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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5536
Location: United States
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Atheism does nothing to save mankind from these ills.
It can't, because it offers nothing. |
Why not? Your opposition would argue that by offering nothing it removes the problem caused by bad offers. |
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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A bad offer is better than no offer, isn't it?
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iamnotaparakeet
Venator draconum
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 10835
Location: Insula internicivum draconum.
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | iamnotaparakeet wrote: | How many problems are simply caused by the vices of mankind
compared to
how many are caused by religious disagreement? |
Religion encourages irrationalism and blind faith, which serve to amplify the vices of mankind. |
Some religions do, but are you willing to claim that Christianity does? Truly though, anything can be used as an excuse, but it is when people seek to justify what they want to do rather than do what they know they should that people have used the Bible to justify what they desire.
The idea that "any interpretation is valid" leads to a lot of crap...
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"Dracones debiti sunt deflagrare." |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1524
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've been paying attention. I have been a Christian my whole life, you ass. And never have I suggested that Christianity was totally innocent. 
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1524
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Temper, temper! Read your own post carefully and understand its implications. Peace be with you. |
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slowmutant
Templar Knight
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 5121
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the implications better than you think.
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Still though, if god was so loving and caring, why would he want people to subjugate themselves to him? To bow to him, and to worship him? That doesn't sound at all like a loving god, it sounds like a bitter god with a power trip.
And if you go back to arguing "we are the children" or w/e, then you are further proving my point, that you are not in control of your own life, someone else is. And that is the very definition of slavery. If there was a loving god, and it had a message to send, I think it's message is lost in the egotistical power trip of needing people to bow to and worship him. And such a power trip would never turn out a healthy, balanced relationship. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters.
| Sand wrote: | | The speculations about God being this or that or the other considering the monstrous inconsistencies of the whole area boils down to basic comical mental acrobatics. One sector claims that God is so superior that no amount of human speculation can encompass the reality of a being so posited. Another attempts to rationalize God with current morality of a rather local nature - each social group throughout the world specifying something different involving localized cultural traditional diets, costume, sexual behavior etc. Since there are extreme differences in these from culture to culture it is unlikely any consensus will ever be reached. And yet this impossible discussion goes on and on and on with no possibility of a general consensus. |
There is many things in this world that can be verified but are not because they are outside our scope. Where is HE in this world that you can subjectively test your results?
This discussions will go on ever and ever because people will hold strongly to their beliefs (atheist and the theist).
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| snake321 wrote: | Still though, if god was so loving and caring, why would he want people to subjugate themselves to him? To bow to him, and to worship him? That doesn't sound at all like a loving god, it sounds like a bitter god with a power trip.
And if you go back to arguing "we are the children" or w/e, then you are further proving my point, that you are not in control of your own life, someone else is. And that is the very definition of slavery. If there was a loving god, and it had a message to send, I think it's message is lost in the egotistical power trip of needing people to bow to and worship him. And such a power trip would never turn out a healthy, balanced relationship. |
You can look at it anyway you want. I am not in control of myself, so I accept my position as a servant to Him. I'm not as arrogant to believe I can do whatever I so choose to.
You are treating Him as a partner. You cannot associate yourself with him with such descriptions you have. That is why you have this belief.
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The above view subject to change. |
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nightbender
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 480
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| you guys really need to chech tomas aquinas proofs of gods existance. Having had the arch-angel Micheal pay me personal visits during several periods of my life i find all this atheism laughable. ANd my psych reports say not psychotic. |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| snake321 wrote: | Still though, if god was so loving and caring, why would he want people to subjugate themselves to him? To bow to him, and to worship him? That doesn't sound at all like a loving god, it sounds like a bitter god with a power trip.
And if you go back to arguing "we are the children" or w/e, then you are further proving my point, that you are not in control of your own life, someone else is. And that is the very definition of slavery. If there was a loving god, and it had a message to send, I think it's message is lost in the egotistical power trip of needing people to bow to and worship him. And such a power trip would never turn out a healthy, balanced relationship. |
Atheist Explaination
In the case of cultish religions, the power trip is necessary. If a person's reason, self-interest, or self-image goes against the teachings of the cult, the only way for the cult to survive is to reward blind obediance and faith. The cognitive dissonance of the idea that 'god' is good and worthy of worship, but also selfish and rigid, demanding her believers to humble themselves before her, is resolved by claiming that 'god' is beyond human understanding. Any illogical statements are dismissed by this arguement, and any voices who raise them are called unenlighted, spiteful, or something along those lines.
Theist Explaination
It is not so much that God demands that his children subjugate themselves before him. God truly does love everyone unconditionally, and nothing can change that.
No, it is that when we are lost, in pain, alone, that by opening up to god, by ceasing to struggle and rail against her, we feel her love and find new strength. We come to understand that, no matter how frightening or painful our situation, it will be alright. She will walk beside us, comforting, reassuring, and welcome us into her arms when at last our journey is over. Against such awesome and steadfast love, we cannot help but feel humbled, amazed that we are worthy of such devotion.
It is beyond logic, beyond reason; it is a place that the mind simply cannot go. The harder one struggles for it, the further it goes. Only by being still, by accepting what is freely given without demand or ego, can we know the love of God. |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 7324
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | I've been paying attention. I have been a Christian my whole life, you ass. And never have I suggested that Christianity was totally innocent. |
Certainly not innocent. 
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We all dream; we do not understand our dreams, yet we act as if nothing strange goes on in our sleep minds, strange at least by comparison with the logical, purposeful doings of our minds when we are awake. -Erich Fromm |
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1884
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Atheism does nothing to save mankind from these ills.
It can't, because it offers nothing. |
Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism.
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My Blog: http://selzshaven.blogspot.com |
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1884
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | Odin wrote: | | iamnotaparakeet wrote: | How many problems are simply caused by the vices of mankind
compared to
how many are caused by religious disagreement? |
Religion encourages irrationalism and blind faith, which serve to amplify the vices of mankind. |
Some religions do, but are you willing to claim that Christianity does? Truly though, anything can be used as an excuse, but it is when people seek to justify what they want to do rather than do what they know they should that people have used the Bible to justify what they desire.
The idea that "any interpretation is valid" leads to a lot of crap... |
ALL Religion amplifies the vices of mankind, Christianity included.
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My Blog: http://selzshaven.blogspot.com |
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