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emac1880
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Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Help with Diagnosis Reply with quote

Hi-I am new to this site, and I was hoping that some of you guys who have been diagnosed with Asperger's may be able to shed some light on a situation for me. I am a divorced woman who used to really struggle with frustration and guilt over leaving my spouse of 2 years because I felt sure that he had some problems or a mental disorder or something--I couldn't put my finger on it. However, I couldn't handle being in the situation anymore, because I felt like I was going crazy, so I did end up leaving. I've been doing some reading lately, and now I think that he may have been undiagnosed. I'll give you the story and please tell me your thoughts.

While dating I just thought Mike was a really sweet and smart guy--very quick to please me, be there for me with whatever I needed. He'd spend money on me like it was no big deal and he was always interested in talking about politics and economics which interested me. After getting married though (we dated briefly and didn't live in the same city so I wasn't actually around him in person a lot prior to getting married), a lot of things changed. While Mike was a sweet guy, he was also very stressed out and suffered from a lot of anxiety. It was mostly work-related; he would become obsessed with getting his job done correctly (I later learned that he had previously been fired from a job for being "lazy"--procrastinating on projects and just being overwhelmed and frozen in fear of doing badly so that he ended up doing nothing at all). He would still spend his money, though, even if he didn't have it, and he didn't pay attention to bills. I had to take care of all things finance-related. He was a "neat" person, but he struggled with hygiene, not caring if he didn't brush his teeth every day or take a shower. He didn't seem to get that there was anything abnormal about this behavior either.

He would be obsessed with talking about politics or economics and especially conspiracy theories. He could talk for 2 hours straight, without me ever saying anything, and he may not have even noticed that he was doing it. When he was stressed, he would never talk about it--he would just play video games, watch movies, drink a lot or eat. He would practice a lot of avoidance behaviors when it came to problems he was having. He had a lot of strange health problems (excessive sweating, erectile dysfunction, skin disorders, hallitosis, and others) but he was deathly afraid of going to a doctor. After making him see a urologist for his sexual issues, he came home and curled up in the fetal position and rocked in a corner for awhile. That is the only time I ever saw that.

He would sometimes say things out loud as though talking to people who weren't there. He later told me that he was practicing conversations with people in his mind--people he may bump into later in the week. He felt like he needed to practice social interactions with people, sometimes waking up in the middle of the night to do so. He would be rude to people at stores or new people that he would meet, just not saying thanks or you're welcome but seeming to not even notice that he was failing to do it. He avoided doing anything social unless I was with him, never liked seeing his own family (he had a very bad childhood--was ignored, unsupported and had parents who were very self-consumed and unaffectionate) but had no problems being around mine. He was very insecure about his appearance, though he would wear the same kinds of clothes all the time--he had about 100 collared dress shirts that he would wear with the 100 sweaters that he also owned. That's all he wore except for the times he wore a t-shirt.

He procrastinated everything and seemed disinterested in trying to overcome his issues. Though he would say that he was completely in love with me and he would often cry about this when we would fight and he acted immaturely quite often in his expression of emotion, he would never try to work on any of his issues, even ones that seemed really basic and easy. He refused counseling and just had an attitude that he would take care of it on his own, though he never really seemed to try. He also admitted that he would really resent me whenever I talked about our problems and him getting help or asking him to be more responsible, etc. He wouldn't act like it at the time of discussion, but later on when I told him that I was leaving him, he started admitting all these ways that he had been feeling--he said that he'd really get stressed out but feel unable to overcome any of his problems and that even though he knew I was right to be upset at him, all he did was secretly resent me and hold it against me and feel like I should be more understanding and cut him some slack.

He had some OCD traits too--did a lot of counting of things in his mind (he told me about this later), and this is just a random thing, but he had albums of photos he took on trips, but they were all landscapes, no people. He hated having his picture taken. It was like, even though he would seem so arrogant sometimes when it came to his knowledge on politics or economics, and even though he was ultra picky when it came to women (he liked certain types only who had certain interests only and even tried to take me shopping so I would wear clothes like his type), he was also ultra insecure and needy and dependent on female attention in order to have any self-worth.

The biggest thing, though, was his sexual obsessions. Apparently while in his early 20s, he became very fixated on hmm...personal gratification, I will call it. He admitted that he would do this several times a day and this went on for a couple of years. The reason he mentioned it is because he was having significant problems performing and he thought that maybe he had messed something up with his body because of that time in his life. Even so, it never stopped him from trying to be sexual. He seemed to have no control over his body, allowing himself to get aroused at any time during the day, even at work! He would even try to do things to me or to himself while he was sleeping--it was as though his mind never stopped working when it came to sex. Even when his body was not responding, he would try to "make" things work--this was a very common occurrence, and I was honestly becoming disturbed by the whole sexual experience with him.

Anyway, I know that was a lot, and I could write a book on everything, but I just needed to put it all out there to see if any of this sounded familiar to any of you. The relationship is over, and I don't want it back, but if he does have Asperger's, maybe it would help him to be involved in a community of others to try to get some help--though he really struggles with pride, so I don't know that he'd actually do that. I just thought it was worth a shot, though. Thanks.
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tharn
Toucan
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Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 255
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with Diagnosis Reply with quote

emac1880 wrote:
Hi-I am new to this site, and I was hoping that some of you guys who have been diagnosed with Asperger's may be able to shed some light on a situation for me. I am a divorced woman who used to really struggle with frustration and guilt over leaving my spouse of 2 years because I felt sure that he had some problems or a mental disorder or something--I couldn't put my finger on it. However, I couldn't handle being in the situation anymore, because I felt like I was going crazy, so I did end up leaving. I've been doing some reading lately, and now I think that he may have been undiagnosed. I'll give you the story and please tell me your thoughts.

While dating I just thought Mike was a really sweet and smart guy--very quick to please me, be there for me with whatever I needed. He'd spend money on me like it was no big deal and he was always interested in talking about politics and economics which interested me. After getting married though (we dated briefly and didn't live in the same city so I wasn't actually around him in person a lot prior to getting married), a lot of things changed. While Mike was a sweet guy, he was also very stressed out and suffered from a lot of anxiety. It was mostly work-related; he would become obsessed with getting his job done correctly (I later learned that he had previously been fired from a job for being "lazy"--procrastinating on projects and just being overwhelmed and frozen in fear of doing badly so that he ended up doing nothing at all). He would still spend his money, though, even if he didn't have it, and he didn't pay attention to bills. I had to take care of all things finance-related. He was a "neat" person, but he struggled with hygiene, not caring if he didn't brush his teeth every day or take a shower. He didn't seem to get that there was anything abnormal about this behavior either.

He would be obsessed with talking about politics or economics and especially conspiracy theories. He could talk for 2 hours straight, without me ever saying anything, and he may not have even noticed that he was doing it. When he was stressed, he would never talk about it--he would just play video games, watch movies, drink a lot or eat. He would practice a lot of avoidance behaviors when it came to problems he was having. He had a lot of strange health problems (excessive sweating, erectile dysfunction, skin disorders, hallitosis, and others) but he was deathly afraid of going to a doctor. After making him see a urologist for his sexual issues, he came home and curled up in the fetal position and rocked in a corner for awhile. That is the only time I ever saw that.

He would sometimes say things out loud as though talking to people who weren't there. He later told me that he was practicing conversations with people in his mind--people he may bump into later in the week. He felt like he needed to practice social interactions with people, sometimes waking up in the middle of the night to do so. He would be rude to people at stores or new people that he would meet, just not saying thanks or you're welcome but seeming to not even notice that he was failing to do it. He avoided doing anything social unless I was with him, never liked seeing his own family (he had a very bad childhood--was ignored, unsupported and had parents who were very self-consumed and unaffectionate) but had no problems being around mine. He was very insecure about his appearance, though he would wear the same kinds of clothes all the time--he had about 100 collared dress shirts that he would wear with the 100 sweaters that he also owned. That's all he wore except for the times he wore a t-shirt.

He procrastinated everything and seemed disinterested in trying to overcome his issues. Though he would say that he was completely in love with me and he would often cry about this when we would fight and he acted immaturely quite often in his expression of emotion, he would never try to work on any of his issues, even ones that seemed really basic and easy. He refused counseling and just had an attitude that he would take care of it on his own, though he never really seemed to try. He also admitted that he would really resent me whenever I talked about our problems and him getting help or asking him to be more responsible, etc. He wouldn't act like it at the time of discussion, but later on when I told him that I was leaving him, he started admitting all these ways that he had been feeling--he said that he'd really get stressed out but feel unable to overcome any of his problems and that even though he knew I was right to be upset at him, all he did was secretly resent me and hold it against me and feel like I should be more understanding and cut him some slack.

He had some OCD traits too--did a lot of counting of things in his mind (he told me about this later), and this is just a random thing, but he had albums of photos he took on trips, but they were all landscapes, no people. He hated having his picture taken. It was like, even though he would seem so arrogant sometimes when it came to his knowledge on politics or economics, and even though he was ultra picky when it came to women (he liked certain types only who had certain interests only and even tried to take me shopping so I would wear clothes like his type), he was also ultra insecure and needy and dependent on female attention in order to have any self-worth.

The biggest thing, though, was his sexual obsessions. Apparently while in his early 20s, he became very fixated on hmm...personal gratification, I will call it. He admitted that he would do this several times a day and this went on for a couple of years. The reason he mentioned it is because he was having significant problems performing and he thought that maybe he had messed something up with his body because of that time in his life. Even so, it never stopped him from trying to be sexual. He seemed to have no control over his body, allowing himself to get aroused at any time during the day, even at work! He would even try to do things to me or to himself while he was sleeping--it was as though his mind never stopped working when it came to sex. Even when his body was not responding, he would try to "make" things work--this was a very common occurrence, and I was honestly becoming disturbed by the whole sexual experience with him.

Anyway, I know that was a lot, and I could write a book on everything, but I just needed to put it all out there to see if any of this sounded familiar to any of you. The relationship is over, and I don't want it back, but if he does have Asperger's, maybe it would help him to be involved in a community of others to try to get some help--though he really struggles with pride, so I don't know that he'd actually do that. I just thought it was worth a shot, though. Thanks.


First off, welcome. ^_^ And if you haven't already, do introduce yourself to the rest of the board.

Yes, a LOT of that sounds pretty text-book Aspie, if not especially severe. Some of it is also uncomfortably close to some of my own behaviors, in fact. Wink Forgive me if I'm off the mark here, but do you ask because you're wondering how much of the blame for the break-up to place on his possible diagnosable condition? I don't mean to criticize if you are; I'm sure your intentions are good in any case.

Even if he is diagnosable, and as severely Aspie as your description implies, I don't think the problem is necessarily his Aspieness. Being Aspie doesn't preclude one's ability to have a stable relationship (though it makes it harder). What is most concerning is his unwillingness to take control of his behaviors, and make some concessions so that you could feel welcome in his life. Nothing brings a relationship to its knees faster than the "this is the way I am, take it or leave it" mentality.

I'll use myself as an example. I had a relationship once with a girl I thought the world of; we were even planning on getting married. Well, a lot of bad things happened to us, and my reaction to relationship stress was to retreat, and talk only about things I found interesting (and safe). She tried to bring up topics we REALLY needed to talk about, but I was inflexible and retreated every time. In the end, although my behaviors were very Aspie... it was my unwillingness to modify them that drove us apart.

So if you're looking to avoid this kind of strife in the future, I don't think it's necessary to avoid Aspie guys entirely. But I would avoid guys who aren't willing to try to meet you half way.

^_^
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LePetitPrince
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Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3076
Location: Beirut , Lebanon

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is most concerning is his unwillingness to take control of his behaviors, and make some concessions so that you could feel welcome in his life. Nothing brings a relationship to its knees faster than the "this is the way I am, take it or leave it" mentality.


Maybe he was trying but he was failing to change anything, words are so easy but actions are hard.
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tharn
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 255
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LePetitPrince wrote:
Quote:
What is most concerning is his unwillingness to take control of his behaviors, and make some concessions so that you could feel welcome in his life. Nothing brings a relationship to its knees faster than the "this is the way I am, take it or leave it" mentality.


Maybe he was trying but he was failing to change anything, words are so easy but actions are hard.


I don't mean to attack the guy in his absence, of course. This is entirely possible. But from the tone of the original post, I gathered that any attempt to make concessions was at least half-hearted. Certainly, there's no way to know what was in his head. There was probably no way for emac1880 to know either, since he was so closed off.
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Apple_in_my_Eye
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Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 39
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he is undiagnosed AS he might've been on the receiving end of a lot of frustrating advice in his life. It's always seemed to me that my pattern of difficulties is very hard (if not imposssible) for 'normal' folk to understand. "Shy," but not shy, can't do small talk but can go on and on about certain subjects, finding 90% of the hard part of work to be managing social stuff, tactile defensiveness but craving some kinds contact, massive stress from social interacton but still needing/wanting some, etc etc. When I was a teenager I gave up trying to explain how to world was for me. (until I found out about AS/ASD's and talked to some people on the spectrum) Especially with personal stuff; that always blew up in my face in the most painful ways. I've seen some folks here mention that therapists need to use a different "model" to give helpful advice.

None of this is not to say he had no responsibilities, or was faultless, though. (I'm also not trying to get on your case, BTW; in case it sounds that way.) IMHO, and based on not enough information, it sounds like he was struggling and was probably pretty mixed up. Whether he was lazy or trying or paralyzed for understandable or not reasons, I don't know.

I think you're right about him checking out this or any sites about AS; seems like that might be a good idea.
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emac1880
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Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks for all of your great thoughts--I really appreciate it. To tharn: it's not that I am seeking out to blame my ex for everything so that I can selfishly relieve myself of any deserving guilt that I may feel. I am certainly at fault for having not dated Mike longer prior to making the decision to get married--perhaps if I had, some of these things may have surfaced and I could have avoided ever making the decision to marry somebody who was not willing to take the steps necessary to get the help he desperately needed. And I'm sure I didn't make his life any better by "pestering" him all the time to do all of these things that made him feel clearly so uncomfortable.

I think a part of me has just felt like maybe I wasn't supportive enough or if I would have just done this or that, then maybe he would have thought I was worth putting in the effort to overcome what seemed to me to be simple tasks and expectations from somebody who swears up one side and down the other that they'll do anything for you. I could never make sense of any of it. He would say that he wanted to make me happy and that he wanted to do all of the things that he knew he needed to do in order for the relationship to improve, but then he just seemed to never do any of them at all. He would say that he was trying, and maybe he was (now that I understand more about Asperger's), but to me it just seemed like he was lying and lazy. It made me feel like I was always being played as the fool, because I kept giving him another chance.

Knowing that there is a good possibility that he is actually just somebody who is undiagnosed but living with Asperger's helps me feel like I wasn't going crazy, but that he was somebody that had this thing that he was living with and going through the whole time. I do agree with you all, though--it's still no excuse not to try to get the help you need or try to overcome your tendencies. I'm sure it doesn't help that he has lived with it for so long and probably has just bad habits formed that it is nearly impossible for him to pull himself out of them. I just wish there was some way I could direct him to a site like this without him feeling offended. The relationship has been over for a year (well, it was "over" longer ago than that, but the marriage just ended last year), so I don't really know how to say something to him about it, because we don't really talk anymore. And I fear that contact from me may just open up some old wounds--any suggestions on how (or whether) I could say something to him about it in a way that doesn't sound condescending?
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tharn
Toucan
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Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Age: 29
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Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks Reply with quote

emac1880 wrote:
To tharn: it's not that I am seeking out to blame my ex for everything so that I can selfishly relieve myself of any deserving guilt that I may feel. I am certainly at fault for having not dated Mike longer prior to making the decision to get married--perhaps if I had, some of these things may have surfaced and I could have avoided ever making the decision to marry somebody who was not willing to take the steps necessary to get the help he desperately needed. And I'm sure I didn't make his life any better by "pestering" him all the time to do all of these things that made him feel clearly so uncomfortable.


I'm not suggesting that you are out to blame your ex for anything at all. I tried to be very careful with my wording here, but I will try to be more clear, so I don't accidentally hurt any feelings. Smile I suggested that you may be working out how much of the blame to place on his condition. I certainly wouldn't call it "selfish" to feel that many of the traits you described may have been causes for your breaking up. I don't imagine you're trying to avoid feeling guilt, so much as figuring out "why" things ended.

Hindsight is 20/20. When a relationship ends, it's easy to go back and pick at yourself for things you could have done better. Trust me, I'm an old hand at the "If only I had..." game. Wink But it seems the major problem here was that your partner had a set of very Aspie traits, you lacked the experience to understand the condition, and communication broke down, turning these Aspie traits into the pink elephant in the room. It was something fundamentally damaging to your relationship, but as a couple, you couldn't identify and address it... and so it kept on doing damage.

My point is simply this. There are Aspies who, through hard work, communication, and perhaps a bit of luck, manage to establish stable relationships. Aspieness is certainly a huge challenge to forming relationships, but doesn't make it impossible. But to make any relationship work, there has to be open, honest communication - especially when something is going wrong. I think finding that type of communication matters far more than whether your partner is on the spectrum.

As for getting him here, I think your best bet is to mention it offhand. Let him know that you are finding a lot of answers here, and that things are making sense. Refer to it in a hopeful light; a serious tone could easily frighten him off. His own curiosity might take him here, so just try to defuse what he might experience as an akward confrontation. A lot of guys - and not just us on the spectrum - find it hard to aknowlege that we may be imperfect or "damaged goods". We fear that in our vulnerability, the very people we depend on will leave us, that by our weakness we've somehow failed as people. This impossible standard has potentially devestating effects on male self esteem (though any complaint about it is construed as weak and whiny, so it remains invisible). Sad

Hopefully his courage and curiousity will outweigh his trepidation. And I wish you the greatest of luck in future relationships. ^_^
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