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mariposa
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 43
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 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: AS Parent Needs Help from NT Parents- Help Me Help my kids |
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I signed my kids up for a for a community theater group-- supposed to be therapeutic. And the kids had been begging
for two years to try out for a play.
They have not been able to break in, socially with the other cast members. There was a cast party last night at a local pizza place. I was hoping that each would have at least ONE child to talk to, and that maybe there would be an adult who I might be able to get to know better- at least have a conversation with.
My son did find one boy who sat with him for a couple of minutes-- my daughter found NO ONE who even acknowledged her.
It was difficult to know how to get a conversation going. When we got there most of the people were already at tables together, and their tables were full. My daughter has had one or two girls who were friendly with her from this group, but they were sitting with a couple of girls who have been cold and rude to her, so she was afraid to even say hi.
I was so uncomfortable, I hated every moment of it.
There was one woman, who goes out of her way to be nice to me, and she whisked by my table a couple of times and said things to me like, "This is a really good deal-- this place, isn't it?"
I had no idea how to respond to such statements.
Previously, at another party at a restaurant, this same woman said to me, "you should stop by our table and say hi."
I was unsure what she meant. Why would I stop by her table and say hi? We already said hi when I saw her in the washroom. Can someone tell me what that meant and what I should have done?
How could I have helped my children in this situation?
It took a good thirty minutes to be able to leave this situation, because I knew I could not leave without acknowledging a group of women who I was acquainted with. They were seated in a booth and there was no room for me to try to join them. They have been friendly and kind to me, so I could not leave without acknowledging them, although they were in a conversation with each other. SO finally, after thirty minutes I decided to try to look happy to see them and to ask them if they thought they had already worked hard enough or if they were going to work backstage for the rest of the run of this play.
But it was hard for me, because then I was unsure how to close this conversation and leave.
I felt like I was delaying their ability to get back to what they had been talking about amongst each other, but that if I hadn't stopped by to say something then it would look as if I wanted to ignore them.
How would YOU (NT's ONLY please) have handled this? How would your NT kids have broken into the social circles of this group? How would you have interacted with the other adults?
PLEASE help. I find this aspect of parenting to be toturous. |
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jat
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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This can be torturous for NT's too. Sometimes these groups are made up of people who know each other either from the time they were kids, or from the time their children were little. They already socialize outside of these environments, and breaking in can be excruciating.
In the future, it can help for your kids to make plans to go "with" another child: even if they aren't physically going with that child, they are arranging to meet up with them at a specific time, and sit together.
It's a shame the party was a sit-down thing. These things are much more appropriate, socially, when the kids aren't seated at tables - when they can circulate and interact with each other in a more fluid way. If you have the opportunity to have input before any parties are planned, you might want to suggest such a setting. |
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mollyandbobsmom
Blue Jay
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: upper midwest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| even as a nt parent I avoid these situations. no one is comfortable at these events. is there anyone the kids have felt comfortable with that you could pair them with in the future? like the buddy system. |
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mariposa
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: kids had friends who have dumped them in this group |
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My daughter was friends with one of the girls from first grade on. THis other girl is extremely socially adept and has always been popular. Recently, since fourth grade, she has become aware of the negative effect of being seen with my daughter has on her reputation (ok I am assuming this is the case) and she has stopped even acknowledging my daughter's presence-- doesn't even say Hi back to my daughter if my daughter says hello to her. It is horrible. THEN because this girl is a social leader, the other girls follow suit.
We are planning to join a different theater group in the Fall, but I was hoping that at least one or two of the kids would warm up to my daughter.
this is soooo painful. I can't even begin to say how painful it is, to watch my kids ignored. |
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mariposa
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: What does "Stop by my table and say Hi mean?" |
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| Can the NT's here explain to me what it means when someone says, "Stop by my table and say Hi" when we run into each other at a restaurant. What does that mean? Is it expected really to say more than "hi?" Is there supposed to be one or two other sentences per person in this type of interaction? If so, can you give me some sample sentences to say? |
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jat
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: What does "Stop by my table and say Hi mean?" |
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| mariposa wrote: | | Can the NT's here explain to me what it means when someone says, "Stop by my table and say Hi" when we run into each other at a restaurant. What does that mean? Is it expected really to say more than "hi?" Is there supposed to be one or two other sentences per person in this type of interaction? If so, can you give me some sample sentences to say? |
I might be a bit cynical here, but I think it tends to be a way of appearing warm and welcoming without having to really put yourself out. It puts the burden of the social interaction on the other person. Then, if you don't go over, they can feel like they at least invited you, and you didn't take them up on it, so you were the one who wasn't being friendly. If you do go over, you feel all awkward, because you are one person approaching a whole group of people, and you don't really have anything to say.
I think the best way to handle something like this is to go over to the table, and say "Hi! How are you doing?" Then you can follow up with something innocuous like "Isn't it great that they have a closing party for the kids like this?" or "Did your son/daughter enjoy the group?" They'll say something like "Yes, they've been doing it since they were two months old." You can say, "Mine did too, but this was their first year. Maybe I'll see you next year" - as you start walking away. Have someplace you're heading toward, like to get another drink, food (or if it's all served at your table) the bathroom!
If your kids also need to get out of there, you can have a plan of someplace that "you have to be" so you have to leave early. Pretend that you just had to show up because none of you wanted to miss it, but there was a prior engagement/family obligation that you all had to be at. |
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mysterious_misfit
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: What does "Stop by my table and say Hi mean?" |
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| mariposa wrote: | | Can the NT's here explain to me what it means when someone says, "Stop by my table and say Hi" when we run into each other at a restaurant. What does that mean? Is it expected really to say more than "hi?" Is there supposed to be one or two other sentences per person in this type of interaction? If so, can you give me some sample sentences to say? |
I'm not NT, but maybe she wanted to introduce you to her friends? |
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schleppenheimer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 970
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think jat really answered your question well.
We were just in this situation in my household -- son is in a theatre group, and it's our first year, and the other parents have had their kids in the group for years, the other kids often belong to the same neighborhood, go to school together, etc. I think we have much of the same situation you have, and like you, I HATE these things -- the socializing that is expected drives me crazy, and I'm NT. BUT, having said that, it has been very beneficial for my son. Just the acting has worked out well, in terms of his learning social skills. When the play is over and the cast party begins, is my son on the outside looking in? Yes. But, little by little, his skills improve. Maybe next year he will be able to make closer friends with some of the boys.
I do think that it is difficult having TWO kids in the program, and more difficult in some ways with your girl. Girls in theater can be SO CLIQUISH, so uninviting and unfriendly. But, many unusual kids find their way to theater groups, so eventually, I do think your daughter may find another girl to make friends with.
The hardest thing to teach my son is how much he should find a friend to sit with, eat with, socialize with. I can't quite figure out how much he should follow people around, trying to make sure he sits with them. At the cast party, we got lucky, and maybe three different kids socialized with him at different times. When I came to pick him up, he was by himself, playing on one of the arcade games. I've come to accept this -- he socialized enough, and will often be alone by the end of a party or social event, because he has probably reached his "social" limit and cannot do it anymore. So far, people accept him relatively well, and I have learned to not hope for more than that.
Kris |
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rachel46
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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UGH! I'm an NT mom and am the worlds worst at this stuff! I wish I could help but I have no idea how to do it either. You just muddle through it sometimes and then breathe a sigh of relief when it's over.
Small talk: "How's the family?" "How have you been?", etc. is tortorous to me - I really do care how people are but once they have replied "Fine" then what do you say?
I read a book about this subject once and the author (don't remember the name?) said people love to talk about themselves so ask lots of questions. It does work but I probably look foolish because all I do is interrogate people so I don't have to any of the talking!!
I think practice before any situation like this is a good idea- if you know who might be there try to think of relevant things you could ask or bring up.
"Stop by my table and say Hi" is similar "Call me -we'll do lunch" -it's just something people say like "Have a good day" -they may not mean it but it is sort of a way to end the conversation.
Ending a conversation is tough esp. if you're stuck with a very talkative person. If my son is not within my view I say "Excuse me, but I really need to go find my son" or if there is food involved say "Excuse me, I need to go get something else to drink." If we are ready to leave the event we mostly use the "We really need to get going - we need to get home and feed the dogs (which is not a total fabrication -we do have 2 dogs)
Good for you for getting your kids involved and trying - I am NT and find it extremely hard to break into already formed social circles. We have had a little success but it's usually one person at a time and with my (and my son's) limited social talents painfully slow.
You really just never know who you might click with so you just keep trying and hoping for the best. |
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nlj
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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When someone says "Stop by and say hi" - yes, it's more than just saying hi. It means to come over and have a conversation - usually about "light" stuff - otherwise known as small talk.
If you don't know what to say - ask a person questions:
- How is your job/school going?
- How are you liking the weather?
- I really like the food here. What did you order?
You can also talk about upcoming community events such as a fair or a parade.
If someone makes a comment to you, but doesn't form a question - try to be agreeable - or polite. If they say they like a restaurant, find something specific you like about the restaurant and mention it.
For example:
NT: "I just love this restaurant. It's a great deal, don't you think?"
AS: "Yes, and my waiter is really nice too."
Finally, notice what other people say and copy them - not word for word. But watch people and then imitate them later. Practice at home. You can write down ideas of things to talk about - or draw pictures on index cards. Use them to practice - even carry them in your purse or pocket for when you get nervous. |
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mariposa
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Thanks to everyone who replied |
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Thanks to all of you for your insights. I was at first confused that there was so much variety and speculation on the part of NT's about what "stop by my table and say hi" meant. One person said that she didn't really mean it, that it was a way of putting the social burden on me, and then several others offered speculations along the lines of an invitation for brief small talk. At first I didn't know who was right. Now, after some reflection, it has ocurred to me that maybe they all could be right--- that she could have meant any of those things-- and that is where the unspoken aspect of language would come in. So probably socially competent NT's would be able to automatically size up of the situation, based on body language and eye movements, etc., and would be able to make inferences about what the invitation really meant.
Thanks to all of you. You have really helped a lot. |
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beentheredonethat
Grouchy Old Man
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Takes a little time |
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I was in a theater group from the time I was 5 until the time I was 25. We all knew each other. We had all been there for years. Yes, some people were able to break in, but thinking about it, it wasn't a very easy process. Besides, in a theater group, the social interaction is not in the cast. It's on the stage crew.
Skipping ahead:
There was the theater, and then there were three highschools in town with their own drama programs. There weren't very many people on the school crews who weren't also on our crew. As a matter of fact, when they needed extra people, someone in the group would say "hey, Paley needs someone to shift scenes, what are you doing tomorrow night?"
But the very same group was a disaster for my son. They expected him to be me. Which, of course, he's not. Also, they don't do things the same way anymore, and when I was at this particular theater (anyone who knows what the school abbreviation I used above means will know where I was) They were a "total" activity. Half a dozen of us all but lived there. And there was an older drama group, and anyone in the children's group, usually worked over at the teen group, teen or not.
I've noticed, in watching theater groups, that (as I said) the social interaction is on the crew. There is something very leveling about everyone out on a summer evening scraping paint off the flats from the last show so they can be reused in the next one.
But maybe those days are gone. We had some awfully quiet people in that group, and some who hated loud noises, and some who never looked up while they talked. Three of four of those kids were famous actors later in life, but they were the same people, and one or two of them became college professors. And we all went out for pizza together, and cooked up mischief together, and never gave it another thought. It's kinda weird, after you've been working with someone for several hours, to really think about "social protocol." You just all go out and have pizza, and there's no question about who is invited or included.
Maybe things have changed (at this theater they did) but there are still groups like that around.
Keep trying.
Beentheredonethat
Palo Alto Children's theater, 1949 to 1965 |
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Tortuga
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: kids had friends who have dumped them in this group |
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| mariposa wrote: | My daughter was friends with one of the girls from first grade on. THis other girl is extremely socially adept and has always been popular. Recently, since fourth grade, she has become aware of the negative effect of being seen with my daughter has on her reputation (ok I am assuming this is the case) and she has stopped even acknowledging my daughter's presence-- doesn't even say Hi back to my daughter if my daughter says hello to her. It is horrible. THEN because this girl is a social leader, the other girls follow suit.
We are planning to join a different theater group in the Fall, but I was hoping that at least one or two of the kids would warm up to my daughter.
this is soooo painful. I can't even begin to say how painful it is, to watch my kids ignored. |
I recall losing quite a few friends when I entered the fifth grade. It seems like girls splinter off into different groups at that age. That's actually very normal for girls. I would tell your daughter that there are other people out there to be friends with. The less you try to break into a social group, the more invitations you get to join that group....that's kind of ironic, but sometimes being aloof helps.
I think you probably did every right, given the circumstances. I'm NT, but most social situations don't work out for me either. I find it difficult to make friends. I mostly watch other women talking and wonder how they get along the way they do (yes, i'm 100% NT...but introverted). You did the right thing by acknowledging the women you knew and saying good-bye to them. There's nothing else you could have done.
I would keep looking into other social activities. |
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nlj
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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beentheredonethat makes a great point.
i was involved in improv theater when i lived in DC. when i moved back home to nc, i got involved in the local improv theater, but it was very different. socializing there was madness for me, an NT. it's so bad, that i just dropped out of improv (which I LOVE) altogether. it just wasn't worth it.
don't assume that everyone else is socializing well. many NTs socialize horribly - (playing games, power grabs, etc).
in a good social group, you'll find it easier to communicate. |
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