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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7802
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: |
Why is it that some are open to gay marriage, yet claim that marriage as an institution has little or no value? If marriage has no meaning, why do the LGBT seek it like the golden fleece?
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Well, it is highly hypocritical, as you point out, but the reason they do it is to piss off conservatives, naturally.
You might be surprised at how much time and energy liberals devote to that one goal.
That's the real "golden fleece" to them. Pathetic.
See, they think it's an end unto itself -- that pissing off conservatives is some kind of victory,
and one to be celebrated and encouraged in their peers.
It's all about tearing down institutions and relations.
_________________
I shaved off my goatee so that my wife could read my facial expressions better. She feels much happier and closer to me now. (Just thought I'd share this advice for any other bearded members.) |
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sarolie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Why is it that some are open to gay marriage, yet claim that marriage as an institution has little or no value? If marriage has no meaning, why do the LGBT seek it like the golden fleece? |
Cause it's a human right, and it's discriminatory to dictate who is allowed that right. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Not necessarily. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7802
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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How is gay marriage a human right?
That claim doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it.
_________________
I shaved off my goatee so that my wife could read my facial expressions better. She feels much happier and closer to me now. (Just thought I'd share this advice for any other bearded members.) |
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sarolie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Not necessarily. |
| Ragtime wrote: | How is gay marriage a human right?
That claim doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
*Marriage is a right any two consenting adults have.
Wouldn't you feel discriminated against if it were illegal for you and your partner to get married?
The claim that it's wrong for two people to get married just cause they're the same gender doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
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helene
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | What is the gender binary? "Pansexual" makes it sound like you've got a whole pantheon to to choose from, when in fact there are only two human sexes. How are you different than bisexuals? |
there are people who are trans, intersex, gender queer... I know someone who is trans she is a female trapped in a male body. Despite the fact that she has a male body I call her by her female name and use female pronouns. (except for when we were in a class that she was not out in). |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The claim that it's wrong for two people to get married just cause they're the same gender doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
It is different and this difference must be duly acknowledged. Marriage is a privilege. Marriage is a is a privilege bestowed by society to those who are hopefully responsible enough for it.
Many are not responsible enough for marriage, marriage as it was meant to be. Hetero unions, so-called "marriages" are sometimes just a publicity stunt.
It is with the declibne of traditional values that marriage becomes cheapened, degraded, and devalued.
Thankfully there are still many couples who take their vows seriously and become stable families, pillars of the community.
What is the family, if noit the traditional nuclear model? Is it possible to uphold and protect family values w/o excluding anyone based on gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation?
I leave these questions to you, WrongPlanet. |
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Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 1924
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| sarolie wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Not necessarily. |
| Ragtime wrote: | How is gay marriage a human right?
That claim doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
*Marriage is a right any two consenting adults have.
Wouldn't you feel discriminated against if it were illegal for you and your partner to get married?
The claim that it's wrong for two people to get married just cause they're the same gender doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
-QFT. Sarolie wins at logic.
_________________
I am neurotypical - I just want to find out more about Asperger's Syndrome.
But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?
-Chever |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| monty wrote: | | oscuria wrote: |
The definition of marriage should not change.
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But it always has. Polygamy? Ok for Solomon, continued for a while and then faded out in Judaism, but stayed in Islam. Fraternal Polyandry? Long practiced in parts of the Himalayas - a women marries all the brothers in a family, and is taken care of if the husband dies. Suttee? A part of the idea of eternal marriage in parts of India - I think it is brutal, and am glad that some efforts are made to eliminate it. In feudal times, the lord of the manor had 'first-rights' to all young women - that was an accepted part of marriage, good that it changed. |
Oh no, that is not what I meant.
I understand the many problems which were found in archaic marriage practices. This however, did not change the fact that marriage as a whole was seen to fulfill the duties between men and women.
Honestly, who am i to refuse the desires of the people, whether it be to drown themselves in alcohol or to bury themselves with greed. It is up to them to change themselves. If two gay or lesbian couples want to be together, no one is refusing them unless the government itself is against the homosexuals. I have not said anything in my posts to demand that homosexual couples be made illegal. I already said as well that much should be done to accommodate them during certain circumstances. However, marriage should not be one of them.
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7802
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| sarolie wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Not necessarily. |
| Ragtime wrote: | How is gay marriage a human right?
That claim doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
*Marriage is a right any two consenting adults have.
Wouldn't you feel discriminated against if it were illegal for you and your partner to get married?
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You are employing a false equivalency. Gay marriage came about only over the last couple of years. Whereas, hetero marriage has been steadily occurring at least since history began being recorded. The two are neither equal nor comparable.
| sarolie wrote: |
The claim that it's wrong for two people to get married just cause they're the same gender doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
False equivalency will do that to you.
_________________
I shaved off my goatee so that my wife could read my facial expressions better. She feels much happier and closer to me now. (Just thought I'd share this advice for any other bearded members.) |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7802
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| helene wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | What is the gender binary? "Pansexual" makes it sound like you've got a whole pantheon to to choose from, when in fact there are only two human sexes. How are you different than bisexuals? |
there are people who are trans, intersex, gender queer... I know someone who is trans she is a female trapped in a male body. Despite the fact that she has a male body I call her by her female name and use female pronouns. (except for when we were in a class that she was not out in). |
There are feminine men, but to say someone is "a female trapped in a male body" is something that cannot be proved,
and since there are no starkly-observable distinctions between male and female other than the sex organs, absolutely anyone
can make the claim to be one gender trapped in the body of another gender, and it is not evidensible by any means.
A feminine man is a man all the same. To say he is "a female inside" is something approaching mythological depiction.
Females have vaginas. Therefore, you can't be a female in a male body.
_________________
I shaved off my goatee so that my wife could read my facial expressions better. She feels much happier and closer to me now. (Just thought I'd share this advice for any other bearded members.) |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 7802
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Phagocyte wrote: | | sarolie wrote: | | slowmutant wrote: | | Not necessarily. |
| Ragtime wrote: | How is gay marriage a human right?
That claim doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
*Marriage is a right any two consenting adults have.
Wouldn't you feel discriminated against if it were illegal for you and your partner to get married?
The claim that it's wrong for two people to get married just cause they're the same gender doesn't get any less bizarre the more I hear it. |
-QFT. Sarolie wins at logic. |
I didn't realize political correctness was the same thing as logic.
_________________
I shaved off my goatee so that my wife could read my facial expressions better. She feels much happier and closer to me now. (Just thought I'd share this advice for any other bearded members.) |
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sarolie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | It's all about tearing down institutions and relations. |
Nope, just building new ones  .
| Ragtime wrote: | | You are employing a false equivalency. Gay marriage came about only over the last couple of years. Whereas, hetero marriage has been steadily occurring at least since history began being recorded. The two are neither equal nor comparable. |
So? Women almost everywhere used to not be allowed to vote. Are people of different gender's freedoms not equal or comparable?
| slowmutant wrote: | | Marriage is a is a privilege bestowed by society to those who are hopefully responsible enough for it. |
And you're saying you have no hope in the responsibility of homosexuals?
| slowmutant wrote: | | Is it possible to uphold and protect family values w/o excluding anyone based on gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation? |
What do you mean by "family" values? It's impossible to uphold moral values without excluding anyone.
| Phagocyte wrote: | | -QFT. Sarolie wins at logic. |
Thanks Phagocyte.
| oscuria wrote: | | This however, did not change the fact that marriage as a whole was seen to fulfill the duties between men and women. |
lol What would these duties be?
Btw, oscuria, I've responded to a previous post of yours and I'd appreciate it if you'd respond back.
| Ragtime wrote: | | I didn't realize political correctness was the same thing as logic. |
It is. It's only logical that everyone be given the same rights. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sarolie wrote: | | Btw, oscuria, I've responded to a previous post of yours and I'd appreciate it if you'd respond back. |
Honestly, there is nothing that I can say which wasn't said in my previous post found above.
I'd be willing to answer other questions however.
_________________
I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8734
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Before we grant someone a right, we must first ascertain if it is a right or in fact a privelidge. It cannot be a right just because you desire it to be. All people have the right to trial and due process within the legal system, straight and gay alike. We all have the right to religion, free speech, and free association. But to marriage? |
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