Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Too sexy for my Burka
I'm not a racist, but perhaps it's time to teach some of the more conservative muslims that they don't have to take the Qur'an that litteraly? _________________ "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."--H. L. Mencken
Joined: Mar 07, 2006 Posts: 710 Location: aberdeen
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:20 am Post subject:
i'm always sceptical of any statement that begins"i'm not a racist, but...". or, for that matter, "i'm not a _______ , but..." _________________ "The picture is a self-sufficient work of art. It is not connected to anything outside."
i'm always sceptical of any statement that begins"i'm not a racist, but...". or, for that matter, "i'm not a _______ , but..."
I began the statement that way because it's considered "politically incorrect" to criticize other religions than christianity. _________________ "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."--H. L. Mencken
How do you propose to do this teaching without provoking violence?
We could begin with fireing all the violent imams in the non-muslim countries. _________________ "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."--H. L. Mencken
How do you propose to do this teaching without provoking violence?
Um... History teaches us that unprovoked Muslim violence remains alive and well
from generation to generation. It's part of their culture. That's what they do.
Now, maybe they terrorize the world for some etherially wonderful inner reasons,
but the fact remains that they do terrorize the world out of who they are.
You, yourself, admitted by your question that Muslims are prone to violence. _________________ Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: Finland
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:
I did not mean to imply by my question that only Muslims are prone to violence, merely that, like in many other sectors of humanity, attempts to modify deep rooted cultural norms requires some sort of strong force which can be countered by general violence. The deep animosity to black people in some sectors of the USA evoked violence when it was countered by people sympathetic to giving blacks equal rights. It is not as bad now as it used to be but it certainly has not disappeared.
In a society that seems to want to tread lightly when objecting to religious practices that may offend general human decency the problems are not simple and the use of outright force is likely to engender counter forces that could get very much out of hand.
I did not mean to imply by my question that only Muslims are prone to violence
But it's important that you did. And, except for the word "only", you're right.
Replacing "only" with "highly" would perfect the accuracy of the sentence.
We've seen the Islamic hair-trigger in instances such as the outrage
and death threats over the Danish cartoons, just to name one of many
violent over-reactions.
Can you say "drama"? _________________ Anyone who is interested in philosophy, the of meaning of life, and answers to our hardest questions, I suggest you check out the free, online mp3 archive of Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org.
Last edited by Ragtime on Tue May 20, 2008 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
First of all, I Do think its outrageous that Muslim Women are required to wear veils; but other than that I DONT think its such a terrible thing that there are cultures were women are not allowed to show off their bodies! Furthermore, strict Islamic law requires male muslims to wear loose fitting clothes that cover everything but their head and hands when in public-ever notice how members of Al Qaida are always wearing some kind of headdress? AFAIK men in say, Saudi Arabia are NEVER allowed to be bare chested or wear shorts out in public and I really dont think thats such a bad thing at all. I mean, I dont care to see womens bodies all the time NOR do I care to see mens bodies! Suppose there were a society which granted men and women legal equality BUT required BOTH sexes to cover up while in public...........would that be considered "sexist" and repressive by today's liberated western women? What I really HATE the most about American culture is the constant mixed messages it sends about sex. It tries to take a middleground stance and that only creates even MORE problems! There ARE times when I really dont care to have sex pushed at me whenever I go out in public by seeing people running around half-naked!
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: Finland
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:
It's evident that some people confuse nakedness with sex. That is a social convention. I am not automatically sexually aroused on seeing naked people of the opposite sex. Perhaps I am fundamentally different from other people, but I have seen rather ordinary women (I am male) made much more sexually interesting by their clothing. And some women who are of no interest to me because of their lack of attire. I find nothing offensive about any part of the human body and it seems to me that it should be a matter of personal choice as to how much or how little people choose to dress. It offends me that anybody should be upset by seeing natural human body parts. Any page of advertisement will contain pictures of people obviously presented as sexually enticing in order to sell anything from automobiles to bananas and I have yet to hear complaints about this. I don't give a damn but the advertising industry would go broke without sexual allure.
It's evident that some people confuse nakedness with sex. That is a social convention. I am not automatically sexually aroused on seeing naked people of the opposite sex. Perhaps I am fundamentally different from other people, but I have seen rather ordinary women (I am male) made much more sexually interesting by their clothing. And some women who are of no interest to me because of their lack of attire. I find nothing offensive about any part of the human body and it seems to me that it should be a matter of personal choice as to how much or how little people choose to dress. It offends me that anybody should be upset by seeing natural human body parts. Any page of advertisement will contain pictures of people obviously presented as sexually enticing in order to sell anything from automobiles to bananas and I have yet to hear complaints about this. I don't give a damn but the advertising industry would go broke without sexual allure.
Human beings are wired to find other peoples bodies sexually inticing. This is Especially true for youn adults. One of the MAJOR social problems that has arisen since the late 60s in America when women began entering the work force is the sexual tensions that arise in the workplace. The same is true on college campuses and everywhere that men and women publically intermingle. I havent an ounce of sympathy for young women who parade around in mini skirts and act like they're entitled not to have men stare, catcall, and make vulgar comments. If you choose to flaunt your sexuality than you're gonna have to get used to unwanted attention.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: Finland
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:
Or, contrary-wise, hyper testosterone types might have to get used to the fact that just because they have an erection nobody has to pay any attention to them.
Or, contrary-wise, hyper testosterone types might have to get used to the fact that just because they have an erection nobody has to pay any attention to them.
Look: If you dont like the fact that people(yes-men too)are not allowed to show off their bodies in Muslim cultures than simply
dont live in or travel to a Muslim Country If muslim women are REALLY that unhappy with not being able to show off than they should just emigrate to a western country or muster the audacity to demand social change.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: Finland
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject:
It's a lot worse than mere bodily display. No day passes without a woman being killed for dishonoring her family. Women are treated as chattel slaves no better than dogs. You might as well have told people back in the thirties not to travel to Germany if you didn't like the way Jews were treated there.
It's a lot worse than mere bodily display. No day passes without a woman being killed for dishonoring her family. Women are treated as chattel slaves no better than dogs. You might as well have told people back in the thirties not to travel to Germany if you didn't like the way Jews were treated there.
Now ^THAT certainly is something to be outraged by and to criticize, not the fact that women in those culture arent allowed to show off their bodies. You see, what if women WERE given equal civil and legal rights-meaning that honor killings would be regarded as premeditated murder and punished accordingly but the customs requiring them to cover up were kept in place? Would you still object? Why do western women focus more on women not being able to show off their bodies than the fact that women in those cultures are treated as chattel?
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If muslim women are REALLY that unhappy with not being able to show off than they should just emigrate to a western country or muster the audacity to demand social change. 
