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jaydog
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 530
Location: california
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 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: lol |
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Thomas1138, lol i'm not complaining i'm just stating that there was problems with the tests, i'm not saying its right or wrong but i believe they need to revise the test and make sure everyone who takes it actually was taught the material. also high school is not a job career or doctors office, so comparing it to doctors license or whatever doesn't really make since, since to become a doctor you have to had way more then a high school diploma, i've have done pretty well in my life, had good jobs and such even with only a high school diploma.
I pretty much am stuck but i have thought about doing online college and go for ph.D in physcology. But i don't really know if I really want to do that as not sure if thats the career route i want to go, i'm 28 yrs old and on permanent disability. So I don't even know what i'm gonna do with my life, cause based on my diagnoses theres a really rare chance of being able to work again anymore. thanks to back pain and spinal problems, as well as the mental health problems i have. well I made $18 an hour in the grocery industry in the past for 4 years, I think thats pretty good pay for just a high school diploma, of course they made changes and now the grocery industry doesn't pay that much anymore. Anyway i'm not saying having a test to graduate in high school isn't bad but the no child left behind law as it is right now is screwed up.. |
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Thomas1138
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Then you fix the test. You don't get rid of it. If teachers spend 6 hours a week teaching test-taking skills instead of actually, y'know, preparing their students for the test make them stop that too. If students aren't being taught subjects which the state deems necessary for passing, by God teach it to them.
| Quote: | | also high school is not a job career or doctors office, so comparing it to doctors license or whatever doesn't really make since |
Actually it makes perfect sense. If you want a diploma, you should need to earn it. And earning it should take more than having your butt in a seat for 13 years. There are way too many students with high school diplomas without the skills to even be successful in middle school, nevermind being prepared for college without prep courses (which should be a minimum standard for graduation). And speaking of college, grade inflation is so bad that they seem to be going pretty much the same way. |
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kit000003
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 04, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 395
Location: Pensacola, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomas1138 wrote: | Then you fix the test. You don't get rid of it. If teachers spend 6 hours a week teaching test-taking skills instead of actually, y'know, preparing their students for the test make them stop that too. If students aren't being taught subjects which the state deems necessary for passing, by God teach it to them.
| Quote: | | also high school is not a job career or doctors office, so comparing it to doctors license or whatever doesn't really make since |
Actually it makes perfect sense. If you want a diploma, you should need to earn it. And earning it should take more than having your butt in a seat for 13 years. There are way too many students with high school diplomas without the skills to even be successful in middle school, nevermind being prepared for college without prep courses (which should be a minimum standard for graduation). And speaking of college, grade inflation is so bad that they seem to be going pretty much the same way. |
OK speaking for myself.... I wasn't actually complaining about having to take a test to graduate..... I wouldn't have minded keeping the HighSchoolCompTest.... I got 1410 on my SAT and 32 on my ACT... those are the tests that should count toward graduation...... I was complaining about the FCAT and what the NCLB Act did to our school system.....
your profile says you are 29... therefore you weren't in k-12 school anymore when this came out.... I got to see the system before and the system after... and let me tell you... it shifted from me learning new things 5 days a week to me learning new things 4 days a week.... then going back to remedial training and test training to "learn" the FCAT on the 5th day.... they had preview copies and old copies of the FCAT that they made us take and retake ... waste of my time.... It was mandated statewide that we had these training days too.
A florida school's state funding is based off of the grade they get on the FCAT... the voucher system they have in place allows a student in a school with a C level for more than 2 or 3yrs to switch to another public school with an A rating or a private school on the state's dime. Which means, if a good student is in a bad school... and the parent decides they want them out.... the school gets worse... and worse... and less funding... and less funding.... until the school closes... or they have to bus students out
I remember in 3rd grade we had a kid that should have been in 5th grade because he got held back twice.... he moved up to fourth grade that year... i remember how proud and happy his mom was the next year.... I also remember high school... (two different school districts) the kids that got placed in remedial english because they couldn't form a sentence, and the kids that got placed in remedial math because they couldn't add. Things like that shouldn't happen.
NCLB is getting translated into... we can't hold them back.... it is wrong and needs redone |
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Maxrebo
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 16
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Hey thomas before you open your rude mouth and start flaming people why dont understand because back in your day any old idiot could pass high school even if they couldn't read. But come down to rhode island where if you have aspergers you get zilch in terms of help with difficult subjects that and for my graduting year requirements are ridiculous and no I have to do more then a test and no child left behind is keeping all kids back even when they should graduate because their ready so dont you open your mouth and flame others because you are rude and like to be little another's plight. Were do you go off say that to him no I am not flaming you I just thought this needed to be said.
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Everythings the same I am still cant sleep and still hate school. |
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Thomas1138
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was complaining about the FCAT and what the NCLB Act did to our school system..... |
The FCAT also predates NCLB.
| Quote: | | your profile says you are 29... therefore you weren't in k-12 school anymore when this came out.... |
Actually I wanted to be a teacher once upon a time, so I am familiar with the FCAT. For the record, I think it's a pretty ****ty test and we can get a better one for less money.
| Quote: | | and let me tell you... it shifted from me learning new things 5 days a week to me learning new things 4 days a week.... then going back to remedial training and test training to "learn" the FCAT on the 5th day.... they had preview copies and old copies of the FCAT that they made us take and retake ... waste of my time.... It was mandated statewide that we had these training days too. |
A waste of time and something I have already said should be completely done away with.
You're wrong about it being mandated though (at the level you're speaking of anyway). That had to be either a school or district mandate.
| Quote: | | the voucher system they have in place allows a student in a school with a C level for more than 2 or 3yrs to switch to another public school with an A rating or a private school on the state's dime. Which means, if a good student is in a bad school... and the parent decides they want them out.... the school gets worse... and worse... and less funding... and less funding.... until the school closes... or they have to bus students out |
First, the voucher system was unconsciounably declared unconstitutional by Florida's Supreme Court and thousands of kids were forced to return to subpar schools. I consider this child abuse.
Second, I believe that the purpose of the education system is to teach and the health of the institution itself is irrelevant. Are you actually using the closing down of a bad school (really that only happens with charter schools) as a negative? I can't think of anything more positive that the destruction of an institution that ruins the lives of its students by utterly failing in its primary purpose.
Vouchers are good. Siding with the education system over the students is bad.
| Quote: | | Hey thomas before you open your rude mouth and start flaming people |
You're the only person flaming other people here.
| Quote: | | But come down to rhode island where if you have aspergers you get zilch in terms of help with difficult subjects |
That's unfortunate, but not a reason to lower the value of a diploma.
| Quote: | | and no child left behind is keeping all kids back even when they should graduate because their ready |
First of all, NCLB doesn't have any graduation requirements (this is starting to sound like a PATRIOT Act discussion where I keep having to repeat that the bill has nothing to do with 90% of the things it's accused of). This is, again, a state thing.
Second, if students can't pass the requirements, they don't get a diploma. It's a fair system. |
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ddrapayo
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The fact is that the stuff taught on the test has no bearing in the real world (i.e. workforce). Is anyone going to need to remember strings of unrelated, unimportant data for their jobs? Most likely not. but that's what the tests want us to do. What use does imaginary numbers have in the real world? None! What about polar bonds? Unless you want to be a scientist, none! And if you do want to be a chemist, that's fine, then you can learn about it in chemistry in college or wherever! But don't subject students to it when they should be leaning how to think! |
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LostInEmulation
Penguin
Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 1275
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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@Thomas1138: Why should it be a test at all? You tell much about why it is important why people need to fullfill the requirements, but wouldn't it be advantageous to use other ways to check? There are very few situations where a test mimics real life (doctors often need to decide quickly so it is okay there). In a foreign language class you could for example test each person individually by engaging in a dialog with him/her about a topic, in the sciences, long term projects with much own work come to mind.
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I am no native speaker. Please contact me, if I made grammatical mistakes in the posting above.
GENERATION 20: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. |
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Thomas1138
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But don't subject students to it when they should be leaning how to think! |
Well that's an interesting concept. Teach students how to think, but don't expose them to any subjects that would cause them to think.
Just about any subject teaches students how to think, even "worthless" subjects like science.
I'll let you in on a little secret, I made a mistake and picked the wrong major twice in college. I've got tons of courses where I learned things that I'd never use in real life, except, shockingly, I use them quite frequently. You wouldn't think it, but those accounting courses I took back when I thought college was all about finding a job have come in handy. Now, I've never had to balance a company's accounts or use the equation assets = liabilities + shareholder's equity, but I use dozens of the concepts learned in those classes all the time in my everyday life in deciding how to spend my time, whether to abandon a project, is something worth the risk.
I was once an education major. I don't have any desire to teach anymore, except I enjoy tutoring my fellow classmates and use it for social purposes, can design a presentation instanstly, and the skills I developed to learn a subject, master it, and teach it in 20 minutes (you'd be surprised) have done wonders to improve the speed at which I absorb new subjects.
The thought process it takes to understand mathematics and science both require their own form of plasticity. Tossing them aside as mindless tells me that you haven't given the subjects as much thought as you probably should.
| Quote: | | @Thomas1138: Why should it be a test at all? You tell much about why it is important why people need to fullfill the requirements, but wouldn't it be advantageous to use other ways to check? There are very few situations where a test mimics real life (doctors often need to decide quickly so it is okay there). In a foreign language class you could for example test each person individually by engaging in a dialog with him/her about a topic, in the sciences, long term projects with much own work come to mind. |
There are teachers there to fulfill that need, and they do their jobs by assigning grades to the students. The problem is, every teacher is different. In one classroom you can have Mr. Foltz who can't stand giving Fs to his students and will assign tons of busy work coloring in worksheets for extra credit so that his students don't fail. Across the hall is old-school Mr. Huck who is a real taskmaster bastard and makes his students know the material backwards and forwards and has no problem giving half the class Fs if they don't meet his standards.
Now there are students in Mr. Foltz's class that have As and don't know jack while Mr. Huck's C students have demonstrated a solid working foundation and can confidently perform above 90% of the students in the state.
How do you measure which students have mastered the material? Well, the subjective grades can't be used because two teachers with completely separate ideas of the value of those grades measured the students. An objective test though...that would measure whether the actual material was mastered. |
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A350XWB
Raven
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| For me, if I have to teach at an university level (due to scientific needs), failure = expulsion, because failure, in the real world, does not forgive. If you fail even one exam, a student is expelled from the course. |
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Maxrebo
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 16
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I am not saying to lower the value of the dipolma but should you have you do somthing rediculous to graduate thats why I plan to drop out next year because I turn 16 this july because I cant wait to end 10 school years of misery.But they should have such rediculouse requriemnt to get out of high school so now I am going to go for my GED because I have no chance with the current requirements they dont even give leway only the severe and profound have a chance because I can tallk they consider me normal and that I have no problems for those that work imagine your at work and your worked here for 8 years on the first day if your ninth year they tell you now have to work without pay and you cant quit and in order to able to go home you have do a portfoilo of your best work but you cant put just anything in it it has to be portfolio worthy and those assingments are ridicoulously hard even for your best subject.Then you gotta get a number of units then your portfolio has to be approved by a council and if you dont succeed your fate is decided whether or not you will get a decent job or live in a crapshack and work at a mcdonalds. I hope this helps people understand why I hate NCLB.It ruined my future and high school even more for me.
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Everythings the same I am still cant sleep and still hate school. |
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Thomas1138
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, yes, you're saying the value of the diploma should be lowered.
Second, NCLB does not mandate portfolios. That is either a state, district, or school requirement.
Third, no coursework in high school is going to ruin your future.
Fourth, reading your posts I think it's safe to say that you're no where near ready to graduate from high school. You seriously need to improve your writing skills. |
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kit000003
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 04, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 395
Location: Pensacola, FL
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've got to agree with thomas on that last one. Dropping out is the only way to truly fail high school. Even with a GED. (hey man, you know that is a test, right?)
Just because a school gets an average of a C doesn't mean it is all around bad, it means it is average. That is what the grade C is supposed to mean, average. You have good teachers and bad teachers combined with good students and bad students. When you start taking away the good students, what gets left is the bad ones.
Even good teachers need good students in order to make good schools. |
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A350XWB
Raven
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| C means the average in a five or six-letter system, but I had a four-letter system in elemenatry school, and in a standard, well-calibrated four-letter system, B is the average. |
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kit000003
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 04, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 395
Location: Pensacola, FL
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| A350XWB wrote: | | C means the average in a five or six-letter system, but I had a four-letter system in elemenatry school, and in a standard, well-calibrated four-letter system, B is the average. |
good point. |
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Maxrebo
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 16
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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No I know I not ready to gradute now I am only a sophmore. Yes I have always have had these righting issues. Yes the state mandates this messed graduation requirement I am just saying should the requirement be the same for a normal persib as their are with someone with issues no its bad enough the school gives little or now help and everything goes by way to fast because just when you understand one thing you class is already moving on to a new math skill it ridculous. No droping out does not do that for some its the only option if the current system doesn;t want anyone to graduatee because I know it may be hard for you to understand since this situation did not happen to you but its ridiulous espescially were you saw getting out of high school right their then this crap happens. also kids from across my state went to the state government and complained and its been heavily critziesed by senior teacherss and other offical and faluty saying it is a broken system and it will never work.
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Everythings the same I am still cant sleep and still hate school. |
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