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| Should they leave? |
| Yes |
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62% |
[ 15 ] |
| No |
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16% |
[ 4 ] |
| Not sure |
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20% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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Mc_Jeff
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 190
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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We should withdraw from all areas except the Kurdistan region (where support for the US remains around 90%) and the stabalized regions in Anbar Province (where the war was considered lost until we pulled out, Al Quaeda pulled in, and the residents realized that yes, the US were the good guys in this case, revolted against Al Quaeda and begged us back).
When the residents of Baghdad get tired enough of the fighting that they start viewing the US military as better than the various militias, that is when the war is won, and the same goes for every out of control area within Iraq. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | | the head banging against the wall? or your previous post about things getting out of hand? you make little sense. |
That was on you claiming 'al-qaeda' doesn't exist. |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3208
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Should America leave Iraq? |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Because al-Qaedas presence only promotes peace? |
Al-Qaeda didn't have a significant presence in Iraq until our invasion and subsequent incompetent occupation created a power vacuum. Our presence continues to provide fodder for their recruitment efforts and to engender more antipathy towards the US. Probably not the most effective means of waging a "war on terror."
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3208
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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To clarify my above statement about the war on terror, "know thine enemy." We have to understand the motivation of terrorists. Why do they hate us? Don't try to pull some crap about them being "jealous of our liberty." That is about the biggest load of bull I have ever heard. There is a perception in the Middle East that we act as aggressors and try to boss around these smaller countries, as well as supporting Israel unconditionally without regard to the claims of Palestinians. They also have a host of other objections to the US, such as our actions in Iran in regards to the Shah. Whether any of these perceptions is accurate can be debated, but unless we overcome the negative view many Arab Muslims have of the US, we can't expect to be very successful in fighting terrorism.
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JerryHatake
Kumdo Practitioner
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 8652
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment.
_________________
Jerry
"No one is the same you can't compare yourself to other people because everyone is different" - Michelle
"Everything happens for a reason, no matter how hard that is to believe sometimes, it is so true!" - Michelle
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3208
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
And your proposal is...? South Vietnam went to the Commies when we left, but we weren't accomplishing anything there other than getting people killed. After the dust settled, Vietnam emerged [relatively] peaceful, and probably better off than if we had simply prolonged the conflict indefinitely. Not to say Vietnam became anything resembling a utopia, or that Iraq would, but there really isn't a good way for us to solve this problem. I think we need to cut our losses.
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 1843
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
Since when has Iran tried in invade Iraq or even suggested that.  I don't think they would considerate it from what happened with the Iraq Iran war.
Iran would never be stupid enough to invade Iraq, unlike some.  |
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JerryHatake
Kumdo Practitioner
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 8652
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MR_BOGAN wrote: | | JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
Since when has Iran tried in invade Iraq or even suggested that. I don't think they would considerate it from what happened with the Iraq Iran war.
Iran would never be stupid enough to invade Iraq, unlike some. |
Really some of insurgents are from Iran so they interested in Iraq now with it being powerless and unable to protect itself when we leave.
_________________
Jerry
"No one is the same you can't compare yourself to other people because everyone is different" - Michelle
"Everything happens for a reason, no matter how hard that is to believe sometimes, it is so true!" - Michelle
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MR_BOGAN wrote: | | JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
Since when has Iran tried in invade Iraq or even suggested that. I don't think they would considerate it from what happened with the Iraq Iran war.
Iran would never be stupid enough to invade Iraq, unlike some. |
Invade with influence. Just like it "invaded" Lebanon. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Should America leave Iraq? |
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| Orwell wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Because al-Qaedas presence only promotes peace? |
Al-Qaeda didn't have a significant presence in Iraq until our invasion and subsequent incompetent occupation created a power vacuum. Our presence continues to provide fodder for their recruitment efforts and to engender more antipathy towards the US. Probably not the most effective means of waging a "war on terror." |
No matter what, no one will like the US. There are those brave Iraqis who will publicly show their support by exclaiming that the "liberation" was the best day of their life. Sadly, they have been targets of the militias. |
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JerryHatake
Kumdo Practitioner
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 8652
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | MR_BOGAN wrote: | | JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
Since when has Iran tried in invade Iraq or even suggested that. I don't think they would considerate it from what happened with the Iraq Iran war.
Iran would never be stupid enough to invade Iraq, unlike some. |
Invade with influence. Just like it "invaded" Lebanon. |
Yep the Iranians are there as well which back the idea of Iran trying to rebuild the Persian Empire aka a Modern Persian Empire.
_________________
Jerry
"No one is the same you can't compare yourself to other people because everyone is different" - Michelle
"Everything happens for a reason, no matter how hard that is to believe sometimes, it is so true!" - Michelle
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3208
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Should America leave Iraq? |
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| oscuria wrote: | | No matter what, no one will like the US. There are those brave Iraqis who will publicly show their support by exclaiming that the "liberation" was the best day of their life. Sadly, they have been targets of the militias. |
Um... America was once the most respected and admired country in the world. Our [perceived] imperialistic tendencies have generated animosity towards us. And our presence in Iraq has helped al-Qaedas' recruiting efforts, as even our own intelligence reports acknowledged a few years ago. If we want to be liked in the world (which is the best chance we have of staving off terrorism, as well as being seen as justified when we do respond to terrorism) we need to change the perception worldwide that we are imperialistic or overly aggressive.
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FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Should America leave Iraq? |
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| Orwell wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | No matter what, no one will like the US. There are those brave Iraqis who will publicly show their support by exclaiming that the "liberation" was the best day of their life. Sadly, they have been targets of the militias. |
Um... America was once the most respected and admired country in the world. Our [perceived] imperialistic tendencies have generated animosity towards us. And our presence in Iraq has helped al-Qaedas' recruiting efforts, as even our own intelligence reports acknowledged a few years ago. If we want to be liked in the world (which is the best chance we have of staving off terrorism, as well as being seen as justified when we do respond to terrorism) we need to change the perception worldwide that we are imperialistic or overly aggressive. |
Admired and respected except in the Muslim countries. Remember, the US is a strong supporter and ally to Israel. They will see any of our involvements in their land with Zionist or Crusades intentions. |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3208
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Should America leave Iraq? |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Admired and respected except in the Muslim countries. Remember, the US is a strong supporter and ally to Israel. They will see any of our involvements in their land with Zionist or Crusades intentions. |
I mentioned that in a previous post. It is thought that America supports Israel unconditionally, while ignoring the rights of Palestinians. By either removing ourselves form an issue that doesn't concern us or seeking to be more balanced in how we treat groups with competing claims to that land, we can reverse some of that hatred. The goal of Zionism was to find a safe haven for Jews. Well, today Europe is safer for Jews than the middle east. Why aren't the Zionists setting up communities in France? Basically, Israel has been forced to become a militaristic state because of the pressures of trying to survive while surrounded by people who want to destroy them. That wasn't the purpose of Zionism, it was to get away from the people who wanted to kill Jews. And yet Israel, the culmination of the Zionist movement, is in the one place in the world where Jews are least welcome.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 1843
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryHatake wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | MR_BOGAN wrote: | | JerryHatake wrote: | Withdraw=Iran taking over and becoming Super Iran.
South Vietnam all over again. Plus we are there which gives Iran not a reason to invade when they know that we can easily defeat them with their Soviet equipment against modern war equipment. |
Since when has Iran tried in invade Iraq or even suggested that. I don't think they would considerate it from what happened with the Iraq Iran war.
Iran would never be stupid enough to invade Iraq, unlike some. |
Invade with influence. Just like it "invaded" Lebanon. |
Yep the Iranians are there as well which back the idea of Iran trying to rebuild the Persian Empire aka a Modern Persian Empire. |
I can't really comment, I'll have to do some research. I don't think it is wise to listen to what you hear in the media, it is best to research things before you form an opinion.
I really can't see Iran invading Iraq though. Nothing to gain apart from trouble. |
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