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Danielismyname
Alone around people
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6033
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: Saw Rain Man |
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And a question for those who think he's doesn't have HFA, why?
Using me as an example: Apart from him trying to talk to people which shows the verbal difficulties, and the more splintered cognitive pattern (savant), he's no different to me in how he manifests; swaying while standing, needing a routine and ritual for nearly everything, his funny postures, lack of eye contact, lack of emotional inflection, stereotyped speech; what he can and cannot do (I've only driven on the driveway [and I don't think I'll go further], I'm sure I'd meltdown at an airport, I'd be in government housing if it wasn't for my mother and her home, etcetera). He even shows affection how I do, i.e., putting his forehead on people.
My mother agreed with such too. |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 4201
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Because he can't live a normal life and he has to be in an institution.
Look at Temple, she is an example of HFA. She isn't anywhere like Rain Man. She can take care of herself without any assistance. She doesn't need supervision. |
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Danielismyname
Alone around people
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6033
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, I have a lovely outcome study that says the majority of people with "HFA" don't live a normal life, and nearly all live at home, in government housing [with staff assistance] or an institution.
Temple Grandin may be one of the rare few that can do more than the majority of those with HFA. |
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Reodor_Felgen
Counting down till Castro bites the dust
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 1633
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Danielismyname
Alone around people
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6033
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, I had a disciple of Attwood tell me that those two have AS (which includes having a speech delay); she said I have the same, but you know.
If his savant abilities push his overall IQ up, he has "HFA" (as it's stated in the movie); what he can and can't do seems to fit with the overall picture of "HFA", how he presents is similar to me, albeit he can actually talk to people he doesn't know; I'm better at talking to those I know, so that's a tossup over who is "better". |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 4201
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: |
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I learned what LFA was on youtube. I used to think LFA was autistic people with MR but no I was wrong, they have normal IQs but they just have difficulty time taking care of themselves so they need assistance. I think incontinence is common in LFA.
Amanda Baggs is an example and Droopy. Not the droopy on here, the other Droopy who was banned on AFF. But sadly I don't have the link to her blog. But they both have posted youtube videos of themselves and that's how I learned about them. |
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Reodor_Felgen
Counting down till Castro bites the dust
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 1633
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Danielismyname wrote: | For what it's worth, I had a disciple of Attwood tell me that those two have AS (which includes having a speech delay); she said I have the same, but you know.
If his savant abilities push his overall IQ up, he has "HFA" (as it's stated in the movie); what he can and can't do seems to fit with the overall picture of "HFA", how he presents is similar to me, albeit he can actually talk to people he doesn't know; I'm better at talking to those I know, so that's a tossup over who is "better". |
According to Wikipedia, Temple Grandin is HFA. Einstein didn't say a word before he was 3,5 years old, didn't speak in sentences before he started going to school (maybe later) and had a severe echolalia in his childhood. He also had dyslexia and dyscalculia (common amoung aspies as well).
In 50% of all cases, there's a slight speech delay in children with Asperger's as well, but it's not nearly as significant as Einstein's or Grandin's speech delay.
Even LFAs can have a normal, or even high IQs, but they won't do good in tests because these tests are very limited.
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WP doesn't have a working first amendment.
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 4201
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| I had a speech delay but it was severe. I didn't start speaking till was 5 but my mother said I was 4 but in the videos I was quiet and hardly said anything but when I was five I was talking but I was hard to understand, at six I was speaking correctly. |
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Danielismyname
Alone around people
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 6033
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Professor Attwood will tell you that AS and HFA are similar, that's why the psycho told me those two had AS. I didn't want to bring it up too much as I'm sure no one here would agree that Rain Man has AS (barring a few).
Researchers coined the "HFA" and "LFA" terms, and it was based on an IQ threshold. Its official terminology hasn't changed, i.e., autistic disorder with an Axis-II diagnosis of mental retardation equates to "LFA", without MR equates to HFA.
As far as I can see, Rain Man appears to have HFA, just with a more splintered cognitive pattern than some people who appear more "normal", which is common for autistic disorder.
I cannot make food, I won't eat it if my mother doesn't prepare it, I wear the same clothes, I don't do many things for I'm simply afraid; I'm diagnosed with "HFA", and I'm similar to Rain Man apart from the echolalia. |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2836
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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What I have seen here, is normal intelligence. There is some extra power from focus, we are different in person. People ask me how to win the lottery.
I am more verbal, but it is like talking to a wall. Communication is something else. I act well, but get over as much as if I were acting a chicken in the chicken yard.
I see it as a lack of frontal lobe activity, they live there, we speak from what they would call the sub concious. They have one, ignore it, and we awaken it, which they find uncomfortable, like we could see their deepest thoughts.
Then we develop our own set of filters, using little bits that worked. I cannot talk to people, but I can deal with them. My view is all Sergents are Aspies. People may not come to our way of thinking, but they can be made to do as they are told.
By the social model the Sergent should do what the Squad wants.
I see an internal conflict caused by not expressing how wrong the world is, which manifests as motions and movements. The Sergent is all routine and ritual, wears the same thing every day, has one strerotyped speech, What do you think you are doing eye balling me? Lack of eye contact is demanded. He walks like a man with a steel bar for a spine. He usually hates civilians, and cannot function in their world.
Temple is assertive, some say rude, uncaring, and that is their problem to get over.
The assertive ones have a class of their own. Social behavior is a means of undermining dominence. They pretend to be friendly, they are trying to destroy you, and when called on it, they flee.
You are not going to beat me up with your mouth, so lets get to it. I call, shows they are holding no cards, which is why they play the social.
Allowed to continue they will pick you to pieces. Social is making everyone weak, so the weak feel better. It is normal to not want to fight with everyone, and that is what they exploit.
Who are you and why should I care? What is in it for me to put up with you? |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4948
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Saw Rain Man |
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| Danielismyname wrote: | And a question for those who think he's doesn't have HFA, why?
Using me as an example: Apart from him trying to talk to people which shows the verbal difficulties, and the more splintered cognitive pattern (savant), he's no different to me in how he manifests; swaying while standing, needing a routine and ritual for nearly everything, his funny postures, lack of eye contact, lack of emotional inflection, stereotyped speech; what he can and cannot do (I've only driven on the driveway [and I don't think I'll go further], I'm sure I'd meltdown at an airport, I'd be in government housing if it wasn't for my mother and her home, etcetera). He even shows affection how I do, i.e., putting his forehead on people.
My mother agreed with such too. |
YEP, HATE TO SAY IT DANIEL..... I have a step brother that is MR(HFA means NOT retarded), and HE(my step brother) is a bit above raymond in rain man(As far as IQ and self help)! He can't really read and, like raymond, can't really work with money, but he DOES understand the concept(raymond didn't), communicates better, and lives a more normal life.
The swaying, SOME routines, rituals, postures, lack of eye contact, lack of emotional inflection, stereotyped speech, driving, meltdowns, and affection have NOTHING to do with determining if you are LFA, MFA, HFA, or AS!!!! The reason why he is MFA or lower is because he couldn't really communicate(Even non verbal people here communicate better!), had little concept of the world, no real self help skills. In other words, he couldn't function at a high level.
I don't know why you put yourself with him though. You might look the same way he does in every way, but you have shown here you would rank higher than he does.
BTW the inspiration for the character is better also, but he isn't really autistic.
What makes you think the raymond character has a high IQ? He comes across as NOT being bright. GRANTED, the ability to store information may make him APPEAR that way. He can even recall it in context, which seems great, but even computers can do that. Even when he counts cards, he lets you know he doesn't know why, and that he doesn't understand why it is frowned upon. |
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Irisrises
Raven
Joined: Oct 10, 2007
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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It's been a long time since I saw Rain Man, so correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember he was diagnosed as a toddler/baby and spent his life in an institution. You, from what I understand, completed school, wanted to join the military/become a police officer, then got diagnosed at 25. How are you and him on the same level of functioning?
Level of awareness if nothing else would be miles apart, even if he was a real person instead of a fictional character created to make a point in a movie. |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4948
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Irisrises wrote: | It's been a long time since I saw Rain Man, so correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember he was diagnosed as a toddler/baby and spent his life in an institution. You, from what I understand, completed school, wanted to join the military/become a police officer, then got diagnosed at 25. How are you and him on the same level of functioning?
Level of awareness if nothing else would be miles apart, even if he was a real person instead of a fictional character created to make a point in a movie. |
He didn't spend his ENTIRE life in an institution. His brother spoke earlier about "the rainman", playing around, etc.... So you figure that he probably saw his brother as more than a toddler around the time that he, himself, was perhaps 3-5.(Because he was old enough to remember him as another person, etc... but so young that he didn't get the name right and viewed him as little more than a dream.) Of course, by the time he was 6 or so, raymond was gone for good.
Still, I agree with you. Daniel is certainly ahead of him in normal respects.
BTW Daniel,
When I started driving a car, I went on the street because I PUSHED myself. I had hesitation at every step, but I PUSHED! And YOU stay in the parkinglot because of hesitation. That IS a sign of intelligence! You are determining the risk/reward ratio, and erring on the side of safety. I STILL do that! I may go a long way if I determine it is safer. Raymond did it simply because he was TOLD to. |
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agmoie
Supporting Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Posts: 250
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Just cause Ray Babbit was institutionalized does not mean he could not look after himself.Up til the 80s which is when the movie was made many AS and Autistic people including HFA were imprisoned in `Institutions` because of societal prejudice and ignorance.Many WP members would have been institionalized if they had been born a couple of decades before they actually were.Look beyond the obvious.
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Asperger's is not a disease
http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2898
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Saw Rain Man |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: |
The swaying, SOME routines, rituals, postures, lack of eye contact, lack of emotional inflection, stereotyped speech, driving, meltdowns, and affection have NOTHING to do with determining if you are LFA, MFA, HFA, or AS!!!! |
That's how professional here determine LFA, HFA and AS. (No MFA here as far as I know.)
More repetitive movement = more lf.
More routines = more lf.
And so on.
As a golden rule:
the more average you appear at moment XY when professor YZ views you, the more hf you are labelled to be.
Now obviously, that approach is, when the very label means to limit or to demand of you, questionable.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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