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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: obama: support for israel is sacrosanct |
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sac·ro·sanct Audio Help /ˈsækroʊˌsæŋkt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sak-roh-sangkt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. extremely sacred or inviolable: a sacrosanct chamber in the temple.
2. not to be entered or trespassed upon: She considered her home office sacrosanct.
3. above or beyond criticism, change, or interference: a manuscript deemed sacrosanct.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sacrosanct
is it wise to basically say that a country is holy and beyond criticism? |
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LePetitPrince
Equalist
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 5130
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a religious divine duty to support Israel for any US gov.....
Do the Israelis feel the same toward US? hmmm |
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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, AIPAC runs all our political representation. So like I've been saying, zionism has nothing to really do with jews, they just use the "jewish nation" as a PC ploy to shut out any criticism by making people think "anyone who questions us is anti-semetic".
There are also some jews too who are against zionism. It's not really about jews, it's about "elite" bloodlines coming together to rule the world... Some of those bloodlines are christian. |
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Mc_Jeff
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I guess there had to be something good about Obama.
I'd like to hear him say it in a CAIR board meeting, though. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | Sounds like a religious divine duty to support Israel for any US gov.....
Do the Israelis feel the same toward US? hmmm |
the US is very popular there culturally but i doubt they have any kind of feeling of responsibility towards us like our government displays with them. the US politicians treat israel like their own kids: they spoil them, bail them out of trouble, give them excessive ammounts of money, and never hold them accountable for their actions. |
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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1828
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Many Jews don't support Israel neither, there is a big difference between zionism and being jewish. Israel in itself is growing more and more into a secular country, with a surprisingly high number of people claiming to be atheist (although many will be considered Jew by birth)
Must admit though I personally do support the existance of Israel, without saying that the government are angels who don't do anything wrong. They should withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza and stop building new settlements there, for a start. But on the other hand it was Israel who was prepared to talk and negotiate from the earliest days on, when the UN made its partition plan prior to the independence of Israel.
_________________
You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
(London After Midnight) |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| crackedpleasures wrote: | | Must admit though I personally do support the existance of Israel, without saying that the government are angels who don't do anything wrong. |
at this point you kinda have to unless you're great at evacuation plans.
i have no problem with israel existing but it can't exist in its current incarnation nor with its current relationship in the middle east and to the US. |
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Mc_Jeff
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just not seeing how even the densest liberal can be pro-Palestine.
1) Israel vacates Gaza
2) Hamas responds by trying to kill them.
(Which, incidentally, is how Hamas responds to every single action Israel takes towards peace. Peace in the Middle East is a pipe dream until Islam begs for mercy.)
If anything, Israel should be reclaiming Gaza and establishing martial law in there. At the very least. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mc_Jeff wrote: | | Peace in the Middle East is a pipe dream until Islam begs for mercy. |
more like so long as two sets of idiots are both claiming divine will to a piece of worthless land.
is three generations deep considered to the point where the people are natural to the area? what i mean by that is: the people who lived in the area for hundreds of years are not the people in charge...the ones in charge are immigrants who moved there on account of their own manifest destiny.
i'm more curious than anything because for all intent and purposes, israel is a social experiment and nothing has been done like it before on such a scale in such an area....at least not without massive amounts of death on the level of genocide. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2158
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Mc_Jeff wrote: | | Peace in the Middle East is a pipe dream until Islam begs for mercy. |
more like so long as two sets of idiots are both claiming divine will to a piece of worthless land.
is three generations deep considered to the point where the people are natural to the area? what i mean by that is: the people who lived in the area for hundreds of years are not the people in charge...the ones in charge are immigrants who moved there on account of their own manifest destiny.
i'm more curious than anything because for all intent and purposes, israel is a social experiment and nothing has been done like it before on such a scale in such an area....at least not without massive amounts of death on the level of genocide. |
"Genocide" from both sides, right?
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sticks and stones may kill you. |
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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1828
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | crackedpleasures wrote: | | Must admit though I personally do support the existance of Israel, without saying that the government are angels who don't do anything wrong. |
at this point you kinda have to unless you're great at evacuation plans.
i have no problem with israel existing but it can't exist in its current incarnation nor with its current relationship in the middle east and to the US. |
I do believe that the problems will come to an end. Even the most stubborn Arab countries like Saudi Arabia (the worst religious dictatorship in the world) is now prepared to talk to Israel if they allow the creation of the Palestinian state, which Israel has supported since day 1 (the two-state solution was always rejected by Palestine even when the Israelis agreed on leaving 66% of the land to Palestine). It seems it has finally sinked in that Israel will not just be washed away and therefor even their worst enemies seem finally prepared to negotiate and come to compromises. So this is a good sign, now if Iran joins the Arab world in finally step by step accepting Israel as a neighbour then we are close to a long-term solution.
I do have to say I find it deeply sad that something as religion is dividing a region in such a deep way while religions in theory should be uniting and not dividing. If one cannot stand his neighbour simply because of a different religion, I think this mentality is very sad. But let's not forget that we should not judge any citizen for acts of their government, the people of Israel and Palestine will happily settle for a partition while the politicians ignore the needs of their people and continue the fight.
_________________
You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
(London After Midnight) |
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Mc_Jeff
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | Mc_Jeff wrote: | | Peace in the Middle East is a pipe dream until Islam begs for mercy. |
more like so long as two sets of idiots are both claiming divine will to a piece of worthless land.
is three generations deep considered to the point where the people are natural to the area? what i mean by that is: the people who lived in the area for hundreds of years are not the people in charge...the ones in charge are immigrants who moved there on account of their own manifest destiny.
i'm more curious than anything because for all intent and purposes, israel is a social experiment and nothing has been done like it before on such a scale in such an area....at least not without massive amounts of death on the level of genocide. |
"Genocide" from both sides, right? |
Only one side.
The attempts at genocide are unique to the Palestinians.
If the Israelis had even the slightest urge to commit genocide on the Palestinians, they already would've. Instead, they voluntarily gave up their own land for a pipe dream. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mc_Jeff wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | Mc_Jeff wrote: | | Peace in the Middle East is a pipe dream until Islam begs for mercy. |
more like so long as two sets of idiots are both claiming divine will to a piece of worthless land.
is three generations deep considered to the point where the people are natural to the area? what i mean by that is: the people who lived in the area for hundreds of years are not the people in charge...the ones in charge are immigrants who moved there on account of their own manifest destiny.
i'm more curious than anything because for all intent and purposes, israel is a social experiment and nothing has been done like it before on such a scale in such an area....at least not without massive amounts of death on the level of genocide. |
"Genocide" from both sides, right? |
Only one side.
The attempts at genocide are unique to the Palestinians.
If the Israelis had even the slightest urge to commit genocide on the Palestinians, they already would've. Instead, they voluntarily gave up their own land for a pipe dream. |
if the israelis tried to out and out wipe the palestinians off the map, there'd be worldwide uproar. that's why they don't do it in such an obvious way.
but you obviously have no understanding of nuances when it comes to politics or social oppression so i won't waste an effort here. you've got your views and nothing will ever change that even if you had witnessed something as graphic like the execution of nguyen van lem. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 7063
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| A majority of those of Jewish decent in our country vote democrat. I think he was trying to shore up his base as well as do his best with words to try and sweep the critics of his policy on Ahmadinejad talks under the rug. I'm sure the Knesset's taking these claims with a HUGE grain of salt. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 6521
Location: New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | A majority of those of Jewish decent in our country vote democrat. I think he was trying to shore up his base as well as do his best with words to try and sweep the critics of his policy on Ahmadinejad talks under the rug. I'm sure the Knesset's taking these claims with a HUGE grain of salt. |
aipac is pretty serious stuff.
and it doesn't matter anyways, israel has enough of their citizens in position of power within various parts of the government that they can still manipulate how they need to. |
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