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Anemone
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 659
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there are material resources, and then there are human resources. There are lots of material resources to go around, but the people power is in somewhat short supply. If you want UN peacekeepers, good luck. I don't think there are enough to go around.
It's one thing to give people money or food, or to pay them to do something they understand. It's another thing entirely to get them to understand the issue enough in the first place so that they can do something effective.
And I think these women need police protection, not cash. |
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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1278
Location: West of the Great Divide
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not justifying apathy, but I do have a concern.
I thought it was great when Clinton sent the US military into Somalia to establish order. Countless innocent people were suffering as a result of a squabble between rival warlords. It turned out to be a disaster that accomplished essentially nothing.
The book "Black Hawk Down" discussed some topics that were left out of the subsequent action movie. One passage I remember. When the locals were asked if they wanted peace, everybody said yes. When asked if they wanted peace if it meant sharing power with the rival clan, everybody said no.
Still, it seems unjustifiable to turn away when things like this are happening. There must be some kind of a lesson there, but I'm not sure what it is.
_________________
Folks said
His family were all dead
Planet crumbled but Superman he forced himself to carry on
Forget Krypton and keep going.
-Crash Test Dummies
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Men and women are in disharmony, therefore the human race is in disharmony. Can we point to any past time and say it was better then? NO, antiquity was definitely worse in terms of gender relations. See, there are pockets of sanity and pockets of madness spread out all over the globe. Africa is definitely a pocket of madness, yet within this madness there are flickers of sanity.
Do you get me? |
hmn. . . maybe, a little bit.
My own take is that disharmony isn't specifically between the genders. . . I think that, particularly in the most powerful (industrialized) nations of the world, people in general are very alienated from one another. . . and even from their own lives. Because the majority of individuals seek life partners among the opposite sex, there appears to be greater disharmony there.
I don't see any "pockets" as large as a continent. .just, there are places where things are better (much of europe) and worse (much of africa). Similarly, I don't see it as so much about madness and sanity.
it is much harder to be sane when you don't have enough to eat, and much harder to have enough to eat when you are not sane. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| CanyonWind wrote: | Apologies for double posting.
| Jainaday wrote: | To be fair,
a) I think you're being rediculous -- not in identifying women as perpetrators of evil, but in comparing. . . what. . . child abuse? maliciousness? With a brutal, intimately invasive, and extended attack on an entire region.
I've heard the charge that our culture is "feminized"--that much of what is wrong with it is the fault of women having too much power, and men compensating by becoming either "hypermasculine" or wimps.
My comment was an offhanded response to this. I feel that if women really held the greater amount of power in this world, preventing rape (for which, regardless of who is attacking, they are at a substantially higher risk) would be a higher priority. |
I haven't noticed any correlation between gender and character.
The problem with those in power is the character of those in power. I see no significant difference between Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Hillary Clinton, Condoleezza Rice, and their male counterparts.
I'm not sure it's meaningful to quantify suffering, because suffering is an individual experience. I don't think it's meaningful to say that Stalin was worse than Ted Bundy, although Stalin killed far more people. |
I wasn't refering to individuals in power so much as priorities, wider movements in society and culture.
As far as quantifying suffering. . . there is a legitimate philosophical basis for that approach. . . but one way or another, you have to decide where to put your resources. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6853
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | it is much harder to be sane when you don't have enough to eat, and much harder to have enough to eat when you are not sane. |
I wasn't referring to the actual mental health of people, or any lack thereof. The sanity and madness here is used a metaphor for their situation. It is "madness" that human beings are brutalized in this way by other human beings, with no apparent call to justice. Who can speak to the mental state of the victims or the aggressors? |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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I was referring to wider situations myself. Hunger is not an individual thing. Thats why economics is remotely useful for predicting anything at all.
And yes, I do think that it is literal madness that human beings are constantly brutalized in this way, but in my country to be "well adjusted" means accepting that there's nothing you can do about it and not caring too much. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6853
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Jainaday, I noticed that you're in Utah and are "nomadic" What does that mean? Are you FLDS? |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Jainaday, I noticed that you're in Utah and are "nomadic" What does that mean? Are you FLDS? |
ROFL. . . 
ok. . .
sorry, had to catch my breath.
I've never lived in the same place for very long. That's why I say nomadic.
Utah is where I'm presently living, and probably will be for awhile. Actually, I've been in this state for a strangely long time. ..
*sigh*
stupid cheep tuition. . . reeling me in.
Ok. . sorry.. .
don't know enormously much about the FLDS, but I'm fairly sure that I'd be raising babies instead of studying physics, and that I would not have nearly so much access to be banging about the interweb. They're pretty isolationist. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6853
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes, they are. Until the Feds bust in and conduct a raid, that is.
What do you think should happen to al those women and children?
That SOB Warren Jeffs is behind bars, thankfully. But should the sect/cult be dismantled like a cheap transistor radio?
Thoughts? |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Yes, they are. Until the Feds bust in and conduct a raid, that is.
What do you think should happen to al those women and children?
That SOB Warren Jeffs is behind bars, thankfully. But should the sect/cult be dismantled like a cheap transistor radio?
Thoughts? |
wow. . . there's so much wrong with this picture.
To start with, the feds have pretty well left them alone. . . it's been up to state governments, who have acted differently. That's how we get Utah, which has arguably not done nearly enough, and Texas, which has clearly done way too much.
I must leave this till later--time constraints--but I think Texas has done more harm to those kids than their cult. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1344
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. .
so to finish that. .
-It is extremely traumatic for children to be removed from their homes, and to be moved from place to place.
-The officials who removed the kids Failed To Meet Any Burden of Proof that
a) it was neccessary
or
b) they even tried to solve the problem in some other way.
In fact, the men offered to leave the compound for the duration of the investigation so that the women and children could remain in their home--an ideal solution--but were turned down.
Furthermore, Every Single Sibling group was slit up in placement, more often than not by hundreds of miles. This means that their mothers would have to travel for most of a day to visit some of their children for a few hours. . . mothers who had every legal right to be with their children.
Is this starting to shape up to something, you think? |
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