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Lepidoptera
Blue Jay
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Northern California
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Are Any of These a Meltdown? |
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I need some help to understand if any of the things I'll describe here are a meltdown. I think I understand what causes a meltdown; sensory overload or emotional overload. I've been through 3 rounds of therapy in my life to try to address the worst of my "attacks" but no one could ever tell me what they are. The result is after 30 years I still have them. Meltdowns might explain my problem since I guess you can't really cure them, only manage them. I should mention that I'm a very introverted type and I turn emotions inward. I don't scream or cry under any circumstances, and I never completely lose control, not even as kid.
Let me start with the simplest and least dramatic. I know I'm subject to sensory overload. As an example, I was in to my cousin's daughter's 21st birthday party and there was a dozen people there. After about 5 hours of noise and activity I had had it and went outside where it was quiet. I was absolutely exhausted even though I hadn't done much, except some socializing, which for me is plenty. I was getting one of my headaches that feels more like a shroud over my head with slight nausea than it does pain in my head. A couple of Tylenols and a night's sleep is the best cure for this. Could this be a meltdown?
The second is more dramatic. I go to sleep normally but after about 3 or 4 hours I wake up and my brain is going crazy. Music is playing, thoughts are racing out of control, and images are flashing about, all independent of my normal thinking. This goes on all the time anyway, but not nearly at this intensity. In addition I feel very nauseous with sweats and chills. Occasionally I've vomited. The worst episodes last about 60 minutes. Less severe episodes last only 5 or 10 minutes. These episodes seem to be correlated with how much stuff is going on in my life. At their worst it was several times a week, at best months go by without a severe attack, although minor attacks are common. After a really bad attack I can feel drained the next morning. I should note that about half the symptoms here are the same as a panic attack but there is no feeling of fear or panic. Is this a meltdown?
The third variation is sort of equal to the second in intensity. This is mostly a daytime event. I start getting intestinal cramps which can be painful and may be accompanied by nausea. Shortly thereafter the diarrhea starts. ( Sorry for the graphic description.) Sweats usually accompany each episode. There's also a great sense of emotional release. When the whole thing is over there is a sense of emotional calmness like everything is okay again. I also feel tired but I normally recover completely within a couple of hours. Is this a meltdown?
Has anyone ever had experiences even close to these? Or is everyone as puzzled as my various therapists were? |
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YowlingCat
Lick a Cat - Get a Hairball
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Joined: Feb 12, 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Are Any of These a Meltdown? |
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| Lepidoptera wrote: |
The third variation is sort of equal to the second in intensity. This is mostly a daytime event. I start getting intestinal cramps which can be painful and may be accompanied by nausea. Shortly thereafter the diarrhea starts. ( Sorry for the graphic description.) Sweats usually accompany each episode. There's also a great sense of emotional release. When the whole thing is over there is a sense of emotional calmness like everything is okay again. I also feel tired but I normally recover completely within a couple of hours. Is this a meltdown?
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Yes, they sound like types of meltdowns. I had a type very similar to #3, but mine was caused by a very high-dose, old fashioned birth control pill (Ovulen). I had to figure that one out on my own. Taking a dose of an anti-depressant, 1 tablet immediately after eating, stopped the cramping, etc. I was told that I had "spastic colon," and it didn't seem to occur to any doctor that something was really wrong, even though I got down to 87 pounds, because I couldn't digest food. After I stopped the pill, it took about a year to get to where I could eat without cramps, etc.
Have a thorough checkup and get your thyroid checked.
Last edited by YowlingCat on Thu May 15, 2008 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lepidoptera
Blue Jay
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are Any of These a Meltdown? |
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| YowlingCat wrote: | | Have a thorough checkup and get your thyroid checked. |
I've had several upper GIs run, nothing. I had a colonoscopy a couple years ago. The doctor said I had a "textbook perfect" colon. I get a blood test and physical every year. Almost perfect blood work. Nothing wrong with me. When I explain this problem, the doctors just shrug their shoulders. I went through a period also where I was afraid to eat because of the nighttime attacks and my weight was very low. I eventually had to force myself to eat no matter what happened. Severely underweight is not good.
I've had the "spastic colon" and "IBS" diagnosis also. That's the doctors way of saying, "I don't know what your problem is." 
If it turns out this is some sort of emotional meltdown, at least I'll feel like I have an answer, even if I can't solve it.
Thanks! |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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#1...yep. Pat yourself n the back for withstanding 5 hours. I swear one of the reasons I smoke is so I always have an excuse every hour to go have one...something people understand but AS overstimulation...they have no clue about. I would recommend that you allow yourself 15 min of "fresh air" during any social interaction. You will enjoy it more (I tend to dissociate if I stay in it to long) and avoid what sounds like a beggining migrain.
#2...I have never experienced anything like that after going to sleep only when trying to fall asleep. Do you perhaps take a sedative before bed? This wuld probably shut down the normal "sped racer" thoughts,images,overload that I get before I sleep. Once the meds have wron off 4 hours depends on half life, I think, then you get that racing thoughts thing?
#3 I always have this 45 minutes after I drink milk and sometimes an hour or so after I eat...heat makes it much worse but I never know for sure when it will happen. My urge after eating is to sleep but if I have to stay awake, 90% of the time, I can have the same symptoms. I always assumed it was IBS but never bothered getting meds or anything for it. SOmetimes I will take Peptobysmol if I have it for several days but it usually just comes and goes randomely(I can never remember to keep an eating journal to see if I'm alergic to something...which I really should do. I do think that mine improved by....taking hypothroid meds, no birth control and cutting out any soda and most artificial sweeteners. I think those are my worse triggers and getting thyroid checked is something I wold recommend to everyone but especially women.
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Willard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Confederate States of America
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Are Any of These a Meltdown? |
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| Lepidoptera wrote: | I need some help to understand if any of the things I'll describe here are a meltdown.I should mention that I'm a very introverted type and I turn emotions inward. I don't scream or cry under any circumstances, and I never completely lose control, not even as kid.
the simplest and least dramatic.absolutely exhausted even though I hadn't done much, except some socializing, which for me is plenty. I was getting one of my headaches that feels more like a shroud over my head with slight nausea than it does pain in my head. A couple of Tylenols and a night's sleep is the best cure for this. Could this be a meltdown? |
That's an extremely common Aspie reaction to socialization, but I don't consider that a meltdown, just a moderate anxiety attack.
| Lepidoptera wrote: | | The second is more dramatic. I go to sleep normally but after about 3 or 4 hours I wake up and my brain is going crazy. Music is playing, thoughts are racing out of control, and images are flashing about, all independent of my normal thinking. This goes on all the time anyway, but not nearly at this intensity. Is this a meltdown? |
I don't know what that's called, but it's caused by an alcohol deficiency. Drink more before you go to bed and that won't happen. Seriously.
| Lepidoptera wrote: | | The third variation is sort of equal to the second in intensity. This is mostly a daytime event. I start getting intestinal cramps which can be painful and may be accompanied by nausea. Shortly thereafter the diarrhea starts. ( Sorry for the graphic description.) Sweats usually accompany each episode. There's also a great sense of emotional release. When the whole thing is over there is a sense of emotional calmness like everything is okay again. I also feel tired but I normally recover completely within a couple of hours. Is this a meltdown? |
That's also an experience I'm familiar with, but again, I think it's a reaction to sustained anxiety (like ulcers and acid reflux).
| Lepidoptera wrote: | | Has anyone ever had experiences even close to these? Or is everyone as puzzled as my various therapists were? |
I also tend to internalize emotion a lot. In fact, to avoid confrontation, I swallow most of the things that hurt, annoy and frustrate me on a daily basis. Problem is, I can only do that for so long, before I have to say something and when I do, it tends to all come pouring out at once in a sort of tidal wave of pent-up raw emotion. Sometimes, it manifests as grief and depression, other times as rage, but it is always preceded by a sort of mental (not emotional) numbness, in which my rational cognitive functions seem to shut down, sort of like a transparent sheath that envelops me and walls out the source of the pressure and anxiety. Due to that over stimulation I cannot think rapidly enough to sustain an argument, even if I know I'm right, so I stop speaking altogether.This is the point at which the smartest thing for anyone else around to do, is walk away and let the tension dissipate. Unfortunately, people without autism usually don't understand that and will continue to stand there pounding on the glass, so to speak, to get their point across, or to get a reaction (Oh, they're gonna get a reaction, alright). Always a bad move. (You wouldn't like me when I'm angry). This is what I consider to be the meltdown stage, when the alarm buzzers start clanging (I can hear them, why can't they?), and that female robot voice calmly repeats: "You. now. have. twenty. seconds. to. reach. minimum. safe. distance."
Maybe it's different for different psyches, but that's my experience.
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YowlingCat
Lick a Cat - Get a Hairball
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't remember when I was writing, but the drug was Ludiomil. I think it was 75mg. You shouldn't take this if you have seizures.
I would take it as soon as the cramping began, and I would fall asleep within 10 minutes for 17 minutes (weird, but I timed it). I'd be OK after I woke up. I'd tried taking the drug as an antidepressant, but on the regular dosage, I hallucinated and felt disconnected to reality. ( I think I was the first person to have "feelings of unreality" reported as a side-effect).
I just happened to have some tablets around, and took one - not sure what prompted that, but anyway it worked for me. The drug was brand-new, in the 70's, and the doctor (shrink) had never used it before. It was so funny, because when I went in to talk to my psychologist about my working with the shrink, it turned out the shrink had told him that I was being uncooperative, because I refused to continue the drug. The psychologist asked me "Don't you want to get well?" And I replied, "How can I get well if I'm hallucinating?" And that was the end of that.
(Actually, now that they've made the seizure link, I wonder if that wasn't some electrical activity going on). |
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Lepidoptera
Blue Jay
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | | #1...yep. Pat yourself n the back for withstanding 5 hours. I swear one of the reasons I smoke is so I always have an excuse every hour to go have one...something people understand but AS overstimulation...they have no clue about. I would recommend that you allow yourself 15 min of "fresh air" during any social interaction. You will enjoy it more (I tend to dissociate if I stay in it to long) and avoid what sounds like a beggining migrain. |
Yes, I should probably do that. I have another one of those things coming up in June. Breaks would be a good idea.
| Quote: | | #2...I have never experienced anything like that after going to sleep only when trying to fall asleep. Do you perhaps take a sedative before bed? This wuld probably shut down the normal "sped racer" thoughts,images,overload that I get before I sleep. Once the meds have wron off 4 hours depends on half life, I think, then you get that racing thoughts thing? |
I have xanax which I take as sparingly and as intermittently as possible. Before bed is a good time and it does tend to quiet the brain. It's half life is four hours. I get about 6 hours out of 1/2 a tablet. A whole tablet pretty much ensures a quiet night.
Over time I've come to believe that it's only a temporary block. If I'm headed for an episode, it will happen eventually no matter what.
| Quote: | | #3 I always have this 45 minutes after I drink milk and sometimes an hour or so after I eat...heat makes it much worse but I never know for sure when it will happen. My urge after eating is to sleep but if I have to stay awake, 90% of the time, I can have the same symptoms. I always assumed it was IBS but never bothered getting meds or anything for it. SOmetimes I will take Peptobysmol if I have it for several days but it usually just comes and goes randomely(I can never remember to keep an eating journal to see if I'm alergic to something...which I really should do. I do think that mine improved by....taking hypothroid meds, no birth control and cutting out any soda and most artificial sweeteners. I think those are my worse triggers and getting thyroid checked is something I wold recommend to everyone but especially women. |
I'm reasonably certain that eating doesn't have anything to do with it and I'm sure I don't have food allergies with two exceptions and they happen every time. Salmon and swordfish make me feel slightly nauseous shortly after eating it. Anything that uses chili pepper as a seasoning gives me horrible indigestion. I'm definitely not lactose intolerant. |
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Lepidoptera
Blue Jay
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are Any of These a Meltdown? |
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| Willard wrote: | | I don't know what that's called, but it's caused by an alcohol deficiency. Drink more before you go to bed and that won't happen. Seriously. |
LOL! I'm sure it would work but I don't like the taste of alcohol so I don't drink it.
| Quote: | | That's also an experience I'm familiar with, but again, I think it's a reaction to sustained anxiety (like ulcers and acid reflux). |
It could be. I have plenty of anxiety problems. It does seem to me that it's happened at times that I wasn't feeling anxiety. But then again, there are so many emotions I never feel that it's possible I simply miss them all at times. |
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gbollard
the oncoming storm
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3063
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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All three episodes sound more like an anxiety attack than a meltdown. You were anxious/agitated but never had things out of your control.
1. After about 5 hours of noise and activity....
Yep, as someone else said, you did well to get through 5 hours and it's a common aspie reaction. Your headache could have been related to the noise and activity combined with your desire to be elsewhere.
2. This is serious anxiety preventing you from sleeping. It could also be worsened with different types of food.
3. Once again anxiety and food in combination.
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http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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Lepidoptera
Blue Jay
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | | 2. This is serious anxiety preventing you from sleeping. It could also be worsened with different types of food. |
Anxiety seems to be the consensus and it's no surprise. I'm skeptical about food though since I eat basically the same things all the time and can go extended periods with no problem at all, and then seemingly out of the blue, I have a problem, although it's likely I'm just missing the warning signs.  |
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gbollard
the oncoming storm
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3063
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lepidoptera wrote: | | I'm skeptical about food though since I eat basically the same things all the time and can go extended periods with no problem at all, and then seemingly out of the blue, I have a problem, although it's likely I'm just missing the warning signs. |
I've always eaten the same sorts of (wrong) foods and haven't had reactions.
Then suddenly out of the blue, I started getting very sick. It was weird. I'd have two really sick days (almost always on weekends) every two weeks.
It turned out that this started about 6 months after an overseas trip where I drank some water that wasn't good for me.
I'd gotten candida, a type of fungus which feeds on sugar and likes to grow in the walls of the intestines. What happened was that the fungus spent about 6 months feeding off the sugar until it was large enough to cause problems for me.
After the weekend of being sick - in which I'd eat nothing. (my reaction to being sick). I'd slowly start back on the food, but wouldn't eat anything useful for the candida for the first few days (ie: sugary stuff).
The candida would die off for a couple of weeks, but as I started back on sugary stuff, it would start to regrow until it caused the problem again.
The problem wasn't strictly food but was a reaction of the candida to food.
Eventually I went on an "absolutely no-sugar for 3 months" anti-candida diet in which I lost 24 kg. (very hard to find stuff without sugar). This diet killed the candida completely.
Now I can eat sugar to my heart's content and only worry about the inevitable heart attack, not the candida.
BTW: You can get Candida in a number of ways including;
- Bad water
- Too many antibiotics (Candida occurs naturally in the body but ABs kill the "good germs" which keep it under control).
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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You don't get candida from drinking bad water...it is always in our bodies. If it gets out of balance, it has to be connected to something that has killed the good bacteria in our bodies that keep it in check. I know hormones can play a part as well as the antibiotics. I never had a yeast infection until I went on the pill . It is also sexually transmited. Probiotics, like achidopholous can help if it isn't to bad. I have always been a suger junky and even after being on the Atkins diet for several months, mine has come back after going off the diet.  I wish more DRs believed in candida infections causing cognitive and other problems but they seem to deny that it is a problem unless it gets to the stage of making your own  cottage cheese
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gbollard
the oncoming storm
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3063
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| krex wrote: | | You don't get candida from drinking bad water...it is always in our bodies. |
You don't get it from drinking bad water but drinking bad water can kill the organisms that keep it under control.
| krex wrote: | | I have always been a suger junky and even after being on the Atkins diet for several months, mine has come back after going off the diet. |
I don't think that the Atkins diet will kill Candida. I went on a specific anti-candida diet which was quite gruelling but it worked a treat.
1. No sugar (absolutely no sugar - that also means no fruit) for a minimum of 2 months.
2. No fungus for 3 months (includes Bananas, peanuts, mushrooms etc)
3. Other Fruits are available after 2 months but only in small doses
4. Daily garlic one or two cloves (that sort of rules out close contact with people).
5. Daily Acidopholis - not yogurt but the real stuff.
6. No Milk for 3 months
7. No grains for 3 months (wheat, malt etc)
8. Absolutely NO antibiotics.
| krex wrote: | | I wish more DRs believed in candida infections |
For some reason, Dr's don't believe in Candida, yet you can see the infection in a microscope if it makes it into your bloodstream. (This also means that the roots of the infection have broken a hole in the intestines).
I suffered for ages before being picked up by a relative who was training to be a naturapath. Funnily enough, she was learning to be a naturapath because she couldn't get a straight answer about her own candida problems.
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 4973
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if I can kick my suger habit but the rest seems doable. I would be interested in a recommendation for a website or book that tells you what to eat and avoid. I ate a lot of nuts on Atkins...had no idea they had fungi 
A bit personal herre but I am wondering what effects hormones have on this because I know I had horrid yeast infection when I was on the pill and most of them cleared up after I went off those. But I also have a low thyroid and a uterine tumor and I think there is some really wacky hormone things going on because of this. Do you think this effects candida growth?
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YowlingCat
Lick a Cat - Get a Hairball
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes to birth control.
Candida - some causes
I took a daily antifungal, but as long as I was on BC, I don't think it helped much. I do think that candida was what caused my wasting, and that it took a full year to get my gut stabilized after quitting BC. |
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