| Was he gay? |
| Yes |
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34% |
[ 17 ] |
| no |
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36% |
[ 18 ] |
| not sure |
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28% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| pandabear wrote: | | Jesus did kiss Judas in the Garden of Gethsemane. |
Even today this custom remains, not necessarily with the Europeanized Jews, but with the Arabs and other semitic cultures of the middle east.
Matthew 26:48-49 KJV
"(4 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast."
(PNT commentary) Mat 26:48-49 Gave them a sign. A kiss; a common method of salutation among intimate friends. A sign was needful to point Jesus out to the soldiers. Such a traitorous kiss was the depth of depravity--enmity under the guise of friendship.
"(49) And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him."
In the middle east, both today and 3000 years ago as well as in between, kissing has been comparable to shaking hands in European cultures. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 11156
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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lucky is the least likely of answers? there were most likely dozens of messiahs from the period to have been attached to and constantine was raised up with the christ myth and that's how it really started being propagated...the holy roman empire.
as far as unlikelihood....my page provides that there were other messiahs and they did gain pre-eminance over jesus for a while but what really solidified christianity as a religion was constantine's conversion. and as far as the legitimacy of that....just look up the donatists.
| wikiresearch wrote: | The primary disagreement between Donatists and the rest of the early Christian church was over the treatment of those who renounced their faith during the persecution of Roman emperor Diocletian (303–305), a disagreement that had implications both for the Church's understanding of the Sacrament of Penance and of the other sacraments in general.
The rest of the Church was far more forgiving of these people than the Donatists were. The Donatists refused to accept the sacraments and spiritual authority of the priests and bishops who had fallen away from the faith during the persecution. Many church leaders had gone so far as to turn Christians over to Roman authorities and had handed over sacred religious texts to authorities to be publicly burned. These people were called traditors ("people who had handed over"). These traditors had returned to positions of authority under Constantine I, and the Donatists proclaimed that any sacraments celebrated by these priests and bishops were invalid. |
from a moral standpoint, i think the donatists have a very good point and i agree with their viewpoint of ex opere operantis. i'd say you seem like you would too but i doubt you have any actual morals of your own..just what you're spoonfed by others.
but anyways, the point is that christianity didn't miraculously spread. constantine had a christian mother and was introduced to it from birth and most likely kept it hidden until such a time when he was in position to make a move towards public conversion (what a new and ground-breaking idea: lying to the people about what you really believe...sounds like politics hasn't changed at all in the thousands of years). |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Spoonfed by others?  What a wonderful insult, thank you. And does your morality come from yourself?
So are you aware of Christianity before it became the state religion of the Roman empire? Do you know any history of the pre-Catholic Church? The persecutions of the fathers? Ignatius or Martyr ring a bell? |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 11156
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | Spoonfed by others? What a wonderful insult, thank you. And does your morality come from yourself?
So are you aware of Christianity before it became the state religion of the Roman empire? Do you know any history of the pre-Catholic Church? The persecutions of the fathers? Ignatius or Martyr ring a bell? |
okay....so? there were also many traitors during that same period who later converted back with constantine's HRE.
i'm very much aware of pre-constantine. i went to a jesuit high school and had to take religion classes (by religion, i of course mean jesuit christianity...there was no studies of islam or budhism or even judaism).
so yeah....i repeat: so what? people face persecution and follow their beliefs all the time. it means very little other than the amazing ability of humans to persevere in the face of adversity.
my morality is still evolving as i take in the world around me and learn more and see more of what my actions do to others. my morality is that of concern for others, not concern for some imagined deity. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | from a moral standpoint, i think the donatists have a very good point and i agree with their viewpoint of ex opere operantis. i'd say you seem like you would too but i doubt you have any actual morals of your own..just what you're spoonfed by others. |
Who has ever developed spontaneous morals, independant of other human beings? If you're all alone, who is there to teach you values and right from-wrong? Inaminate objects? Sure, I was spoonfed my morals. They were given to me by others, but they have become my own. I think you're taking this "nonconformist freethinker rebel" stuff way too far.
John Donne said, No man is an island.
And he was right. |
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MartyMoose
Social Satirist
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 1084
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe he was an aspie and just couldn't get laid |
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 2498
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Given that he though he was God I'd guess he was a Schizophrenic with a Messiah Complex.
_________________
My Blog: My Autistic Life |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MartyMoose wrote: | | Maybe he was an aspie and just couldn't get laid |
Jesus wasn't trying to get laid. He was celibate. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | Given that he though he was God I'd guess he was a Schizophrenic with a Messiah Complex. |
Funny you should say that. During his ministry, lots of people assumed he was crazy. Others thought he must be demonically possessed. And others believed took Jesus for his word, believing what He said. |
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LiendaBalla
Phoenix
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Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 2857
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: |
Jesus lived a very simple life and did receive any formal education that we know of. |
I think it would be an good challenge, emotionaly, to have dealt with all that went against Jews, and then step up and act like some leader for them in a way ( a threat in another), and knowing people are going to kill or torture you for it. That doesn't sound very simple to me. That sounds scarey.  If you feel you could go against the odds, my bows to you. |
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LiendaBalla
Phoenix
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Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 2857
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | Spoonfed by others? What a wonderful insult, thank you. And does your morality come from yourself?
So are you aware of Christianity before it became the state religion of the Roman empire? Do you know any history of the pre-Catholic Church? The persecutions of the fathers? Ignatius or Martyr ring a bell? |
What insult? Someone saying they think it's a myth is .. saying they think it's a myth... |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect that Jesus was bisesxual at the most, quite possibly straight. Remember Mary Magdalen and the story behind The Last Temptation of Christ? Theres a highly controversial conjecture that after surviving the crucifiction, he knocked someone up and fathered a child  . I really DO wonder about Jesus sometimes, I often wonder if he 's really the man we think he was. Today, Jesus is portrayed by many evangelicals as being a mythological figure-kinda like a Divine Cosmic Superman.
I have read some anecdotes BTW that claim the storyline behind the Superman comic/mythos was based on Jesus Christ  . |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| D1nk0 wrote: | I suspect that Jesus was bisesxual at the most, quite possibly straight. Remember Mary Magdalen and the story behind The Last Temptation of Christ? Theres a highly controversial conjecture that after surviving the crucifiction, he knocked someone up and fathered a child . I really DO wonder about Jesus sometimes, I often wonder if he 's really the man we think he was. Today, Jesus is portrayed by many evangelicals as being a mythological figure-kinda like a Divine Cosmic Superman.
I have read some anecdotes BTW that claim the storyline behind the Superman comic/mythos was based on Jesus Christ . |
1. Yes, Superman was/is a Secular Messisah.
2. Why the obession with Jesus' sexuality? Why do you persist with it?  |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 11156
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | from a moral standpoint, i think the donatists have a very good point and i agree with their viewpoint of ex opere operantis. i'd say you seem like you would too but i doubt you have any actual morals of your own..just what you're spoonfed by others. |
Who has ever developed spontaneous morals, independant of other human beings? If you're all alone, who is there to teach you values and right from-wrong? Inaminate objects? Sure, I was spoonfed my morals. They were given to me by others, but they have become my own. I think you're taking this "nonconformist freethinker rebel" stuff way too far.
John Donne said, No man is an island.
And he was right. |
my point is that he has no morals other than what he is told. some people can develop morals through empathy like me while others have to rely on authoritative figures like church figures and that crap. my point is my morals are not marbles filling a glass but water. my morals while first introduced by others are refined and redefined as i go through life and learn more and see more of the world.
stagnant morality is as bad as no morality because it ends up with stupid garbage like that thread equating homosexuality to bestiality.
indeed, no man is an island...that's why my morals are ever evolving because i interact with people and gain different perspectives.
as far as taking nonconformist freethinker too far: obviously i haven't gone far enough yet. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | my point is that he has no morals other than what he is told. some people can develop morals through empathy like me while others have to rely on authoritative figures like church figures and that crap. my point is my morals are not marbles filling a glass but water. my morals while first introduced by others are refined and redefined as i go through life and learn more and see more of the world. |
The church isn't my only source of moral guidance. Wasn't my first and won't be my last, either. The process of going through life and seeing more of the world is exactly how one develops his own conscience. And that of course means learning from others. Not just authority figures, not just the church.
The ability to empathize of itself is insufficient to develop a conscience. Sooner or later, from whatever source, guidance is necessary. Accepting guidance is no loss of face, and it does not mean you are being "spoonfed." |
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