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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1878
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters. |
No-True-Scotsman Fallacy.
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1878
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| nightbender wrote: | | you guys really need to chech tomas aquinas proofs of gods existance. Having had the arch-angel Micheal pay me personal visits during several periods of my life i find all this atheism laughable. ANd my psych reports say not psychotic. |
Aquinas's arguments were pwned in the late 1700s. You need to read Immanuel Kant's proofs that the existance of god cannot be proved with logic and deductive reasining, there is only belief based on blind faith or no belief.
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oscuria
Hulk Crush Puny Obama!
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1674
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters. |
No-True-Scotsman Fallacy. |
Incorrect. Read the Bible for once instead of criticizing from afar.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=9;
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iamnotaparakeet
Enemy of Wal-Mart!!!
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 9100
Location: 44.7N 93.6W
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Odin wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters. |
No-True-Scotsman Fallacy. |
Incorrect. Read the Bible for once instead of criticizing from afar.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=9; |
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Basically, sinners may claim to belong to Christ, but they aren't His. It's a matter of qualification:
Acceptance of Christ as Savior and Lord means: recognizing He is the prophesied Messiah of the Old Testament, and that you repent from your sins and live an honorable life for His name's sake. Many would die for Christs' sake, but how many will live for Christs' sake?
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Ego non psittacus sum, sed amici mei psittaci sunt.
Deum meum culpabant ob toto malo, sed Deum meum laudabo ob toto bono. |
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slowmutant
Zen Master
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 3054
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism. |
With only the absence of something to believe in, how can atheists be anything other than nihilistic? |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1144
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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This from Wikipedia on nihilism:
* Objective morality does not exist; therefore no action is logically preferable to any other.
* In the absence of morality, existence has no higher meaning or goal.
* There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.
* Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, mankind has no moral obligation to worship them.
The implication that atheists have no values because they do not believe in a super intelligence controlling the universe certainly does not indicate they adhere to all those four points. Social values are constructed to order society into some sort of decent method of people getting along with each other and prospering. You don't have to be religious to do that. As an atheist the last two statements seem reasonable to me. The first two have nothing to do with atheism. |
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1878
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Odin wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters. |
No-True-Scotsman Fallacy. |
Incorrect. Read the Bible for once instead of criticizing from afar.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=9; |
I don't care what the Bible says, I care about what LOGIC says. If someone considers himself a Christian he is a Christian.
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Odin
Supreme Genius
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Age: 22
Posts: 1878
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism. |
With only the absence of something to believe in, how can atheists be anything other than nihilistic? |
The label "atheist" only says that that person doesn't believe in god and blind faith, it does not mean the person believes in nothing.
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slowmutant
Zen Master
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 3054
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Without God or faith of any kind, what is left to believe in? A belief in logic and reason is just pedestrian commonsense. |
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iamnotaparakeet
Enemy of Wal-Mart!!!
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 9100
Location: 44.7N 93.6W
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe in [g]od and I don't have blind faith, but I accept God's existence from experience and from design features in nature ranging from the workings of the solar system to the nanotechnological level of the cell and DNA. I accept Christ based on the historicity of the New Testament and Masoretic Text with the Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled in Christ.
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Ego non psittacus sum, sed amici mei psittaci sunt.
Deum meum culpabant ob toto malo, sed Deum meum laudabo ob toto bono. |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 6449
Location: Home
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Without God or faith of any kind, what is left to believe in? A belief in logic and reason is just pedestrian commonsense. |
Why?
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Maybe none of it was real. Perhaps we were all part of a shared illusion. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism. |
With only the absence of something to believe in, how can atheists be anything other than nihilistic? |
Atheism does put one well within arm's reach of nihilistic thoughts. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7392
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Odin wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | If you think Christianity is totally innocent you simply have not been paying attention. |
You have a different method of defining innocence. How many truly follow the practice? Not many. That is where deviation enters. |
No-True-Scotsman Fallacy. |
Incorrect. Read the Bible for once instead of criticizing from afar.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=9; |
I don't care what the Bible says, I care about what LOGIC says.
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Okay, but in order to criticize Christians as Christians you have to know what the Bible says.
That's why I look up verses in the Qu'ran when I criticize Muslims;
I practice what I preach.
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If someone considers himself a Christian he is a Christian. |
What is said does not necessarily bear relation to what is true. Otherwise, Barack would be the messiah he thinks he is instead of an inexperienced dolt.  |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 6449
Location: Home
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Quote: | | Of course, Atheism is the LACK of belief, but that doesn't mean Atheists are nihilists, there are plenty of non-religious philosophies like Humanism. |
With only the absence of something to believe in, how can atheists be anything other than nihilistic? |
Atheism does put one well within arm's reach of nihilistic thoughts. |
ok, denying the existence in God, does not conform to all the requirements to follow nihilism philosophy and being considered nihilist, as you have said, you have read the Quran to criticize muslims, so I believe reading about nihilism would do some fairness.
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oscuria
Hulk Crush Puny Obama!
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1674
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: |
I don't care what the Bible says, I care about what LOGIC says. If someone considers himself a Christian he is a Christian. |
That is a stupid argument and not something that a logical person would say.
How many people scream "THAT ISN"T A TRUE COMMUNIST COUNTRY!" whenever a person mentions communism? Is that a no-true-scotsman fallacy? No, right? Because it involves the great theory of Karl Marx, irrefutable, and wise! Infallible his words.
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