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frankcritic
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 145
Location: United States, AR
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Misanthropic Outsider Fictional Characters |
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As an aspie, I find it interesting that so many of us embrace darker types of fictional characters. I look down a list of posts in a thread and who do I see? Batman (myself), House, Sweeney Todd, Edward Scissorhands, Erik the Phantom, and so on. So I thought I'd start up a thread on the subject of why aspies may be attracted to darker fictional characters. I see it as an allegory of being a permanent outsider for whatever reason. There are basically two approaches to this outsider status situation for a fictional character. Attempt to reconcile or hate normal society and operate outside of it, if not actively attacking it. NTs represent normal society here, of course. I'll kick things off with three examples of reconcilers and misanthropes of this type.
Reconcilers:
Batman: Yes, he's an outsider even among heroes and a plenty dark one. One thing is not, however, is a misanthrope. Far from hating the ordinary people of Gotham, he loves and protects them. Besides this, Bruce Wayne must operate, and does flawlessly, as a completely normal man. Hard to run a giant corporation as an obvious aspie, after all.
Don Quixote De La Mancha: Definitely an outsider. You can't get much more outside the mainstream than endless optimism to the point of delusions that windmills are giants and barmaids are princesses. However, he is also dark in his own way. I speak here of Man of La Mancha's Quixote, I should stress. Never read Cervantes' novel. Anyway, he is dark because he really DOES live in a bleak and unbearable world. Striving to do good, though scorned and covered with scars, is darkly poetic. A martyr's defense of good and optimism is always bleak, after all.
Quasimodo: Perhaps the ultimate outsider. Born deformed and raised in a state of shame and neglect. By daring to love Esmerelda, to the point of saving her and avenging her death, he reaches out to normal society in a vary concrete way. That his attempts to reconcile with normal society fail badly do not make him any less sincere in them.
Misanthropes:
Erik the Phantom: I should note that my familiarity with the story is heavily influenced by the musical, I do know the original story. Anyway, Erik may seem like Quasimodo at first glance, but he is very different. He does not reach out to Christine out of real love, but out of obsession with her, a mistake many aspies make as well. Further he is murderous, willing to terrorize the opera house, and deceptive to Christine in his efforts. All these speak of profound misanthropy and rejection of normal society.
Sweeney Todd: Do I really need to explain his misanthropy? The musical is the most sympathetic version of the story, and even there Todd eventually believes all people deserve death.
The Incredible Hulk: When in his Banner form, he's ALMOST a reconciler. Banner doesn't really believe he can ever reconcile with society. He tries to do some good where he can do it, and that's why he's still a hero. He rarely helps out people he has not gotten to know personally as other heroes do, however, and when he's the Hulk a childlike selfishness takes over and defines everything. When your attitude towards the world is often, "HULK SMASH!!! HULK DESTROY!!!" that's misanthropy, sorry.
Further thoughts?
-Frank |
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MissConstrue
Aquarius
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 10862
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting observation as I luv Sweeney Todd's character in books and the movie and have always been a Batman fan.
Don't forget Catwoman she's misanthropic as well. 
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6thSin:Envy |
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Tohlagos
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
Age: 37
Posts: 868
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Cool topic Frank. I have some thoughts in my brain, but let me think on them so I can elaborate on what I want to state about them. Might take me a day or so.
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Ah yes... that hurricane of hate and anger still swirls with reckless abandon within the recess of my soul... may the peace and light in the center of that never-ending storm lead me to that promised paradise... I only have faith in what I know. |
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Rainstorm5
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting points. I agree, except that a lot of people - NTs and Aspies alike - identify with these characters for the very reasons you mention. I don't think someone's Asperger syndrome has much to do with it, other than the 'outsider" factor. A lot of people feel like they're 'outside' of society in one way or another. That's why these characters in movies and books are so popular.
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Jillian AKA Rainstorm5
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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KBABZ
Third Technician, Chicken Soup Machine Repairman
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Age: 18
Posts: 6474
Location: Middle Earth. Er, I mean Wellywood. Wait, Wellington.
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Huh, pretty cool. I myself enjoy the comedic characters than the dark brooding ones (like the video game character Jak in the Jak and Daxter series). Maybe my books will be an instant success because I names them Outcast?
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1637
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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The ultimate dark misanthropic character has to be Maldoror (The Chants of Maldoror) - a sort of superhuman, pathologically cruel (which he regards as his most human trait) antihero that rejects humanity largely out of contempt. He's the sort that attacks mainstream society, conventional morality and traditional religion in particular (he does embrace prostitutes and homosexuals, as well as a hermaphrodite that is a kind of saint)
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just_ben
Raven
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 119
Location: That would be an ecumenical matter!
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Golum, perhaps? As a charcter that spends most of his time as an observer and an angry soul, perhaps he would also fit the bill and lots of people (like myself) sympathise with his situation.
Just a thought.
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frankcritic
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 145
Location: United States, AR
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I do want to clarify that I'm not necessarily saying that any or all of the characters listed are aspie. More that aspies tend to relate to such characters and the whole reconciler/misanthrope polarity represents choices aspies have to make about their relationship with the NT world. Personally, I'm a misanthrope who is prepared to reconcile only to the extent necessary for keeping a job.
-Frank |
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Rainstorm5
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcritic wrote: | I do want to clarify that I'm not necessarily saying that any or all of the characters listed are aspie. More that aspies tend to relate to such characters and the whole reconciler/misanthrope polarity represents choices aspies have to make about their relationship with the NT world. Personally, I'm a misanthrope who is prepared to reconcile only to the extent necessary for keeping a job.
-Frank |
I'm a misanthrope as well. Not so much by choice, though. The world pretty much rejected me since birth, making me the sad, severely isolated individual I am today. This is why I identify with these sort of strange characters. I write about similar characters in my own works. These characters are more 'human' than human, if you understand what I am trying to say. I liked James Harris' main character Hannibal Lecter so much (aside from his cannibalism, which I found disgusting yet fascinating) because of what he represented to me on a metaphorical level. Lecter entranced millions of viewers and readers simply because if he didn't like someone for whatever reason, well, he ate them. He's extremely intelligent, dapper and Anthony Hopkins nailed his character to a tee. The combination of Lecter's high-class, patrician attitude paired with utter depravity made him a snapshot of all humanity - a dichotomy of what is the best of us all and the very worst of us all.
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Jillian AKA Rainstorm5
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe. |
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Ryn
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 359
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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LOL This explains so much about my writing and my choices in favorite characters.
One of my favorite characters since I was thirteen was Louise from Interview with the Vampire.
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"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."--Augusten Burroughs |
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Library_Ann
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Haunting the stacks
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rainstorm5 wrote: | | These characters are more 'human' than human, if you understand what I am trying to say. |
My favorite is Mendoza the time-travelling cyborg botanist from Kage Baker's The Company series. Recruited as a child from a Spanish Inquisition dungeon, her already-distrustful view of people is reinforced by her new superhuman abilities and by studying history (past and future) of the "killer apes". She deliberately chooses a field of study that will minimize her contact with the human race, but of course things don't work out as planned.
Most of my favorite fictional characters are "strangers in a strange land", but I'm not angry enough to empathize with the violent ones.
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Does hating the human race make me a racist?
"We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." Kurt Vonnegut on The Daily Show, 2005
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CockneyRebel
Sid The Love Rat :O)
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 20766
Location: Out in the evening, with me two best Rat Mates, somewhere in Canada :O)
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Zorro is my favourite.
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Sid The Rat is everything that I stand for. We're both large, proud Punkers with Cockney accents. We both have the same issues, as well. I don't see anything wrong, with that. I was put on this planet, to make myself happy. Sid :O) |
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IdahoRose
Imaginary Friend
Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Age: 17
Posts: 4316
Location: Boise, ID
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted.
Last edited by IdahoRose on Wed May 14, 2008 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dox47
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 418
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| I'm rather fond of Dexter myself (Showtime version, not watered down CBS). I like the idea that he's making the most of his situation, in this case being a sociopath with homicidal urges. He's found a way to reconcile a very bad affliction, into a positive(?) thing, by only unleashing his need to kill on those who truly deserve it. I like that the writers didn't make him a vigilante, who kills out of some sense of justice, but someone who needs to kill, and has adapted that need in such a way that he can lead a relatively normal life. I do empathize with the way that he has to fake all his emotions and feelings, only reverting to his true emotionless monotone when the only audience is his next victim. The show is also very funny, in a very dark sort of way that appeals to me. I don't know if you'd call Dexter himself a Misanthrope or a Reconciler, I think he just does his own thing and is ambivalent about society, so long as it leaves him be. |
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MrSinister
Sanity Is Madness
Joined: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 2579
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe that nobody's mentioned Wolverine so far.
Logan might know everybody in the Marvel Universe, but his whole mindset was, for a long time, that of the consummate loner who, in his own words, "never needed nobody for nothin'". He really relies on nobody but himself a lot of the time, and shows a lot of scorn for things he doesn't agree with (except for his friend Nightcrawler's devoutly Catholic religious beliefs, which he doesn't share, but respects nonetheless).
Before Marvel imposed their "no smoking for heroes" policy, Logan's penchant for cigars was a visual indication of his self-destructive streak (like the Thing, Nick Fury, and Gambit, the fact that he does voluntary harm to himself in this fashion shows that he's not exactly his own biggest fan), and made him look like the kind of guy who would quite happily throw himself into one task if it meant not having to listen to his own bitterness any longer. And his uncontrollable berserker rages give him another reason to hate himself (he can't really let his guard down for fear of hurting those he finds himself caring about, however grudgingly).
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