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Legato
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 423
Location: Utah, USA
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 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | that's not entirely true. the mainstream sect of mormonism doesn't practice polygamy but there are many sects that still do.
but what about the magic underwear? |
See previous post for magical underwear answer. I'm not here to pass judgement or have an opinion, I'm here to present fact.
Mainstream Mormonism is the only mormonism that exists. There is only one form of mormonism. Anyone who does not follow the only form of mormonism is not a part of mormonism. Those who have broken off to form other sects are shunned and they DO NOT follow mormon teachings, they follow their own - as they have proven before (see Polygamist Green, group in Arizona, recent group in Texas). These people have no connection with mormonism except their name says FLDS. That's it.
Again, I'm not mormon, but I defend them because to wrongfully and inaccurately attack them is ignorance.
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 4858
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Legato
You defend Mormons though are you don't claim to be Mormon.
Yet you attack other groups, the "ignorance" of it be damned.
Why the Mormon apologism for from a non-Mormon? |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1929
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Legato
You defend Mormons though are you don't claim to be Mormon.
Yet you attack other groups, the "ignorance" of it be damned.
Why the Mormon apologism for from a non-Mormon? |
I guess he wants more than one wife and to wear magic underwear. |
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matrix
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 532
Location: between glitches
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Solomon IN THE BIBLE was so much of a polygamist that I called him Snoop Dogg.
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 4858
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| In cultures other than ours, the practise of polygamy is integral to that culture. The rich Arab sheiks had their harems, but we can only speculate how these households were like. Wait a minute, ws it that ancient kings and princes had many wives or many concubines? Big difference between a wife and a concubine. Maybe the Mormom men's many wives are ritualized concubines. |
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Legato
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 423
Location: Utah, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Legato
You defend Mormons though are you don't claim to be Mormon.
Yet you attack other groups, the "ignorance" of it be damned.
Why the Mormon apologism for from a non-Mormon? |
I never attacked any group of people. I stated that to call mormons polygamists is inaccurate and ignorant because of the facts I provided, and the reality of the situation.
I defend Mormons because they are looked down upon for something that isn't true - and people frequently and stupidly refer to them as polygamists even though they haven't been for over a century.
If you want to ridicule their magic underwear or weird cultish practices then be my guest, because those are reasons based in fact and not fiction.
My personal opinion:
Even though I have a very low opinion of their practices and beliefs myself, I defend them in this instance because it is the right thing to do. People are branding them something they're not, which is ignorant.
I defend them for much the same reason I defended VenomFangX's youtube account and petitioned for it to be reinstated. Even though I despise that liar and plagiarist and his stupidity, I defended him too. The purpose of debate is to convert your opponent, not to silence him forcefully. VenomFangX was banned for the wrong reasons, and I helped get him back so we could continue to tear each other apart. Idiots like him are what make youtube great 
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sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Legato wrote: | | These people have no connection with mormonism except their name says FLDS. |
That's not quite true. Their church was founded by the same man (Joseph Smith), and had the same early leaders (Brigham Young et.all), and they use the same book (The Book of Mormon). In addition, some of them start out as LDS before they convert to FLDS. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1301
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Legato, your YouTube videos prove nothing beyond your own views. There are compounds in the desert where so-called prophets run their sex-cults. That is all I want to know about FLDS. Haven't you been watching CNN? |
You believe CNN? |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4405
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Legato, your YouTube videos prove nothing beyond your own views. There are compounds in the desert where so-called prophets run their sex-cults. That is all I want to know about FLDS. Haven't you been watching CNN? |
sex isn't the problem. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1301
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Legato, your YouTube videos prove nothing beyond your own views. There are compounds in the desert where so-called prophets run their sex-cults. That is all I want to know about FLDS. Haven't you been watching CNN? |
sex isn't the problem. |
. . .
that's very vague. |
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Legato
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 423
Location: Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| sojournertruth wrote: | | That's not quite true. Their church was founded by the same man (Joseph Smith), and had the same early leaders (Brigham Young et.all), and they use the same book (The Book of Mormon). In addition, some of them start out as LDS before they convert to FLDS. |
Joseph Smith did not found the FLDS church, and Brigham Young had no part in it either, they were long before the Manifesto.
The FLDS church was founded after the Second Manifesto. WIKIPEDIA WARNING: "The FLDS Church emerged in the 1930s when its founding members left The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The split occurred largely because of the LDS Church's renunciation of polygamy and its decision to excommunicate practitioners of plural marriage."
They may use the same book, but I heard (from Mormons, this is not verified) that it was doctored and changed, which nullifies it in the eyes of the LDS church, and is therefore no longer the same book.
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Escuerd
Blue Jay
Joined: May 02, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Legato wrote: |
Joseph Smith did not found the FLDS church, and Brigham Young had no part in it either, they were long before the Manifesto.
The FLDS church was founded after the Second Manifesto. WIKIPEDIA WARNING: "The FLDS Church emerged in the 1930s when its founding members left The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The split occurred largely because of the LDS Church's renunciation of polygamy and its decision to excommunicate practitioners of plural marriage."
They may use the same book, but I heard (from Mormons, this is not verified) that it was doctored and changed, which nullifies it in the eyes of the LDS church, and is therefore no longer the same book. |
Shouldn't both the LDS and FLDS churches both be considered descendants of the church that Joseph Smith founded? I don't actually know if this is the case with FLDS (thought their name suggests it), but if they're like most Christian movements, they probably see themselves as the "true" followers of Smith's and Jesus' teachings (for other Christian sects leave Smith off).
I'm sure both churches have evolved a bit since they split. Why should only one be identified as the one Smith founded? To me they both seem like descendants of the same one, even if one has a much larger following. |
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Legato
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Age: 21
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Location: Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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You do make a good point. Where I was coming from is the fact that the LDS church is the one Joseph Smith formed, and when the polygamists were excommunicated at the command of the church president, they were just like "screw you" and formed the FLDS church. So really, the LDS church is descended from the same, whereas the FLDS church broke off and formed their own.
Kind of like a royal bloodline I suppose. When a prince disowns his royal family to go join another faction for example, he is considered no longer a part of the royal bloodline, even though he technically has royal blood. Then that prince has children and mingles with this other blood, while the true bloodline stays strong. That's how Mormons see themselves anyway I think.
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 4858
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Legato, that is a damned good explanation!  |
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Legato
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 423
Location: Utah, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've been playing too much Medieval 2 Total War haha
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