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| Total Votes : 67 |
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 3250
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | excuse me ...
The Nazi philosophy was founded on the idea of a master race, the Aryans, and that by deduction all other races were inferior and worthy of death. Nazism may havew been a mish-mash of influences, but Aryan Superiority and the deification of Hitler were very clear ideological causes.
And if as rebuttal you say you've read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you win!  |
I've read the Mien Kampf. I don't agree with Hitler, but it doesn't mean I can't learn something objectively from reading it. I still think it was a horrible, sick ideology, and a terrible thing that Hitler and his NAZIs done. but yeah, I've read it. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3478
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Alice Miller made a case, in her books "For Your Own Good" and another one after that, for the prussian child-rearing practices of the previous 2-3 generations being responsible for the Holocaust, and for fascism in general even, because children were brought up to do what they were told, ask no questions, routinely/"ideally" had their will broken in childhood, were taught submission to the male parent, etc.
In addition Hitler suffered violent abuse by his father, which the traditional upbringing forbade him to experience as abusive. He was obliged to suppress his own feelings/subjective knowledge in order to "survive", which according to Miller resulted in "narcissisicm" with its dangerous lack of feeling for anyone at all.
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've read the Mien Kampf. I don't agree with Hitler, but it doesn't mean I can't learn something objectively from reading it. I still think it was a horrible, sick ideology, and a terrible thing that Hitler and his NAZIs done. but yeah, I've read it. |
Why does this not suprise me at all, snake? Next you'll be telling me about the snuff films you've watched and how they do not teach us anything. Or about how stealing candy from toddlers is not as fun as it looks.
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | Alice Miller made a case, in her books "For Your Own Good" and another one after that, for the prussian child-rearing practices of the previous 2-3 generations being responsible for the Holocaust, and for fascism in general even, because children were brought up to do what they were told, ask no questions, routinely/"ideally" had their will broken in childhood, were taught submission to the male parent, etc.
In addition Hitler suffered violent abuse by his father, which the traditional upbringing forbade him to experience as abusive. He was obliged to suppress his own feelings/subjective knowledge in order to "survive", which according to Miller resulted in "narcissisicm" with its dangerous lack of feeling for anyone at all.
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Blame it all on Hitler's daddy? His mommy? You are disgusting for making that suggestion.
God forbid the tyrants and demoniacs should ever own up to their actions.  
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3478
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | ouinon wrote: | | Alice Miller made a case, in her books "For Your Own Good" and another one after that, for the prussian child-rearing practices of the previous 2-3 generations being responsible for the Holocaust, and for fascism in general even, because children were brought up to do what they were told, ask no questions, routinely/"ideally" had their will broken in childhood, were taught submission to the male parent, etc. Hitler also suffered violent abuse by his father, which the traditional upbringing forbade him to experience as abusive. He was obliged to suppress his own feelings/subjective knowledge in order to "survive", which according to Miller resulted in "narcissisicm" with its dangerous lack of feeling for anyone at all. |
Blame it all on Hitler's daddy? His mommy? You are disgusting for making that suggestion. |
If you reread my post carefully you will see that I did not "blame" his "daddy or mommy", anymore than Alice Miller does. I thought this thread was discussing the possible origins for the Holocaust. And one very serious one lay in the system prevalent in the german/prussian empire during the previous 100 years of very strict, dehumanising, childrearing practices.
Nowhere do I suggest that Hitler and his henchmen and all the milllions of germans involved actively and passively, and the americans and italians and english and french and russians who amongst others did not take action , did not believe or did not care enough to do anything to stop the holocaust, were not responsible for the event.
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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White people are to blame
Catagorize them any way you want.
they still white.. know what Im sayin?
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | I've read the Mien Kampf. I don't agree with Hitler, but it doesn't mean I can't learn something objectively from reading it. I still think it was a horrible, sick ideology, and a terrible thing that Hitler and his NAZIs done. but yeah, I've read it. |
Why does this not suprise me at all, snake? Next you'll be telling me about the snuff films you've watched and how they do not teach us anything. Or about how stealing candy from toddlers is not as fun as it looks. |
What the f**k, I am being condemned for reading a book now? I thought I already cleared that I did not agree with or identify with the author. That doesn't mean I can't learn anything from it objectively. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3478
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | White people are to blame. Catagorize them any way you want, they still white.. know what Im sayin? |
It's as horrible whether done by black to black as in Rwanda, as when done white to white in Germany, or white to black/American Indian in the Americas.
I understand that Alice Miller was trying to explain how it could happen. Because it is so "mad". What explanation would work for Rwanda though? What could explain the "madness" of those thousands running through the streets for days killing?  Not strict and dehumanizing childrearing practices.
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something"
Last edited by ouinon on Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| snake321 wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | I've read the Mien Kampf. I don't agree with Hitler, but it doesn't mean I can't learn something objectively from reading it. I still think it was a horrible, sick ideology, and a terrible thing that Hitler and his NAZIs done. but yeah, I've read it. |
Why does this not suprise me at all, snake? Next you'll be telling me about the snuff films you've watched and how they do not teach us anything. Or about how stealing candy from toddlers is not as fun as it looks. |
What the f**k, I am being condemned for reading a book now? I thought I already cleared that I did not agree with or identify with the author. That doesn't mean I can't learn anything from it objectively. |
I've read tons of books where I've disagreed with the author, but I still got knowledge from it, rather it was objective or subjective. I've read everything from the bible to the koran to the budhist scriptures, to the satanic bible. Hell I'll even read Farakhan and he's totally racist against me. I tend to wanna study many points of view, even the most extreme and psychopathic ones. There's always **something** that can be learned or applied to helping understand today's situations **somewhere**.
I mean what better way to understand the psychology of corruption and psychopathy in our system than to study them directly? This is why I will listen to even the most extreme points of view, it does not mean i agree with them though.
Last edited by snake321 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | White people are to blame
Catagorize them any way you want.
they still white.. know what Im sayin? |
they still white?
Youse gots bad grammar. Who learned you how to reed and rite?
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I've read tons of books where I've disagreed with the author, but I still got knowledge from it, rather it was objective or subjective. I've read everything from the bible to the koran to the budhist scriptures, to the satanic bible. Hell I'll even read Farakhan and he's totally racist against me. I tend to wanna study many points of view, even the most extreme and psychopathic ones. There's always **something** that can be learned or applied to helping understand today's situations **somewhere**.
I mean what better way to understand the psychology of corruption and psychopathy in our system than to study them directly? This is why I will listen to even the most extreme points of view, it does not mean i agree with them though. |
Studying the vileness and evilness so closely is asking to be corrupted by it, offering yourself to it. After being arrested, the most heinous criminals always turn out be admirers of books written by some really ghoulish people.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6131
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: |
Studying the vileness and evilness so closely is asking to be corrupted by it, offering yourself to it. After being arrested, the most heinous criminals always turn out be admirers of books written by some really ghoulish people. |
And not studying it is asking to be ignorant of it. Neither seems good to me. Frankly, I would bet that with most of those individuals though, the causal chain is the other way around, they read the books in pursuit of their own nature rather than the book necessarily changing that nature. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, and that's why it worries me when a guy talks about reading Mein Kampf as if it were a Book of the Month selection. Now there's the kind of reader who might seek out the diaries of imprisoned serial killers. Ignorance of certain things can actually be good for you.
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5176
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: "_______ is responsible for the Holocaust!" |
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| slowmutant wrote: | If you had survived Auswitchz, my hyperbolizing friend, I doubt you be so eager to triviliaze the horrors of Nazism. Permitting & dismissing the evils of the current US administration is one thing, but to compare them to Nazis? That's going too far.
And what's this about the Greatest Generation being inept parents? You flatter yourself, sir! You claim knowledge of something you can't possibly know about, and in doing that you come off as an upstart. Do some self-analysis for a change. Turn that critical eye inward. |
i'm not trivializing it, i'm showing it respect by pointing out that the same key societal necessities are quickly coming in place. it won't be people of jewish descent this time, though. i mean that's kinda obvious. it'd be a disrespect to those who died and suffered the loss of loved ones for me to be quiet when such mechanisms are already moving forward. even in your response, you're a part of it. "the holocaust was a holy day that can never happen again! we must never speak of it or dare imply that it could happen again!!" you want trivialization?
^"hi i'm an iraq who was tortured to death by american soldiers! my dead and torture is entirely a trivialization of the holocaust because jews are real people and i'm not even human!"
^"no holocaust here! just killin' terrorists! oh...we never got any information out of him before he died but we're sure he was a terrorist, he was even talking about allah!!!"
and the greatest generation were inept parents. they created the generation who basically has had the largest sense of entitlement of any generation of americans. and why? because the greatest generation were the greatest and so their kids, of course, had to have the best! now those kids are spoiled parents who don't give a sh** about their kids because they're worried about their own entitlements still rather than guaranteeing a positive move towards the next generation. it's an arrogance that started with the WWII "greatest generation" and it's fed into the baby boomer "selfish generation" which is now leading into the generation x "watch tv and shut up generation". which is the passive generation of cattle raised by the most selfish generation who instead of actually giving up time with their kids, popped 'em down in front of the tv instead and now you have the braindead masses who know every line of the latest popular mtv show but couldn't tell you who was secretary of state if there was a loaded gun put to their head.
the baby boomers are, by far, the greediest, most amoral generation of the basic 3 generations that are mostly around right now. |
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | I've read tons of books where I've disagreed with the author, but I still got knowledge from it, rather it was objective or subjective. I've read everything from the bible to the koran to the budhist scriptures, to the satanic bible. Hell I'll even read Farakhan and he's totally racist against me. I tend to wanna study many points of view, even the most extreme and psychopathic ones. There's always **something** that can be learned or applied to helping understand today's situations **somewhere**.
I mean what better way to understand the psychology of corruption and psychopathy in our system than to study them directly? This is why I will listen to even the most extreme points of view, it does not mean i agree with them though. |
Studying the vileness and evilness so closely is asking to be corrupted by it, offering yourself to it. After being arrested, the most heinous criminals always turn out be admirers of books written by some really ghoulish people. |
Only weak minded people like you or other sheep would become corrupted by it. Some people are more resistant to propaganda than others. The fact that I can prove you wrong, I can read it, and still I understand Hitler and NAZIs were evil. Am I defending them (Hitler/nazis)? No, I'm not, so obviously it hasn't corrupted me. It's just helped me to see it happening again in front of my face (as have many other sources).
As I stated, just because I read a goddamn book does not mean I f***ing agree with the author. That's what retarded f***ing sheep like YOU do, only read books they agree with, only study reference materials from one or two points of view. Do you understand I am more analytical and intelligent than you are?
Last edited by snake321 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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