Post 1433758 - (Excellent language skills?)

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Excellent language skills?
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Wrong Planet Forums Forum Index -> General Autism Discussion

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Sora
Love all, trust a few

Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2645
Location: Europe

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:13 am Post subject:

Danielismyname wrote:

An outcome study that draws this line in adults with similar IQs showed that there's a greater level of impairment in those who have delays in the acquisition of language/communication skills.

Thanks. That's a very interesting result of research. I wondered about whether a more severe communication deficit would usually make an overall better outcome harder than in a person with a different and not as severe communication deficit, so it's interesting to see that there are studies backing this idea up.

Danielismyname wrote:

O, and here's Tantun on AS and language:

Quote:

Use language freely but fail to make adjustments to fit different social situations or the needs of their listeners

Yes, I heard that from the professionals. Although the diagnostician didn't recognise (which I find funny), I know I speak the same way to everyone.

2ukenkerl wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean about "ridiculous formal way", or "middle german". I speak hochdeutsch. By "ridiculous formal way", do you mean that you don't deal with declension or formal you(Sie instead of Du), or what? BTW a lot of Germans apparently take shortcuts with much of that.

The formal way of speaking... think of how the language of magazines can differ, that one magazine is maybe for youths and the other one is a popular scientific magazine for professionals - that gives an accurate picture of how my speaking differs from that of my classmates at grammar school.

I do speak perfect Hochdeutsch, but when I said middle German I meant that I just speak like the average type of person, non-academic and from working or middle class. The way I speak is just... average.

I figured many professionals probably only know about today's youths from TV and that they do not know real teenagers in mainstream schools. I take it they think teenagers all speak slang, like those horror kids portrayed on TV. But I bet about 70% of teenagers have at least average language skills.
_________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett

CockneyRebel
Sid The Love Rat :O)

Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 20860
Location: Out in the evening, with me two best Rat Mates, somewhere in Canada :O)

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

People tell me that I articulate well. What in the heck does that mean? Hmm...someone with a thick and unique accent who articulates well. An accent that's so thick, that it's considered cool, by the rebels of the planet. When I think about it, those people also work within the clubhouse, or at other places that deal with people with various mental conditions and disabilities. I thought that Cockneys were too cool, to articulate. _________________ Sid The Rat is everything that I stand for. We're both large, proud Punkers with Cockney accents. We both have the same issues, as well. I don't see anything wrong, with that. I was put on this planet, to make myself happy. Sid :O)

2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4608

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:16 am Post subject:

Sora wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

Well, I guess I still don't really understand. If you speak PERFECT Hochdeutsch, that is almost certainly better than most of your teachers. As for large words, etc... nobody is perfect. You seem to have a decent English vocabulary.

And some of the German words can be LONG and hard to understand even when you know all the parts. English speakers balk at "big" words, but some German words are gigantic. I swear, sometimes it is like a word states what a large sentence might. So you can't fault yourself if you have to look more words up.

BTW I HATE the term "working class"! Evil or Very Mad

Some here try to make it sound like only the harshest blue collar jobs are ones where people are working. OK, so some white collar workers get paid a LOT and some don't even do any work. I, and others like me, don't get paid nearly so much, and DO work.

Anyway, I am middle class. At the moment, I would say I am right in the middle of middle class. But I have a whitecollar job.

Sora wrote:

I figured many professionals probably only know about today's youths from TV and that they do not know real teenagers in mainstream schools. I take it they think teenagers all speak slang, like those horror kids portrayed on TV. But I bet about 70% of teenagers have at least average language skills.

Yeah, they DO have "average" skills HERE! There are so many around their age that average is LOWER! MAN, some of that stuff was AGAINST THE LAW only a couple decades ago! Stations didn't dare violate it because, if they did, they would be SHUT DOWN! Today, it is seen as no big deal because a LOT of people speak that way. Twisted Evil

bettybarton
Blue Jay

Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 75

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:31 am Post subject:

spoke, read, wrote and drew very early; now am erudite, articulate and verbose- to the point of not being able to stop talking... also have unusal use of language- weird words, phraseology, concepts, jump laterally to other subjects clear only to me. i have learn to be much more informal and more normal online, however, but am still weird in person; it feels more like speaking another language, like french- i wave my hands about when i speak it;like the french! and im dyslexic in a weird way, though i read voraciously. everyone's different though- i wouldnt worry too much.. i dont stimm too much.

Sora
Love all, trust a few

Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2645
Location: Europe

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:58 am Post subject:

2ukenkerl wrote:

But Hochdeutsch is German just without a regional dialect. The only ones who still have a real regional dialect here where I live are very few of those who're about some 80+ years old.

Point is, I speak in the same style and like everyone else here where I live. I just keep away from words with strong cultural meaning since I'll most likely use these incorrectly.

We do have a bit of what could be called a dialect, but few would dare speak like that in school or in front of their parents.

2ukenkerl wrote:

BTW I HATE the term "working class"! Evil or Very Mad

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I don't mind being called working class. Or maybe we're middle class? I'm the first one to go to grammar school in my family.

Well, quoting a teacher, Germany doesn't have classes, it has 'social levels'... but seriously, everyone behaves as if we had a class system, so to hell with those 'social levels'...

2ukenkerl wrote:

I don't doubt you're right, but I don't think I've ever realised it could be that bad. It probably could be. It's hard to notice when I'm in the middle of that group of teens.

But I noticed that some younger children do use very foul language. I can't believe parents let kindergarteners speak like that. I mean, they sure don't teach them such words do they, so where did the kids pick such foul words and such horrible grammar up?
_________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett

2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4608

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:33 am Post subject:

Sora wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

That's what I thought. There may be HUNDREDS of "dialects" in a way with English as well, but they are broken down by country(so the smaller sets get a bit obscurred), and nobody would really be able to laugh at you for speaking basic english(That subset that EVERYONE should be able to understand and represents almost 100% spoken on this forum). And it IS a good idea to stay away from some things that are local. If a british straight person came here he shouldn't ask for a fag. If an American went to Great Britain, they shouldn't ask for a napkin.

Sora wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

BTW I HATE the term "working class"! Evil or Very Mad

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I don't mind being called working class. Or maybe we're middle class? I'm the first one to go to grammar school in my family.

You didn't offend me. The POLITICIANS do! I just thought I would mention it. FIRST ONE? WOW! I thought the Germans had a good education system that was free, etc... Or is grammar school THAT different over there?

Over here, EVERYONE is supposed to go to school till about the 8th grade(some can opt out at 8th, because of their community(Like the amish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish )), and that is called grammar school. MOST then go to junior high. Those kids then go to highschool. MOST kids are mandated to go to school until they are 18 which means those of average or better intelligence that didn't play hookey end up graduating highschool. Those that fail or drop out can take a test to show they know the highschool requirements.

Sora wrote:

Well, quoting a teacher, Germany doesn't have classes, it has 'social levels'... but seriously, everyone behaves as if we had a class system, so to hell with those 'social levels'...

Same here! Some people confuse class with caste. Because there is no caste system, they start treating class as one. Frankly, if people HAVE class, it shouldn't matter what class they are in.

Sora wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

The kids pick it up where they pickup EVERYTHING else! ENVIRONMENT! And the biggest source of that is their own family. As for how bad it has gotten? South Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_park may be a cartoon, and may try to stretch things a bit, but many parts of it are all too true(Regarding behaviour, perversion, and language).

Sora
Love all, trust a few

Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2645
Location: Europe

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:

2ukenkerl wrote:

Seems to be very different over here. I usually use the old sense of grammar school, which indicates higher education. I'll stick with German termini from now on in this topic. I'm not exactly the first one to go to a Gymnasium - my mother did too - but I'm the first one to enter 11th grade at a Gymnasium from my family. My mother left Gymnasium sometime around Mittelstufe - that's 7th to 10th grade - and went to a Realschule (=lower than a Gymnasium). I on the other hand didn't want to graduate and find a job at the end of 10th grade of Realschule and changed back to Gymnasium again.

I enjoy this topic, so I'll give a short breakdown of Germany's school system.

Here, elementary school usually goes from 1st to 4th grade. It can go up to 6th grade, but only in very few schools. After that (depending on the federal state) the school either decides to which secondary school a kid must go to or the school gives an opinion on the child, but the parents may make their child apply for any

Since many parents want their kids to go Gymnasium and Realschule - Hauptschule is the lowest school and has gained a horrible reputation in the past 15 years due to the fact that foreigners get dumped there! - most federal states have decided that the parents should no longer decide and thus let the schools decide to which school a kid may go to based on what the kid's teachers think.

That system doesn't work out either though... academical families with children with 'lower IQs' still get to go to Gymnasium while bright children from simple families are send to Realschule...

Hauptschule goes from 5th to 10th grade. Realschule also from 5th to 10th grade and Gymnasium form 5th to 13th grade. All minors must attend a school though until they're 18, so that there are Berufsschulen. Kind of like vocational schools that someone who does an apprenticeship must attend.

There's also the Gesamtschule to which everyone can go - if they're lucky. Unlike the other schools, the Gesamtschule has different courses with different levels of difficulty (I believe there usually are two courses, basic and advanced). The Gesamtschule also has grades 5 to 13.

To attend grades 11 to 13, a student must meet entrance requirements at Realschule and Gesamtschule - those from Hauptschule can't attend 11th grade in the mainstream school system I think. Everyone who passes 10th grade of the Gymnasium is automatically allowed to 11th grade of Gymnasium or Gesamtschule.

After passing exams at the end of 13th grade - I do these right now, from April to June - students are then admitted to University.

So... complicated, yes? I think it is...
_________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett

Reodor_Felgen
Counting down till Castro bites the dust

Joined: Sep 29, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 1487
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

I spoke somewhat early, but much of the stuff I said was delayed echolalia. I have an average vocabulary in norwegian, but nearly failed in english and spanish in high school. _________________ "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."--H. L. Mencken

2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4608

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject:

Sora wrote:

...
After passing exams at the end of 13th grade - I do these right now, from April to June - students are then admitted to University.

So... complicated, yes? I think it is...

OK, I knew about: Hauptschule,Realschule, and Gymnasium. I FIGURED it had to be a misunderstanding on my part. Embarassed

I thought the Abitur was all you needed to leave school, and go to a university(AFTER having taken the classes, of course).

It WOULD be nice if they standardized schools. That is one of my pet peeves. HECK, even getting a degree in the US seems to be at the whim of the schools. They all have different requirements. ALSO, to go through the REST of the school system, it is a cross between the federal government, state government, possibly county government, school system, school, and teachers! And the states used to make the schools word FINAL but now most, if not all, have tests the students must pass.

My class was the FIRST in California, apparently, to get such tests! One reason I may have found later grades harder was that I was always in a different school system! The county, school system, school, and teacher were different, so the curiculum was always different as well. BTW BOOKS are different as well. And that is in PUBLIC school in the SAME country.

BTW It is ironic that The US adopted the term kindergarten for one of the first school experiences. That might have been the first German word(YEAH, I always knew it could be 2 also) that I understood to be German. I even knew it was Kinder Garten (Children's garden). I MIGHT have learned words like Gesundheit earlier, but Gesundheit often has little meaning over here, other than a kind of replacement for "bless you" if someone sneezes. That is CLOSE to "health", but the real meaning is somewhat obscured. There IS a reason WHY English has so many words. One is because it adopts so many foreign ones.

NeantHumain
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:

Yes, many people with Asperger's syndrome excel at language, especially the written and formal register.

Sorenna
Sea Gull

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 238

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Language question, too

I have great vocab, etc. but in other ways I am very much more on the far end of the autism scale. If I Could not speak, I would be given straight up autism.

anbuend
Oak-Type Autie

Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3197

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject:

Argh. I tried for awhile to write a post on this but I oddly enough don't have the language skills to fully describe which parts of language I am good at, which I have trouble with, and the manner in which they can shift around. But in my case some are excellent, some are terrible, some are in between, and I'm dxed with just plain autism. _________________ "We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams

sartresue
Radical Aspergian

Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 2147
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Excellent language skills?

Words, no music topic I read and write adequately, in my native language. I learned to speak at the usual time, but once I learned to read and write, I preferred these forms of communication. I taught myself to read French by looking at the cereal boxes and later, French magazines and simple newspapers. Thank goodness for computers, books and writing. _________________ Radical Aspergian Awe-Tistic Whirlwind Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4608

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Language question, too

Sorenna wrote:

I have great vocab, etc. but in other ways I am very much more on the far end of the autism scale. If I Could not speak, I would be given straight up autism.

WOW, it is AMAZING how little you can tell from a message. You know, I was at a hardware store this morning, and a woman asked me what I wanted. It seemed like it took me 5 minutes to say "I need some weedkiller that can be used in a hose mounted sprayer to kill weeds on my lawn."! Oh yeah, NOW I can easily say it! I KNOW NTs sometimes have trouble with that and, even when they don't, may use atrocious "grammar", but I think I have it too frequently. BTW it was probably less than a minute, but it SEEMED like 5. And I said "herbicide to kill weeds" instead of just weedkiller. 8-(

Anyway, you did fairly well for someone as bad off as you seem to claim.

Sorenna
Sea Gull

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 238

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: So true

That is so true! I get that, too. I actually take my Dad with me to the Dr.s because it is like I am speaking a different language. I look norma, I think, but I don't get across what I am trying to say. Your weedkiller example was great. I understand completely!

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