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| Who killed Anne Frank? |
| Charles Darwin |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Karl Marx |
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4% |
[ 3 ] |
| The CEO of I.G. Farben |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Christians or some other mystic sort |
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5% |
[ 4 ] |
| Some liberal guy |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Some conservative guy |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Adam Smith |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other |
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16% |
[ 11 ] |
| All of the above |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Hitler |
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67% |
[ 45 ] |
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| Total Votes : 67 |
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MissPickwickian
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Age: 16
Posts: 950
Location: Tennessee
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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It seems everybody's saying that their political opponents were, in an earlier form, responsible for the rise of Nazism.
Christians blame the whole deal on Darwinism (see the recent film Expelled, which somebody just dragged me kicking and screaming to). Liberals tend to think of the Holocaust as the outcome of the belief that people are unequal, as well as an overactive military-industrial complex (blame I.G. Farben!). Libertarians call religious mysticism and Marxism on the national socialists.
I consider them all to be correct and wrong. If you actually read Nazi literature, you will see that the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence--science, religion, communism, nationalism, environmentalism, etc.--and turned it all really evil. Nazism, unlike wholly right-wing Italian fascism or wholly left-wing communism, was a casserole ideology--"let's throw everything in a pot and see how many people we can kill!"
Since the third Reich had a bit of everything, it is very easy to exploit; all you have to do is play up one particular ingredient in the Nazi casserole in a way that makes your opponent look bad.
That's my two cents. |
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Averick
Anarchic Aberrational Anathema
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1980
Location: Sorry, I'm no Jedi.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I think you are on to something..
Anne Frank though was killed by the Nazi's. The Nazi's who found the door to their loft, hidden behind a bookcase. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4629
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: Re: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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| MissPickwickian wrote: | | was a casserole ideology--"let's throw everything in a pot and see how many people we can kill!" |
the US is falling quickly into that path. right now we have the social conservatism with the entitlement of socialism and a little bit of racism against anyone of persian or arabian descent.
the difference is that the true superiority part of the equation is kept only to the top. it's a core principle of neo-conservatism...lie to the public because what you're doing is for the greater good and create black and white high contrast imagery to help create a motivated nationalistic public.
irving kristol, ironically enough, has put together all the key structures of nazism into a new package and that combined with the baby boomer's inflated sense of entitlement (the most spoiled generation because "the greatest generation" couldn't raise their kids) and we continue to move ever closer to the evils of the nazis. already, the liars feel justified in torturing people and the people are so brainwashed into nationalism that they justify it to themselves and consider those who are being tortured to be less than human and less deserving of humane treatment.
the death camps probably have been in place for a while now. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5689
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| I like this thread. I blame Hitler though, Nazism was a bunch of crap thrown together more than anything else. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | I like this thread. I blame Hitler though, Nazism was a bunch of crap thrown together more than anything else. |
How could you blame Hitler and not the movement he created? I don't think the two can be separated. |
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Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 20389
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Re: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | MissPickwickian wrote: | | was a casserole ideology--"let's throw everything in a pot and see how many people we can kill!" |
the US is falling quickly into that path. right now we have the social conservatism with the entitlement of socialism and a little bit of racism against anyone of persian or arabian descent.
the difference is that the true superiority part of the equation is kept only to the top. it's a core principle of neo-conservatism...lie to the public because what you're doing is for the greater good and create black and white high contrast imagery to help create a motivated nationalistic public.
irving kristol, ironically enough, has put together all the key structures of nazism into a new package and that combined with the baby boomer's inflated sense of entitlement (the most spoiled generation because "the greatest generation" couldn't raise their kids) and we continue to move ever closer to the evils of the nazis. already, the liars feel justified in torturing people and the people are so brainwashed into nationalism that they justify it to themselves and consider those who are being tortured to be less than human and less deserving of humane treatment.
the death camps probably have been in place for a while now. |
I think I agree with you. The only reason it's more difficult now than it was a year ago is because Jerry Falwell is dead.
_________________
When you need something, that's a responsibility, that only an adult...of my maturity...Bunnies!!!
~Meatwad, Aqua Teen Hunger Force |
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Delirium
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 589
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm so sorry that you had to see Expelled. You have my deepest sympathies.
_________________
Insert witty quote here. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Delirium wrote: | | I'm so sorry that you had to see Expelled. You have my deepest sympathies. |
What is so vile about Expelled? Haven't seen yet and am curious about these vitriolic comments. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Re: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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[quote="Tim_Tex"] | skafather84 wrote: | | MissPickwickian wrote: | | was a casserole ideology--"let's throw everything in a pot and see how many people we can kill!" |
the US is falling quickly into that path. right now we have the social conservatism with the entitlement of socialism and a little bit of racism against anyone of persian or arabian descent.
the difference is that the true superiority part of the equation is kept only to the top. it's a core principle of neo-conservatism...lie to the public because what you're doing is for the greater good and create black and white high contrast imagery to help create a motivated nationalistic public.
irving kristol, ironically enough, has put together all the key structures of nazism into a new package and that combined with the baby boomer's inflated sense of entitlement (the most spoiled generation because "the greatest generation" couldn't raise their kids) and we continue to move ever closer to the evils of the nazis. already, the liars feel justified in torturing people and the people are so brainwashed into nationalism that they justify it to themselves and consider those who are being tortured to be less than human and less deserving of humane treatment.
the death camps probably have been in place for a while now. |
If you had survived Auswitchz, my hyperbolizing friend, I doubt you be so eager to triviliaze the horrors of Nazism. Permitting & dismissing the evils of the current US administration is one thing, but to compare them to Nazis? That's going too far.
And what's this about the Greatest Generation being inept parents? You flatter yourself, sir! You claim knowledge of something you can't possibly know about, and in doing that you come off as an upstart. Do some self-analysis for a change. Turn that critical eye inward. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5689
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: |
How could you blame Hitler and not the movement he created? I don't think the two can be separated. |
You misunderstood me. I was saying that Nazism is effectively without any clear ideological cause because it was a mish mash. I did not say that Nazism wasn't evil at all or something to be blamed.
| slowmutant wrote: |
What is so vile about Expelled? Haven't seen yet and am curious about these vitriolic comments. |
Well, it is sort of a propaganda film, which is why people hate it. Sort of like why right-wingers hate Michael Moore films. It supports ID by trying to make it seem like an underdog rather than recognizing that ID has some issues of scientific validity, it also tries to associate Nazism to Evolution, and the film-makers were very dishonest in creating the film and even interviewed atheists under false pretenses in order to cut and paste the interview. |
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dawndeleon
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 730
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I a not all that fond of these types of documentaries. Any time i see one, i want to pick it apart and find out where half of their little sound bites are and what context they were originally used. I dont like deception to be used to make a point or misleading information either. There are some serious sh*% stirrers out there. I dont like either side of the political spectrum. the strongest position should be citizen.....meaning, thinking for yourself. I guess old age has made me jaded and unwilling to waste emotions on propaganda. I am kind of resistant to any 'think how i think' mentality. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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excuse me ...
The Nazi philosophy was founded on the idea of a master race, the Aryans, and that by deduction all other races were inferior and worthy of death. Nazism may havew been a mish-mash of influences, but Aryan Superiority and the deification of Hitler were very clear ideological causes.
And if as rebuttal you say you've read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you win!  |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dawndeleon wrote: | | I a not all that fond of these types of documentaries. Any time i see one, i want to pick it apart and find out where half of their little sound bites are and what context they were originally used. I dont like deception to be used to make a point or misleading information either. There are some serious sh*% stirrers out there. I dont like either side of the political spectrum. the strongest position should be citizen.....meaning, thinking for yourself. I guess old age has made me jaded and unwilling to waste emotions on propaganda. I am kind of resistant to any 'think how i think' mentality. |
If every citizen were self-directed in thought and motivation, we could not have any semblance of an ordered society. Every man for himself is the recipe for anarchy ... but not the good kind of anarchy. The kind of anarchy that facilitates our devolution into animals.
ARE WE NOT MEN?
'Fraid not. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6597
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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| Quote: | | If you actually read Nazi literature, you will see that the ideology was a sponge that soaked up every possible influence--science, religion, communism, nationalism, environmentalism, etc.--and turned it all really evil. |
Umm ... are you saying you've actually read Nazi literature?  |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5689
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | excuse me ...
The Nazi philosophy was founded on the idea of a master race, the Aryans, and that by deduction all other races were inferior and worthy of death. Nazism may havew been a mish-mash of influences, but Aryan Superiority and the deification of Hitler were very clear ideological causes.
And if as rebuttal you say you've read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you win! |
Well, the issue is that I don't think that Aryan authority was much of an ideology before the Nazis who created it through racism, nationalism, eugenics and etc. So, I think that really Aryan superiority cannot be separated from the Nazis. As well, I don't think that Hitler was deified so much as glorified, most Germans considered themselves Christian.
| slowmutant wrote: |
If every citizen were self-directed in thought and motivation, we could not have any semblance of an ordered society. Every man for himself is the recipe for anarchy ... but not the good kind of anarchy. The kind of anarchy that facilitates our devolution into animals.
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I disagree with that. I think an egoistic society would work, and would even accept the idea of tautological egoism. Really, a lot of modern theory is not based upon culture as the unifier so much as self-interest. |
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