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FutureCatLady
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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This is wild. Since I started my new job a year ago, I've found myself being a little too vocal and forceful with people of higher rank - without realizing I'm doing it until it's done.
I embarassed myself one day when I emailed a person of similar rank to myself for information. He wouldn't give it to me, but instead, another person got into the conversation.
We had a multi-email tug of war going in which we debated procedure. I was wondering, "Who IS this guy and why is he debating me as if I don't know what I'm doing???" Then he said something that made me realize we were talking about two different procedures. THEN I took the time to read his signature and found out he was the facility General Manager. LOL!
I apologized for the misunderstanding. My manager was cool about it (he'd been copied on all of it, too.LOL)
I guess that's how I demonstrated that I'm not easily pushed around. I will push back. It's hard for me to let go of an issue sometimes - which drives ME crazy, too.
I've been called "defensive" by other employers. I hate that term. But hey, if I feel unfairly challenged, I'll react. I'm ALWAYS tactful, tho.
I try to keep it professional. But don't pull rank on me when it's not needed.
I've found a lot of managers aren't qualified for their jobs.
Respect me and I'll respect you.
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My wardrobe is made almost entirely of cathair. . .Is that okay? |
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Warsie
HMFIC G Representin' Da South Side of Chi-Town
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
Age: 17
Posts: 1392
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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About the Social Hierarchy....why not overlook peoples gossip? Or simply ask people in who are the 'popular' people? I did it and it worked for me (asking a person I sufficently trusted)
EDIT: thx for reminding me why those 'radical left' ideas are right. They destroy this bullshit social ladder/stratification
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I am a Star Wars Fan, Warsie here.
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.911truth.org/
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cd1
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Power relations unawareness - an aspie trait? |
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| willem wrote: |
This is not always true. It depends on the personality of the "influential" individual. Bosses/leaders do not all have inflated egos; the good ones are open to ideas that they can't come up with themselves. Also, places of work that are supervised by people with highly inflated egos are probably not suitable for us Aspies, except maybe if the job is temporary. |
There are a lot less "good ones" in that regard than there are mediocre ones who won't stand for being undermined. As with anything else in life, there is a balance to be maintained. You may not feel it reasonable to respect the boss' boss' status simply because of his position. Do you respect his status when it gives him the authority to sign your paycheck? That's a part of his position - compensating you for your work, promoting you for your merits/achievements - and you have to respect his status when he's a PITA as much as you do when he's rewarding you. If you don't want to play the status game when it benefits him he's not going to play it when it benefits you.
It is possible for an aspie to learn social/professional networking. I have and I'm actually very good at it. To be honest, it's a balance between proactive professionalism and a "fake you" - a similar "fake you" to the one you put on display in social gatherings. This "fake you" is for professional environments, though, and is very much about recognition of heirarchy and maintenance of contacts (another tough one for aspies). |
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FutureCatLady
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Power relations unawareness - an aspie trait? |
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| cd1 wrote: | | willem wrote: |
This is not always true. It depends on the personality of the "influential" individual. Bosses/leaders do not all have inflated egos; the good ones are open to ideas that they can't come up with themselves. Also, places of work that are supervised by people with highly inflated egos are probably not suitable for us Aspies, except maybe if the job is temporary. |
There are a lot less "good ones" in that regard than there are mediocre ones who won't stand for being undermined. As with anything else in life, there is a balance to be maintained. You may not feel it reasonable to respect the boss' boss' status simply because of his position. Do you respect his status when it gives him the authority to sign your paycheck? That's a part of his position - compensating you for your work, promoting you for your merits/achievements - and you have to respect his status when he's a PITA as much as you do when he's rewarding you. If you don't want to play the status game when it benefits him he's not going to play it when it benefits you.
It is possible for an aspie to learn social/professional networking. I have and I'm actually very good at it. To be honest, it's a balance between proactive professionalism and a "fake you" - a similar "fake you" to the one you put on display in social gatherings. This "fake you" is for professional environments, though, and is very much about recognition of heirarchy and maintenance of contacts (another tough one for aspies). |
I completely agree with you. That's why I hate corporate America. Because I have to be a "fake me". And I cannot tolerate pretentiousness in anything or anyone. But it's the only way to get ahead or stay afloat in a professional environment. My long term goal is to be completely self-supporting. (Or hit a lottery. lol)
That way, I can fire my client if things aren't going well. Yes, I have a long way to go yet.
I worked in hell for almost five years with a general manager who was an unbelievable egotist. He was NEVER wrong, even when he was completely wrong. And he had no respect for the employees. None. He and I bumped heads several times, but I was doing my job so well, he couldn't find a sufficient lie to fire me. Why didn't I quit? There was no place else to go at the time - and I was constantly looking. (That opportunity literally fell in my lap, though, and I am much happier today.)
As long as they sign your paycheck, you have to keep them happy. The trick is in maintaining your self-respect at the same time.
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My wardrobe is made almost entirely of cathair. . .Is that okay? |
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cd1
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| There's another balance to consider - a dickhead is a dickhead. Not every difficulty you have in your life is because you're on the wrong planet. This guy could easily be dicking everyone else around too. |
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OverlyIntense
Butterfly
Joined: Apr 27, 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I had no idea there was a social hiearchy.  I've heard about it on animal planet, but I never related it to man. My mind is being blown whenever I take time to process my memories through this new concept you have been talking about.
I had a job for a long time of 4 years. I stepped on many peoples feet, but I was able to get away with it. Probably because I was the only tech guy, worked cheap, worked long hours, and I was really good at what I did. I would always enter into debates with the boss about decisions that affected the companies technology infrastructure. Luckily my boss was interested in technology toys enough to somewhat understand the concepts. It was probably a one in thousand once in a lifetime job. But I was always struggling to keep going to work, and after 4 years I finally had a melt down. They really wanted me to come back but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
When I watch the TV show "The Office" I often find that Dwight Schrute reminds me of myself. Especially the earlier seasons where he wasn't quite as extreme. I have a feeling that Dwight is based of Aspie workers the writers have worked with in the past, or have heard stories of. |
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TrueDave
is learning the hard way.
Joined: Jul 28, 2007
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I asked about this before in relation to an adult class I was taking.
Interesting that ignoring the hierarcy rather than challenging it is taken as more agressive because by ignoring it you threaten its existence!
So if you ignore it your more likely to get your ass kicked than if you say hey Im not low man on the ladder here!!! |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 2210
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Biggest truth ever spoken to Aspies, TrueDave.
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"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl" - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Rowen
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| So aspies are not even the lowest ranking person in the group. We aren't even a part of the group. As we are unable to join it, even if we wanted too. So like a group of monkeys on Animal Planet you get picked by everyone because you aren't a part of the group and have no social standing. |
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1885
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Postperson wrote: | yes, that's what workplace gossip is for.
ugh gossip, they adore it don't they. it's like money, has a real value in NT world. |
I've read that gossip, deception, and manipulation of power relations were the main drivers of the increase in brain size in our ancestors, there was basically an arms race in using lying and manipulation to increase one's social standing, with gossip being the "intelligence." Over the long term this actually led to social structures becoming more egalitarian, though the power hierarchies are still there, but they are not as obvious as they are in, say, chimpanzees. The increasing egalitarianism itself then contributed to increasing brain size because it caused social relationships to become much more complicated and fluid, with informal hierarchies forming and disintegrating constantly. Thinking of reality as a social reality is probably the cause of the origin of religion, people interpreted the world in terms of conscious agents, gods and spirits, instead of objects.
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 2210
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Odin, that was a very interesting comment. Indeed, when people so often tell me to befriend animals instead of people because I don't have chemistry with humans, I tell them that the things I don't like in humans are even more rigid in animals: the social hierarchy and the conformism.
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"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl" - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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TrueDave
is learning the hard way.
Joined: Jul 28, 2007
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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The animal thing is a good point.
I see from watching the Dog Whisperer, a show about a professional dog handler teaching problem animals, that theres a pecking order with a dog.
That stopped me from getting one partially. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6797
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Power relations unawareness - an aspie trait? |
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| Greentea wrote: | This may sound too weird but I didn't know till recently that you're supposed to behave differently towards someone depending if they're in a position of power in relation to you or not. Eg: if a person is highly influential in a group and you're not, you don't express an opinion that goes against their beliefs.
People were usually appalled at my lack of "sensitivity" in this respect, automatically thinking I was "rebellious" rather than unaware.
Has anyone else here experienced something like this? |
Obviously you are not unaware, so what is your excuse for this lack of sensitivity? |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6797
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| TrueDave wrote: | The animal thing is a good point.
I see from watching the Dog Whisperer, a show about a professional dog handler teaching problem animals, that theres a pecking order with a dog.
That stopped me from getting one partially. |
There's a show called At the End of My Leash. That guy is an a$$hole who thinks dogs are people and people are animals. Obviously this guy has a pathological need to dominate others.Talk about no understanding of social reality! I'm appalled and amazed at how the families on this show are disrespected and insulted on a regular basis. The behaviours he has are outrageous. Crikey, Steve Irwin loved animals but also loved people! Steve Irwin, rest in peace. Jeff the Dog Whisperer, you need a sound thrashing. |
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MostlyHarmless
Butterfly
Joined: May 16, 2008
Age: 48
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| I had a great manager once. When we first met he didn't come off as egotistical at all but he was very aware of presenting a good image. I didn't understand this until one day we were walking together drinking coffee when he coughed and a bit of coffee came out of his mouth. He was SO humiliated and me kinda being Data-like couldn't understand it. He kept apologizing and blushing about his blunder. Finally, I said seriously, "it's O.K Brad, I have gas." I was just trying to relate. Well, he laughed so hard that he spit coffee again but this time he didn't apologize! We've been great friends ever since |
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