive behaviours which substitute for the more useful inter-human dependencies of old. The more people/society runs from it the more people will satisfy that need with artificial "agents" of dependency.
| Quote: | | Your theory is very interesting. |
Thank you! | Quote: |
The new thing/condition - I've forgotten the name - is in the same family as anoexia and bulimia, and is an obsession with living healthily.... SO BEWARE |
Yes, 16 years ago I dived into a major exercise and physical purity addiction. The most extreme period only lasted about 6 months, but the after effects were deep, and persisted for many years. I have a tendency to it. Which is why wonder if my need for "one" self-harming behaviour is actually a sign of mental health, a reaction against/resistance to, a return to such a complete/obsessive health regime. It's alright, not going to start smoking quite yet!! But it crossed my mind, ... attractively!
_________________
"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:19 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| katrine wrote: | | I am around very self-controlled people all day (med students, doctors). You wouldn't believe how many have anorexia, or even drug addictions. |
That is interesting, because the last person I knew with anorexia was also a doctor, medical student.
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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"Normal" people avoid seeing just how widespread dependent, addicted, and self harming behaviour is in our society, and discriminate against, denigrate, those whose dependencies, and self harming processes, are not the same or are "too" visible.
Because are like a terrible, and unbearable, reflection of their own state, people who are dependent but powerless, who can be scapegoated, must be banished, removed/cured, or hidden away/put together in a group until stop being like that ( children in school).
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
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katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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You messed with my head!
Now everytime I see some one smoking, I invision them cutting their arms. Seriously!!
I guess I'll never start smoking again.... |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1683
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I don't wholly disagree with your metaphorical comparison. I used to ponder self-destructive reasons as being related to my smoking, but that was when I was teenager & wrapped up in idea of self as tough & tormented-so it's more a "post-hoc" reason, after the fact of taking up habit-not a genuine reason I began in first place.
Primary reason I do or don't do things is based on how it feels-which in itself is complex bundle of actions, hard to tease apart the components.
Mind is property of brain function, which is outgrowth of having a physical body (incl. brain)-so psychological vs. physical is artificial duality IMHO.
Realize that some behaviors aren't immediately pleasurable (such as beer-an acquired taste), yet some folks keep at it until the substance "works for" them-thereby hangs another question.
My cigs. are clove blend, so they're not just tobacco. Know they're supposedly worse for my health, but I prefer them significantly to plain old "tobacco-only" ones.
Where does one draw line between "relief of pain" (what gets called "withdrawal symptom") vs. seeking of pleasure (that gets called "hedonistic indulgence") ? It's not simple (clear cut or absolute), in my view.
For instance, eating healthy food & exercising are both things that my body (incl. my mind) has no desire whatsoever to do. Intellectually, know I "should"-but "should" has no traction in motivating me, when it comes to ingesting material or expending kinetic energy. Then I think to myself that I'm a "misprint", genetically, because a creature (me) that has these traits of being attracted to unhealthy habits (and lack of drive to perform healthy, life-sustaining actions such as proper food & regular exercise) isn't going to do well for the species.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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katrine
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Copenhagen
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Belfast wrote: |
For instance, eating healthy food & exercising are both things that my body (incl. my mind) has no desire whatsoever to do. Intellectually, know I "should"-but "should" has no traction in motivating me, when it comes to ingesting material or expending kinetic energy. Then I think to myself that I'm a "misprint", genetically, because a creature (me) that has these traits of being attracted to unhealthy habits (and lack of drive to perform healthy, life-sustaining actions such as proper food & regular exercise) isn't going to do well for the species. |
But you're wrong - you would have been a great hunter-gatherer . Times of feast or famish: those who go for high calorie food - lots of it, put weight on fast, and don't waste unnecessary energy (=excercise) survive!
You're a genetic wonder! (and so am I)
Problem is our life-style evolved too fast, our bodies can't keep up.
And you're right about the whole body/mind thing. I agree you can't draw a line.
BTW I think we're programmed to be rewarded for eating (dopamine) and all substance abuse, including cigarettes, gives us the same reward. |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1683
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| katrine wrote: | But you're wrong - you would have been a great hunter-gatherer :lol: . Times of feast or famish: those who go for high calorie food - lots of it, put weight on fast, and don't waste unnecessary energy (=excercise) survive!
You're a genetic wonder! (and so am I)
Problem is our life-style evolved too fast, our bodies can't keep up. |
Thanks-guess I'm just in the wrong era, physiologically. Seems that desire to exercise & willingness/ability to eat healthily was always presented to me as both natural & normal-yet one more area in which I was an outlier, statistically. Appreciate the p.o.v. you provided.
| katrine wrote: | | And you're right about the whole body/mind thing. I agree you can't draw a line. |
Agree that whatever one's system finds rewarding has similar effect-pleasure is pleasure, just that what elicits/evokes that reaction differs with the individual. In some instances, one is driven by intellectual-emotional (conscious idea/thought/appraisal) level, in other instances one is motivated more by emotional-sensory (nonverbal, partly conscious) perceptions/concerns.
| katrine wrote: | | BTW I think we're programmed to be rewarded for eating (dopamine) and all substance abuse, including cigarettes, gives us the same reward. |
"Drugs" seem integral part of living environment of all creatures/organisms (don't mean newfangled pharmaceutical ones). Have read historical perspective: "Plant Intoxicants"-Baron Ernst von Bibra, "Food of the Gods"-Terence McKenna, "Intoxicants"-Ronald K. Siegel.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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EvilKimEvil
zoo-music girl
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 3040
Location: highway to hell
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I used to smoke, but it wasn't very addictive at all. I stopped and started countless times without effort.
I know that most people experience smoking as intensely addictive. My observations of typically addicted smokers indicate that it is both physically and psychologically addictive. |
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