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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4957
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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I hate to say it geesmom, but your last post was pretty insulting. Emoal6 is certainly right in that nothing is going to make things perfect and you really DO have an obligation to make the best of it.
Mothers tend to overreact at EVERYTHING and autism, even if it is VERY HFA can just make things seem worse.
Emoal6 was acting pretty civil, and there was no reason to insult him. That is especially true since he really hasn't shown any sign of deficit, etc....
BTW the best way for a mother to find out how to handle a child with autism is to ask a person that went through it. I, for one, can give you some pretty objective views. Of course, people are different, and Autism presents differently, so different people may see things in different ways, etc... But if you come here with preconceived ideas, it just won't work out.
I hope you do what is best for the child. Good luck. |
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Geesmom
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | I hate to say it geesmom, but your last post was pretty insulting. |
The hypocrisy here is staggering quite frankly.
...and I wasn't being insulting. I was being honest, just like him. My son doesn't have what seem to be emo's comorbidities, so I don't think his "advice" is very helpful. |
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Emoal6
Deinonychus
Joined: May 16, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 300
Location: phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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I never said anything about my comorbidities being the reason for whats happend here, or why my life was so bad, YOU ASSUME that(makes an ass out of you and me ya know)! Im comorbid because the events happened, not the other way around you twit! I never thought to myself, I wanna be post traumatic. Its just what happened in life.
But you fail to realize that an autistic child is going to freak out from time to time, and you're not gonna understand why. Hell we dont even know why sometimes! It just happens, You just meltdown. Everything just piles up and senses magnify even more and then stress multiplies everything and BAM, you're having a meltdown. That has nothing to do with my tragic upbringing, that has to do with asperger's syndrome.
If I remember correctly, you said your child was diagnosed. So I offered the advice that this was normal activity. That you should worry less about it and learn to cope. You're the adult, they're the child. Id expect more rationality from you.
Oh wait, its cause you're at "your wits end". My bad, i forgot that your child has more knowledge on whats wrong in his head than you do! And in fact, I must have forgotten that Im an aspie, and Ive dealt with everything your child will 95% likly deal with. Your kid will ONLY be LUCKY if you do things just right.
But you just wont do your research. You wanna come in here GUNS BLAZING when they're FILLED WITH BLANKS. Ma'am, Im sorry you just dont know what you're talking about. You're not living with asperger's syndrome. You didnt even know it existed untill you noticed something "wrong" with your child. Meanwhile I never knew there was a name for it, but I always knew there was something different with me(not until the military at least).
This is that name, the one your child has been labled with. Deal with it! Horrifiying future isnt it? Try living it! For your own sake, start venturing into the deeper forums on this site. Go to the haven and see what those kids are dealing with on a daily basis. Its not one. Its not 100, there are almost 20,000 members here now, and i guarantee the majority are afflicted and not just a family member. You see the horror stories, of how they're treated, in all aspects of life. You see the future of your son.
And it gets worse. You have an older son too(again, if I remember correctly), so he'll be held back as well because of his brother's deficiencies. People will "give him hell" cause his brother isnt that "quick in the head". His movements are awkward. The older brother then has to make a decision. He can abandon his brother for friends and relationships. Or he can suffer the slings and arrows of oppression by protecting him.
You just wont face reality for some reason. I'd hope for more rationality out of a parent, more realism instead of idealism. You have this sick thought that because im autistic I cant possibly be intelligent or correct. News flash dear, everything you have now, was created by an aspie(9 out of 10). You'd have to have that kind of addiction to your work, that kind of eccentricity. People like einstein and da vinci, newton.
You have nothing without these men and they were just like me(aspie), not you(nuerotypical). They cared not about social expectations, only the money they needed to feed thier loved ones and to follow thier obsession. Your problems are only because this sick society has made popularity the game above all(his reactions wouldnt matter if they were popular ones(aka you liked them)).
Maybe back in the day you grew up it MIGHT be different for him. There used to be a day when intelligence was king. When scientists were marveled for thier genius. Philosophers were treated like superheroes. Now its the fashion model and the rockstar, the gang banger and the yuppy lawyer.
Aint talking money then your money dont matter. Your son will not be appreciated for who he is inside, but what he wears on the outside. How he looks and how well he speaks. Impression. We dont do well with impressions, unless you're impressed with the gifts we possess. |
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gbollard
cosmic hobo
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3333
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a magnet in this forum that keeps pulling it off-topic and into the realm of mud-slinging?
Instead of accusing eachother, why not try to work the problem - in nice language.
When parenting aspie children, there are a few things that need to be changed. Some are on the parent's side ... actually, most are. Some are on the child's side, there are some hard lessons that they have to learn - it's unfortunate but that's the way it is.
Parents need to try to address the special needs of their children. They need to learn to live with their children "as they are" and they need to learn how to head off trouble before it starts. Children have to learn that not everything can be had... that it's not always going to be their turn and that they can't always have what they want.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4957
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | Is there a magnet in this forum that keeps pulling it off-topic and into the realm of mud-slinging?
Instead of accusing eachother, why not try to work the problem - in nice language. |
I think Emoal6 jumped the gun, and assumed, and geesmom has now resorted to the same. It now has little hope of accomplishing anything. 8-( |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: | Is there a magnet in this forum that keeps pulling it off-topic and into the realm of mud-slinging?
Instead of accusing eachother, why not try to work the problem - in nice language.
When parenting aspie children, there are a few things that need to be changed. Some are on the parent's side ... actually, most are. Some are on the child's side, there are some hard lessons that they have to learn - it's unfortunate but that's the way it is.
Parents need to try to address the special needs of their children. They need to learn to live with their children "as they are" and they need to learn how to head off trouble before it starts. Children have to learn that not everything can be had... that it's not always going to be their turn and that they can't always have what they want. |
Now, that is sensible advice 
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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Geesmom
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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emo, it's probably not worth your time to respond to me since I have no interest in reading your posts. Unfortunatley, your contrasted experiences are not applicable to my son who has a very loving and supportive family. Emo needs to work on emo.
gbollard, I realize that parents should and need to be sensitive towards their children's special needs. My family is trying to create a balance in how much we induldge his behaviors and when we can and cannot accomodate them. There has to be certain boundaries or else I won't be doing him any favors in allowing him to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. That is not how the world works and he has to live in this world and he can.
On a tangential note, because I think this can be applied to life as well as this thread, just because someone has Aspergers doesn't mean they are allowed to do and act as they please, especially children. Even Aspergers children need boundaries. I think a parent would be doing a great disservice by not teaching their children socially acceptable behavior so long as they appreciatie and understand the unique needs of their children. Now my son is extremely high functioning so I know his limits and his capabilities and what he can intellectualize and what he can't, but I CANNOT always predict his behaviors. Nobody can nor should anybody be expected to. Most the time I can, but sometimes it just comes out of left field.
For example, we went to a toy store a few weeks ago and I declined the plastic bag. We were only steps from our car - thought I'd go green. I had no idea of knowing this would set "G" off into a world of emotional turmoil. To him, it just wasn't right. Buying merchandise means you get a bag. I was already halfway home when he decided that life couldn't go on if we didn't go back and get a bag for the merchandise, but I cannot be held captive by his behavior and sooner or later, he's going to have to learn to live with dissappointments. My job is to give him the tools to cope with these situations and yes, it can be frustrating and no, I'm not going to apologize for a very human response to sometimes frustrating situations, but "G" is loved and he knows it and has a very supportive family. It should not be automatically assumed that all parents are disrespectful, unsupportive and unappreciative of their (Aspergers) children, but that doesn't mean you cease to parent and teach because your child has Aspergers. (This part isn't directed at you gbollard, it's meant as a generalization.) |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Well, we have our routines and I think it wouldn't have hurt to have gone back and got a bag if your son was so upset. If not that, then at least explaining to him why you didn't get a bag (wanting to conserve resources) would have been best.
I know aspies can't do all they want but it's a confusing world for us and the least you can do for your boy is explain why if you decide to deviate from your usual routine.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
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Geesmom
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | Well, we have our routines and I think it wouldn't have hurt to have gone back and got a bag if your son was so upset. If not that, then at least explaining to him why you didn't get a bag (wanting to conserve resources) would have been best.
I know aspies can't do all they want but it's a confusing world for us and the least you can do for your boy is explain why if you decide to deviate from your usual routine. |
You are assuming that I didn't explain to him why we weren't going to go back and get a bag.
Plus, a 5 year old isn't going to appreciate "conserving resources". LOL.
No, we couldn't go back because we had already left and sometimes things don't go as planned and it would cost us money and time to back-track. We were already 20 miles away from there, on our way to a fair in another county. This was not a practical solution to turn around and go back and no, I'm not going to live my life in fear and anxiety and making his brother miss a county fair because we have to back-track 20 miles for a plastic bag. He needs tools in order to cope with these unexpected outcomes.
Now, I'm sure that everybody will think I'm just so abusive because I didn't go back for the bag, but I'm just not going to accomodate every single of his desires. It's impossible and it does him absolutely no good to teach him that we are willing to turn around and back-track 20 miles if he doesn't get the outcome he expected. I'm not going to raise him to believe that because I couldn't live with myself if I took that easy, passive way of parenting. There are goign to be melt-downs, if I can prevent them, I will, but I will not have his brother miss a county fair to go back and get a plastic bag. There is more than one person in this family and we all have to do things that we don't want or like. Tomorrow it could be his brother's turn or my turn. |
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gbollard
cosmic hobo
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3333
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Geesmom wrote: | | There has to be certain boundaries or else I won't be doing him any favors in allowing him to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. That is not how the world works and he has to live in this world and he can. |
Absolutely.
I'm not going to hound you about not going back to get a bag. I believe that you did the right thing.
It is good however to recognise the problem, apologise to your child and (if possible) make it up to them. It is also important to make them responsible for assisting/communicating their wishes, since what you did was not an explicit denial of his request, but an oversight.
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A good example;
My wife went and had a coffee and took the boys with her. She gave them something to eat but they raised hell anyway. In particular, complaining about their babycino.
She came home and told me about their "dreadful behaviour" and I explained that whenever I go to that particular coffee shop, I get them one (since they're free with your coffee). My wife didn't know that - how could she be expected to know it since it's a "dad" thing?
I explained it to her, and to the kids. They both needed the lesson.
The kids learnt that mum doesn't read minds and that thngs that dad does aren't always the same as things that mum does.
My wife learnt that the kids aren't necessarily being "naughty" - sometimes it depends on your point of view. They felt that they were being unjustly punished.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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Nari
Emu Egg
Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| wow. i ended up skipping several pages of this thread. there's alot of anger there. or...maybe passion? we all obviously love our kids so much. all i can suggest to the original Q of 'what can i do' in regard to the tantrums is- a book i got called '1, 2, 3 magic' by thomas phelan. its a 'routine' that is simple and easy and, it really helped for my child. give it a go. it it help, great. if not. hang in there and keep looking. im in australia so unfortunaltely i cant help u with any local contacts (i cant even find them in my OWN region) |
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Pandora
Cat Lady
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 4684
Location: Townsville
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Geesmom wrote: | | Pandora wrote: | Well, we have our routines and I think it wouldn't have hurt to have gone back and got a bag if your son was so upset. If not that, then at least explaining to him why you didn't get a bag (wanting to conserve resources) would have been best.
I know aspies can't do all they want but it's a confusing world for us and the least you can do for your boy is explain why if you decide to deviate from your usual routine. |
You are assuming that I didn't explain to him why we weren't going to go back and get a bag.
Plus, a 5 year old isn't going to appreciate "conserving resources". LOL.
No, we couldn't go back because we had already left and sometimes things don't go as planned and it would cost us money and time to back-track. We were already 20 miles away from there, on our way to a fair in another county. This was not a practical solution to turn around and go back and no, I'm not going to live my life in fear and anxiety and making his brother miss a county fair because we have to back-track 20 miles for a plastic bag. He needs tools in order to cope with these unexpected outcomes.
Now, I'm sure that everybody will think I'm just so abusive because I didn't go back for the bag, but I'm just not going to accomodate every single of his desires. It's impossible and it does him absolutely no good to teach him that we are willing to turn around and back-track 20 miles if he doesn't get the outcome he expected.
I'm not going to raise him to believe that because I couldn't live with myself if I took that easy, passive way of parenting. There are goign to be melt-downs, if I can prevent them, I will, but I will not have his brother miss a county fair to go back and get a plastic bag. There is more than one person in this family and we all have to do things that we don't want or like. Tomorrow it could be his brother's turn or my turn. |
Well, I hope you explained that going back for the bag would make you too late for the fair. I'd also suggest not springing changes unexpectedly on your lad unless there is absolutely no alternative because I detect a note of punitiveness that isn't too pleasant.
_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon
I am banned |
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Geesmom
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| gbollard wrote: |
I'm not going to hound you about not going back to get a bag. I believe that you did the right thing.
It is good however to recognise the problem, apologise to your child and (if possible) make it up to them. It is also important to make them responsible for assisting/communicating their wishes, since what you did was not an explicit denial of his request, but an oversight. |
Thank you, but I'm curious, how old are your children? I ask because my 5 year old has trouble with abstract requests or thought processes. This would be an abstract request to him. I did try to explain to him that he would have had to let me know when we were closer to the store and that I cannot always anticipate what will make him sad and that he needs to tell me when something is not right when the "bad" thing happens, so that I can try to help him.
He didn't really get it. All he sees is no bag, not right, how can I not see that. Most of the time, this is entirely charming and unique, but sometimes, it happens when you can't possibly antipate it (who would have guessed a missing bag would be and when no remedies can really be offered to effectively satisfy him).
Interestingly enough, his Behavioral Neurologist insists that "G" must learn how to cope with sudden change through social stories, claiming that his ability to learn tools in order to adapt will provide him with the most opportunities. He said as he gets older, he'll have the ability to intellectualize abstract thoughts even if he doesn't understand them. |
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Geesmom
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Pandora wrote: | | I'd also suggest not springing changes unexpectedly on your lad unless there is absolutely no alternative because I detect a note of punitiveness that isn't too pleasant. |
Uh, huh. Yep...because I declined the bag to make my baby miserable. You got me!
May I ask, how do you manage to thwart all disappointment in YOUR own children? Did your infant never cry, not even once, were you just that good? Now, that's the kind of secret magic bullet you should be sharing with the rest of us! |
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Emoal6
Deinonychus
Joined: May 16, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 300
Location: phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Geesmom, I think the truth of the matter is, you had a horrible mother as a teacher! And you then have your own troubles, so you can't accept advice from other people. At least not advice you "dont agree with". You assume this community is ignorant, that it has no experience in what we speak. We in fact have more than you, because we've been the child, not just the parent! You have refused to even do any research to understand the errors of your ways.
See, It wasnt just me who noticed what you are. You're an inconsiderate mother. You want him to do as you will, nothing else. No parent is perfect, but the best are the ones who do AS MUCH AS THEY CAN for their child. They realize all they needed to do better in thier own life, was maybe a little more consitency from thier parents. The kids who end up talking to their moms and dads about thier problems, are the ones who have NO DOUBT thier parents will do the best they can to help them. You show a lack of consitency in caring for your child's well being. He has asperger's syndrome, and thats NOT HIS FAULT. You and your husband can look in the mirror for the answer to who's fault it was.
You are a misinformed woman, who just cant believe she's not doing the best she can. Neither could my mom. Neither could MOST parents of the 1000s of aspies on this site. If my father didnt die, I would have been better taken care of. I may have had a better chance, because my father knew there was something different with me. My mom couldnt see through the similarities we had. You are using your past, your upbringing, as the teaching tools you parent with.
People in the 60's and 70s in america had NO CLUE WHAT AUTISM WAS. So what was ACCEPTABLE as parenting then, is UNACCEPTABLE now. You live in this new millenium where children deserve the right to be happy and safe, at least at home. The boy is 5, he doesnt need to be broken yet. Let him live by his rules until they effect someone other than yourself and your family. Wait till the kid is in SCHOOL, 1st grade at least. You seem like the woman who told her kid santa isnt real already! Whats next, you gonna give him coal for his 8th christmas, call him a devil child cause he's different?
Deal with it, you had a child who is autistic, you have to cater to his needs. Its the best way to train him for the real world. You explain more and more after everytime, soon enough we get it. It doesnt happen on the first try, rarely happens we get it on the second. His mind is barely developing. Yes, he can understand words and letters, but he cant understand what you understand by them. He has a DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION. Whether you like it or not, soon enough you will learn what I have been saying, if you have any intelligence at least. |
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