techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: grrr... |
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I know this isn't a relationship issue but then again it is a gender-relations issue and this is about the only place I think it fit.
I've notice that with certain types of people who I run into, there seems to be a pretty predictable cycle I have in terms of problems - mainly with some women my age. It can usually start off one or two ways - either with them showing blatant disgust or fear over the fact that I look different, or in this case, flirting with me in a way from which I can tell is purely emotional-evaluation and then having it disintigrate into this. Whichever way, it starts when they realize I'm different. Right now I'm having this issue from someone of the latter. What happens is when women or pretty much anyone ends up showing me an undo ammount of attention and I sense them looking at me, it's almost gravitating for me to look back at em. Of course when someone's paranoid and is fitting me into the context that I'm crazy or a potential threat, this just makes em do it more, makes em even get more creeped out by it, and in the end the problem usually only gets fixed by me realizing for sure that I'm seeing what I thought I was (or in a lot of cases hearing em spaz out to someone kinda over my shoulder about how crazy they think I am) - from there the only thing that works is me making an asserted effort to completely ignore em. At least in this case, the girl she spazzed out to has been a friend of mine for a while and I'm sure was reacting like she had no idea what she was talking about or was at least vouching for my being allright. Regardless, its stuff like this still happening that keeps me so hard on myself about my outward AS signs and seems to erode my ability to control my surroundings (in the sense of keeping the peace for myself like I want to in life and maintaining my dignity in other people's eyes - people like this are like freeradicals destablizing everything I work for).
Why the heck would I care about that kind of thing? Well, for one that and getting real condescending or concieted reactions out of women is one reason why I just don't flirt all that often and even when they have a better attitude then that I'm too worried about what their friends will think of me (if they have someone talking up in their ear like that, it's gonna have a negative impact). Lol, I'm extremely aware of the type of nonverbal behavior that sparks this kind of behavior, usually the only times I really get these reactions off the bat are when I'm overloaded, out of it, and generally looking kinda sketchy. I guess seeing this happen again will at least reinforce my vows to obliterate whatever outward traces of autism I have, not because I care that much of what people think of me but because it's a major attack on my dignity rought on by my AS. I hate to throw out an aimless vent but what the heck, if it helps people understand me better or if other people here at least have been through it and never talked about it I'd love for em to know that they're not the only one's going through it. I just wish to god people could get their shite together and go by who someone was rather than basing it all on their nonverbals because it seems like some of the most stupid and innane things in life can really keep you out of the box... |
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neongrl
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 704
Location: Delhi, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I've seen you post things like this enough times in the past that I know how hard this is on you. It still concerns me though. Just be careful and take care of yourself - I'm sure you know how unhealthy it can be if you're too hard on yourself over it. I know there's no easy answer, short of society collectively changing itself...  For what it's worth, you know you have my support - I wish I could say something more helpful. There's so many members around here, hopefully this'll sound familiar to someone... |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| I'll be fine by tommorow I think. Again, my sensitivity to this kind of thing mostly comes from the fact that all through school I let other people's misconceptions like that collapse my personality, collapse my identity, and almost let them pull the strings over my social behavior. Even though I took a u-turn personalitywise and vowed never to let anyone do that to me again, I still feel all those labels and emotions from my school days hitting me in the face and it's jarring. |
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AbominableSnoCone
Cybernetic Vampiric Werewolf Ninja
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 1691
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quite the pain in the ass ain't it
I've noticed that if I happen to glance at them they will tend to start whispering (assumingly about how I glanced at them)
But if I force myself to stare straight ahead at the chalkboard (in class) I will sometimes overhear people talking about how weird it is that I am just staring straight ahead ((and yes I have actually, physically overheard people saying that about me, when they were sitting behind me))
Quite the Catch-22 isn't it?
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently, there is something slightly off about how I carry myself: I think it might be some combination of prosody; slightly clumsy gate; blank facial expression with occasional, brief smiles or laughter; the fact that I don't talk to people very much; and a lack of eye contact when I do talk to people. I also tend to have trouble making reciprocal conversation about anything but a few basic topics I've learned to invoke in most conversations with new people (or sometimes acquaintances I've talked to before), which prevents me from building the deeper connections necessary for true friendships and romance as well.
Luckily, over the past few years, I've acclimated myself to social interactions to the extent that, even if I'm not successful in them, I don't feel nervous or too shy while socializing; this is the result of my desire for friendships being much stronger than the inhibitions that have prevented me from making progress. I try to maintain a sense of self-confidence that people advise is attractive and makes you seem more open to people. I do feel a bit down afterwards, though, if the interaction didn't go as well as I would have liked. I take the approach of trying over and over, using any new tactics I can think of, to help bring me to social success (i.e., to my goals of making offline friends and having a loving girlfriend). If one person is speaking dismissively and abruptly when talking to them, I'll just try meeting some other people. If they think I'm weird or creepy or something like that, I can surely find other people who won't come to these conclusions about me. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Here's how it is for me, I've learned that usually the best weapon against those kinds of looks is looking arround as if your minding your own business but looking pleasantly oblivious like you couldn't imagine that you're the type of person who'd be looked at like that - it sends em some nonverbal messages that have em second guessing themselves. My problem though is still, I can neutralize it but it's still a shocker and it still brings back a lot of old memories that I'd really rather not get hit with.
What screwed me up last night is I wasn't expecting her to go that far with it and quite often too I find more than enough girls handle that kind of nonverbal tension with a lot more class than what I mentioned. Either they'll smile, pretend they don't notice you, or whatever, but they're reaction is more peace-keeping and socially fluid - which is what I try to do if I'm on my guard when someone gives me one of those funky glares. I'd guessed she had more class like that but oh well, you live and learn... |
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Papillon
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 02, 2005
Posts: 653
Location: Sudbury, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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tsg8,
Upon reading your post, my own high school memories play in my mind's eye like a videoclip. I can relate to how you feel.
Cruel, narrow-minded people are and likely will be an issue we Aspies must continue to endure for some time to come. My feelings for these people you mention playing those games are unmentionable here. Other than having low self-esteems of their own and not being able to figure out something better to do with themselves, I don't know.
I finished my high school years in a mining town (population 10,000) before AS ever entered the medical radar and my reputation was as widespread through town as it was in school. To add to that, its population was a mainly red-necked sort that came from a dark pre-industrial revolution time. I even got a lot of prank phone calls during those years. When I think back, I don't know how I got through it all myself.
It should be nice to know there is a name to that condition. I wish I could give you a straight answer to what you're dealing with. Your environment looks like one of high school or college -correct me if I'm wrong. All I can say is hang in ther and don't give up. Feel free to ask me any Q you might have.
_________________
If "manners maketh man" as someone said
Then he's the hero of the day
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
**Sting, Englishman In New York |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think my biggest issue is I have that philosophy, at least in regard to myself, that if I look and act a certain way I deserve to be treated that way - not because it's absolute truth but because in our society that's just how things are done. Yeah, as you can guess, I'm one of those people who's having a real hard time accepting himself as handicapped, mostly because I just 'look' it in the superficials, don't feel the part at all, completely understand that society is supposed to work like this (human beings being, well, eugenic apes), and as much as I have 110 willpower to rise above it and beat it my physiology just won't let me. At times like this it's not that I'm mad about what happened as much as it takes that huge gulf between who I am inwardly, who I feel I am, and reality of what I am outwardly, and really slaps me across the face with it.
As for highschool or college, I'm a week away from 26 and I'm in my last few classes before I have my BBA. What's realy wierd is that if I were as crazy as people like that seem to think I look, would I have even been able to make it that far without breaking down, getting kicked out of college, possibly thrown in an institution... people like that evidently don't reason these things out before they rush to judgement. |
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PseudointellectualHorse
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Pasadena, California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Papillon wrote: | | Upon reading your post, my own high school memories play in my mind's eye like a videoclip. |
Childhood is a terrible thing. I wouldn't return to childhood under any circumstances for all the money in the world. If you're different, it's exceedingly difficult to learn social skills, because there's nothing for you to emulate and nothing you do ever works. You bounce around, painfully aware that every move you make is wrong. After enough years have passed, you may have found that a few of the random bounces yielded acceptable results, and these you remember. You've acquired, at a terrible cost, the skill set that allows you to be somewhat functional. This is your most precious possession.
In retrospect, as awful as life may be, I've also come to regard it as our personal challenge. I lament my own struggles, which I know I'll never be free of until my dying day; on the other hand, I wouldn't voluntarily change places with anyone else in the world. To be alive is to be saddled with emotional (not to mention physical) baggage. Nobody gets a free ride, even if it appears otherwise. |
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Sanityisoverrated
Phoenix
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Joined: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| My reaction to that sort of thing is usually a slight curl of the lips and a raise of the eyebrow. Try and revel in your ability to make others feel uncomfortable. Remember- with great power comes great amusement! |
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Papillon
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 02, 2005
Posts: 653
Location: Sudbury, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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[Turns and flashes that rude NT jerk the Winston Churchill glower]
_________________
If "manners maketh man" as someone said
Then he's the hero of the day
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
**Sting, Englishman In New York |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wanted to mention, since this thread is still getting attention, I haven't had any wierd things happen since then wither. Maybe once or twice she may have reacted again like that if she felt me focusing in her direction (not even intentional on my part and I'm guessing probably not on hers either) but other than that she's been minding her own business pretty well. |
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PseudointellectualHorse
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Pasadena, California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sanityisoverrated wrote: | | My reaction to that sort of thing is usually a slight curl of the lips and a raise of the eyebrow. Try and revel in your ability to make others feel uncomfortable. Remember- with great power comes great amusement! |
Is it amusing to cultivate those characteristics within yourself that you despise in others? It may be a grim necessity to react unpleasantly to unpleasant circumstances, but you're doing more damage to yourself than to your adversary if you're trying to convince yourself that this is fun. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sanityisoverrated wrote: | | My reaction to that sort of thing is usually a slight curl of the lips and a raise of the eyebrow. Try and revel in your ability to make others feel uncomfortable. Remember- with great power comes great amusement! |
Usually, if I'm on my toes and catch something like that quick enough to give a good facial response, I'll try to do what I think a high-status NT would do. IMO that would be to crack a sarcastic smile, laugh, and if they're close enough say "Hi, how are ya?" in that condescending way like your kinda laughing at em and kinda in so many words saying 'What?'. |
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redvelvet
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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You shouldn't worry about the way others are around you, I laughed and thought your avater was you and that would scare anyone. Neurotypical people do live ina box and who really wants to live in a box? people have probably told you that the right person will come along, and the fact that you do flirt sometimes and women flirt with you that means you can't be that bad looking.
If they talk about you in a derogatory way then there not worth knowing, find some new friends, let them get to know you for a while before you tell them about Aspergers, this way they won't label you, For years I always thought my husband was odd and now I know why, but even with Aspergus he has made a lovely husband and dad, and i am sure you will too, and even Neurotypical people don't control situations, its always a joint effort, all we can all do is control ourselves.  |
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