LTP
Raven
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: Could we be the start of a different evolutionary path. |
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What are your guys' thoughts on this? Autism is marked by differences in brain structure and possibly biochemistry right? What if these changes progress and how would this progression look in hundreds or hundreds of thousands of years. Could we be the new humanity or maybe just a interesting but ultimately false start?
Last edited by LTP on Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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asplanet
Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I like to think we are evolution... all species have to grow, adapt, change to survive!
and most autistic people I know seem to have quite complex brains, the thing is no one really knows the answers, just like the universe!
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Orwell
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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No, we are not evolution. Humans are not significantly changing in phenotype due to any selective pressures, because there aren't many selective pressures still operating on us. No more Lamarckianism, please.
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LTP
Raven
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Age: 21
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | No, we are not evolution. Humans are not significantly changing in phenotype due to any selective pressures, because there aren't many selective pressures still operating on us. No more Lamarckianism, please. |
Evolution only states that a trait that gives an organism an advantage will given enough time spread throughout the population. We may not be subjected to the same pressures as our ancestors are but that does not mean we have no pressures. If a situation favoring autistic traits came about the traits would in time spread throughout the population. Hell if the statistics about the rise in autism are true SOMETHING is happening to cause it to spread more rapidly. Evolution is such a slow process I don't see how you can say with any authority that we are not changing in phenotype. |
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AceOfSpades
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, I definitely don't think it's an advance in evolution. Everyone's brain configurations are different, our brain configurations just simply deviate more from the norm and this bigger difference can mean it's harder for us to cope with the world adapted to NT's. Therefore, we are given a medical label.
This post isn't anti-NT btw, fact is the world will be adapted to the majority and the NT's happen to be the majority. |
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CanyonWind
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | No, we are not evolution. Humans are not significantly changing in phenotype due to any selective pressures, because there aren't many selective pressures still operating on us. No more Lamarckianism, please. |
Seems to me it would be true by definition that anytime you got differential reproductive output based on heritable variation, you got selection.
Not sure what's being selected for these days, but I can think of one trait that's being selected against.
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Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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AS can present advantages, but keep in mind evolution favors biological superiority for reproductive success, something that non-social AS symptoms inhibit.
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Anemone
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Paleontologically speaking, species are generally stable for millions of years. Evolution tends to happen rapidly when the environment changes, a bunch of species die off, and new ones come in to fill empty niches. Of course, our species is very young, possibly only 50,000 years old, and we may still be settling in, but we are unlikely to diverge into more than one human species. Instead, the whole species may shift around a bit while it gets comfortable.
But don't let science spoil your fun if you'd rather speculate.  |
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LTP
Raven
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Age: 21
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Anemone wrote: | Paleontologically speaking, species are generally stable for millions of years. Evolution tends to happen rapidly when the environment changes, a bunch of species die off, and new ones come in to fill empty niches. Of course, our species is very young, possibly only 50,000 years old, and we may still be settling in, but we are unlikely to diverge into more than one human species. Instead, the whole species may shift around a bit while it gets comfortable.
But don't let science spoil your fun if you'd rather speculate. |
I want my x-men powers.  |
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Pobodys_Nerfect
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wanna get on with people. That would be super dooper! |
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Mysty
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I tend to see it as variations that are there because, as a social people with different people with different roles, we, as a species, need the variation. |
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Orwell
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LTP wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | No, we are not evolution. Humans are not significantly changing in phenotype due to any selective pressures, because there aren't many selective pressures still operating on us. No more Lamarckianism, please. |
Evolution only states that a trait that gives an organism an advantage will given enough time spread throughout the population. |
No, it states that a trait that allows an organism to leave more viable offspring will spread throughout the population. Asperger's does not seem to be such a trait.
| Quote: | | We may not be subjected to the same pressures as our ancestors are but that does not mean we have no pressures. If a situation favoring autistic traits came about the traits would in time spread throughout the population. Hell if the statistics about the rise in autism are true SOMETHING is happening to cause it to spread more rapidly. |
And what possible situation would result in autistics, on average, having more children than neurotypicals? And the statistics about the rise in autism probably aren't true, for a variety of reasons, but one of the easiest to point out is that we still don't really know the frequency of autism. Anyways, there aren't really any external pressures on the human gene pool right now.
| Quote: | | Evolution is such a slow process I don't see how you can say with any authority that we are not changing in phenotype. |
Our environment is pretty stable, and we build our environments around ourselves to avoid any environmental pressures anyways. We have sexual selection still, but that's about it as far as evolutionary mechanisms operating on humans go. And that's not going to select for autistic traits.
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LTP
Raven
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Age: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And what possible situation would result in autistics, on average, having more children than neurotypicals? And the statistics about the rise in autism probably aren't true, for a variety of reasons, but one of the easiest to point out is that we still don't really know the frequency of autism. Anyways, there aren't really any external pressures on the human gene pool right now. |
What about internal pressures? Much of our current state is the result of competition between humans. Communication, social domination, many of our expressions and socialization in general are partly or wholly useful in intrahuman conflict. Financial wealth, esteem etc still play a big role in the mating game. It's not as in your face as hunting hunting big game but conflict still goes on today.
You also forgot that we are hardly impervious to external pressures. Is humanity impervious to disease, what about the issues global warming might present? Our lives are tenuous at best anything that upsets the current equilibrium could be catastrophic.
Last edited by LTP on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JWRed
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| I was thinking devolution. |
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stochastic
Blue Jay
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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This is something I have begun to consider myself.
Orwell, because of contraception, and because of a profound development of communication, sexual selection is almost irrelevant also. Basically anyone who wants to have children can find a mate on the internet.
It looks like Autism has a variety of causes, it can be genetic, but it can also come later in life. Not enough is known to be sure what causes it.
Because Autism is primarily diagnosed based on symptoms, and they can vary so dramatically, I suspect that what is included in autism may be a combination of genetic difference, and difference in neurological development in both fetal and post fetal stages.
It is logical to assume that since autism has survived, and is even relatively common, if it is genetic then it either increased chance of survival for either the individual or the tribe, or the same genes that cause autism can also cause a different result which is conducive to survival.
Autism is a spectrum, and although some autistics are disabled, some of us have realized enormous benefits from our autism. Most of us in the 'highest functioning' regions of the spectrum do not even know we have autism, like myself for the last 27 years.
As a neurological difference, I think that autism is becoming a very favorable gift in the emerging age of lifelong learning and highly specialized fields. If I had the choice I would choose to intensify most of my autistic traits.
Right now this is a very complicated topic as not enough research has been done towards understanding Autism. |
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