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Voltaire
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Location: At the back of your mind.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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You are missing the point, like so many others. Text on a screen cannot physically harm anyone, it's just words. Emails can be blocked/deleted, forums can be ignored; it really makes me wonder about the mental state of people who take the internet and mobile phone texting so seriously that they need to hide themselves away in a panic room or commit suicide. I was taught that sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me. Is anyone throwing stones on the net? is anyone shooting through cameras like guns? No. The internet is a cyber world, a playground, and is not real. Therefore, if you feel offended by any comment or text message or email, walk away. There are more things in life than computers and mobile phones; it's a pity the younger generation hasn't woken up to this fact. If they did, then they might feel better. I don't regret my comment on the '60s, at least I didn't have any suicidal thoughts or worry about who was hiding around the corner; I just got on with life and let everything else take care of itself.
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I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.
Machiavelli, Dante, Sideshow Bob - now THAT'S a trinity. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 7560
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltaire wrote: | | You are missing the point, like so many others. Text on a screen cannot physically harm anyone, it's just words. Emails can be blocked/deleted, forums can be ignored; it really makes me wonder about the mental state of people who take the internet and mobile phone texting so seriously that they need to hide themselves away in a panic room or commit suicide. I was taught that sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me. Is anyone throwing stones on the net? is anyone shooting through cameras like guns? No. The internet is a cyber world, a playground, and is not real. Therefore, if you feel offended by any comment or text message or email, walk away. There are more things in life than computers and mobile phones; it's a pity the younger generation hasn't woken up to this fact. If they did, then they might feel better. I don't regret my comment on the '60s, at least I didn't have any suicidal thoughts or worry about who was hiding around the corner; I just got on with life and let everything else take care of itself. |
well, you got the BORING part down, I give you that.
Merle
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The economy is getting so bad my dog is worried.
Alpo is up to $4.00 USD a can and that is $12.00 USD in dog dollars! |
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TheMidnightJudge
autist
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 1311
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: |
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"When these members do this in future, there is a strong possibility that they will immediately be banned"
Yeah the Haven's definitely not a place for cynicism. I haven't seen the cynicism myself, but someone who is being cynical may still have good intentions, or they may be dealing with problems of their own. |
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princess_1989
Blue Jay
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Age: 18
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I, for one , have every right to, being that I suffer the worst sh** on the planet, so therefore, I look at others' problems as just a bunch a trivial crap that cannot possibly be as bad asa mine.
Get It?
Getting a whipping at 18, then missing SENIOR PROM for Complaining about it. What a bunch of BS???!!!
SO I GUESS IT IS COOL TO KNOW THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH PROBLEMS.
After all that makes me better than all of you, because I bared the most problems in my life time!  |
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aspiartist
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| princess_1989 wrote: | I, for one , have every right to, being that I suffer the worst sh** on the planet, so therefore, I look at others' problems as just a bunch a trivial crap that cannot possibly be as bad asa mine.
Get It?
Getting a whipping at 18, then missing SENIOR PROM for Complaining about it. What a bunch of BS???!!!
SO I GUESS IT IS COOL TO KNOW THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH PROBLEMS.
After all that makes me better than all of you, because I bared the most problems in my life time! |
This is an attitude that will get you nowhere and isn't supported or justified. Everyone suffers and one person's suffering doesn't outweigh any other persons sense of hurt or suffering, no matter what. It also isn't an excuse to behave badly or continue a legacy of abuse by systematically lashing out and abusing others for no reason at all. I hope you can get a grip with that, otherwise it may be justified to call it Trolling. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9412
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| aspiartist wrote: | | princess_1989 wrote: | I, for one , have every right to, being that I suffer the worst sh** on the planet, so therefore, I look at others' problems as just a bunch a trivial crap that cannot possibly be as bad asa mine.
Get It?
Getting a whipping at 18, then missing SENIOR PROM for Complaining about it. What a bunch of BS???!!!
SO I GUESS IT IS COOL TO KNOW THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH PROBLEMS.
After all that makes me better than all of you, because I bared the most problems in my life time! |
This is an attitude that will get you nowhere and isn't supported or justified. Everyone suffers and one person's suffering doesn't outweigh any other persons sense of hurt or suffering, no matter what. It also isn't an excuse to behave badly or continue a legacy of abuse by systematically lashing out and abusing others for no reason at all. I hope you can get a grip with that, otherwise it may be justified to call it Trolling. |
Public accusations of trolling are never justified. Please report suspected trolling or other rule violations to me or another moderator by PM. Thanks.
_________________
"It dives in shallows for beakfuls of moss, heads to sandy isles to preen its feathers. It was ready to fly off all by itself, then found its reflection and lingered."
- Xie Tiao |
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aspiartist
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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So, it's okay for multiple people to scream Troll and throw up nasty images in a thread where someone is talking about their abuse experiences, as there has been no moderating on Princess' thread at all with regards to this, but it's not okay to use the term in a more constructive manner the way that I did. Does this make any sense? Is it okay for people to verbally abuse "abuse victims" in the Haven by vehemently calling them Troll, because this was indeed allowed to take place? There was a vast difference in the way I used the term and the way others did on Princess' thread in response to her experiences of being abused by her family.
The double-standard seen here is very sad indeed. Basically you are condoning abuse toward abuse victims and only moderate when they react or become the aggressor. I guess this is more an elite club and eventually people like me can be weeded out. Charming. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9412
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| aspiartist wrote: | So, it's okay for multiple people to scream Troll and throw up nasty images in a thread where someone is talking about their abuse experiences, as there has been no moderating on Princess' thread at all with regards to this, but it's not okay to use the term in a more constructive manner the way that I did. Does this make any sense? Is it okay for people to verbally abuse "abuse victims" in the Haven by vehemently calling them Troll, because this was indeed allowed to take place? There was a vast difference in the way I used the term and the way others did on Princess' thread in response to her experiences of being abused by her family.
The double-standard seen here is very sad indeed. Basically you are condoning abuse toward abuse victims and only moderate when they react or become the aggressor. I guess this is more an elite club and eventually people like me can be weeded out. Charming. |
I didn't say the way you used the term was not okay. I said public accusations of trolling are never justified. It is not okay for multiple people to scream troll. To which moderator was the incident in question reported?
Allow me to reiterate:
If you see a problem, report it to a moderator. If you feel you get an unsatisfactory response, ask another moderator to review.
Where in any of this have I said that you did anything, much less anything wrong? All I have done is talk about what I have said and what my expectations are. I am very explicite to avoid any confusion. After all, we're all aspies here, and misunderstandings happen easily. I ask people, "Do you mean...?" because when I infer, I usually infer incorrectly. If anybody infers anything from anything I say, they are probably wrong, because if I didn't say it, then that's probably not what I meant.
Isn't it nice to deal with people who just say what they mean and mean what they say?
_________________
"It dives in shallows for beakfuls of moss, heads to sandy isles to preen its feathers. It was ready to fly off all by itself, then found its reflection and lingered."
- Xie Tiao |
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aspiartist
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MrMark wrote: | | aspiartist wrote: | So, it's okay for multiple people to scream Troll and throw up nasty images in a thread where someone is talking about their abuse experiences, as there has been no moderating on Princess' thread at all with regards to this, but it's not okay to use the term in a more constructive manner the way that I did. Does this make any sense? Is it okay for people to verbally abuse "abuse victims" in the Haven by vehemently calling them Troll, because this was indeed allowed to take place? There was a vast difference in the way I used the term and the way others did on Princess' thread in response to her experiences of being abused by her family.
The double-standard seen here is very sad indeed. Basically you are condoning abuse toward abuse victims and only moderate when they react or become the aggressor. I guess this is more an elite club and eventually people like me can be weeded out. Charming. |
I didn't say the way you used the term was not okay. I said public accusations of trolling are never justified. It is not okay for multiple people to scream troll. To which moderator was the incident in question reported?
Allow me to reiterate:
If you see a problem, report it to a moderator. If you feel you get an unsatisfactory response, ask another moderator to review.
Where in any of this have I said that you did anything, much less anything wrong? All I have done is talk about what I have said and what my expectations are. I am very explicite to avoid any confusion. After all, we're all aspies here, and misunderstandings happen easily. I ask people, "Do you mean...?" because when I infer, I usually infer incorrectly. If anybody infers anything from anything I say, they are probably wrong, because if I didn't say it, then that's probably not what I meant.
Isn't it nice to deal with people who just say what they mean and mean what they say? |
Then evidently the incident wasn't reported, which is a common problem among victims. This is because the world has already told them in countless ways that the abuse they endured was acceptable, because in general the abuse was, is and always has been allowed. This is the legacy of child abuse. They have to learn everything as a way of trying to swim up-river while everyone else gets an easy ride down-stream.
Thanks for the added sarcasm, if that's what makes one an aspie. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9412
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'm here, now, telling you that it is not acceptable.
When I'm being sarcastic, or otherwise kidding, I use the "wink" icon, so there's no misunderstanding.
_________________
"It dives in shallows for beakfuls of moss, heads to sandy isles to preen its feathers. It was ready to fly off all by itself, then found its reflection and lingered."
- Xie Tiao |
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aspiartist
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I see that you weren't being sarcastic, as suggested, but a problem still remains.
Who reported my use of the term Troll? Given your immediate response-time and my usage with regard to its context, I doubt anyone did. Why couldn't you have also shown up, if not in a delayed fashion, on Princess' thread where she was blantantly being attacked with the handy and apparantly legal, in that context, use of the term Troll? Please at least notice when vulnerable people are being unfairly attacked and respond then, as well, because all you're doing here is encouraging certain individuals that it's okay for 'them' but not okay in a more mindful context for others to make use of the term. I wasn't using the term in any way maliciously, as others have done on Princess' thread. Why is there a double-standard in this instance? Are you choosing to reprimand me in public and moderating others in private, or has no moderation taken place at all on that thread? |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9412
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm watching this topic, I'm not watching that one.
It's a hugh forum. We rely extensively on the membership to report problems.
You have not been reprimanded. I said, "Public accusations of trolling are never justified." You raised the issue when you said, "...it may be justified to call it Trolling." and I talked about the issue. I didn't talk about you. All I have done is talk to you, about the issues.
_________________
"It dives in shallows for beakfuls of moss, heads to sandy isles to preen its feathers. It was ready to fly off all by itself, then found its reflection and lingered."
- Xie Tiao |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| aspiartist wrote: | So, it's okay for multiple people to scream Troll and throw up nasty images in a thread where someone is talking about their abuse experiences, as there has been no moderating on Princess' thread at all with regards to this, but it's not okay to use the term in a more constructive manner the way that I did. Does this make any sense? Is it okay for people to verbally abuse "abuse victims" in the Haven by vehemently calling them Troll, because this was indeed allowed to take place? There was a vast difference in the way I used the term and the way others did on Princess' thread in response to her experiences of being abused by her family.
The double-standard seen here is very sad indeed. Basically you are condoning abuse toward abuse victims and only moderate when they react or become the aggressor. I guess this is more an elite club and eventually people like me can be weeded out. Charming. |
There is no victim being abused. There is however a person who loves to harass haven posters on a regular basis, whose stories of past abuse get worse and worse when there is no outrage reaction until there is an outrageous reaction due to them, and whose instances of abuse only ever get posted right after someone calls her out for harassing other posters and who says the fact she was whipped once after several days of deliberately trying to annoy and embarass her family in public means she has the right to abuse any haven poster as she sees fit, and who the mods see no reason to discipline even though they are always deleting her posts so newbies like you get tricked into thinking she really is a victim and don't have any information to see that she isn't (however you can see a decent number of her nasty attacks using google cache which you might want to look over before calling her an abuse victim). Calling her a troll isn't half as bad as what she regularly says to people about the issues that are upsetting them and unlike her comments these ones are done with the intention of keeping others from getting hurt - you won't get hurt by her and her attacks if you know she somewhat frequently acts this way just because she enjoys hurting haven posters at their weakest moment and she only ever has abuse to complain about when people complain about her abusing others here. And since the mods have shown they don't care about her behavior something must be done if people are going to be able to use the haven as a haven. I don't know who deleted her attacks last time but quartermass was one of the people who received a message about it
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http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74894.html |
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aspiartist
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know the history but there are quite a number of personal attacks being made on Princess 1989's thread here in the Haven, "Being beat because i look like "the devil". She sounds young and coming out of abuse in the early stages is very, very difficult. I don't think people should be allowed to abuse her further because she isn't handling things well. Perhaps someone could encourage her to notify the moderators, rather than reacting, to what is percieved as a lack of understanding in both directions. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| aspiartist wrote: | | I don't know the history but there are quite a number of personal attacks being made on Princess 1989's thread here in the Haven, "Being beat because i look like "the devil". She sounds young and coming out of abuse in the early stages is very, very difficult. I don't think people should be allowed to abuse her further because she isn't handling things well. Perhaps someone could encourage her to notify the moderators, rather than reacting, to what is percieved as a lack of understanding in both directions. |
They only do it because she went out and abused them a little over a week ago - its just people are fed up with her attacking them again and again. And not in her threads - its in their threads. People didn't start posting about her being a troll in her threads until she spent significant amount of her time going out of her way to make sure every haven poster with a recent issue got some very nasty comments in response to them, and used 2 other accounts to back up her statements. She had never received more than whipping before the posted "being beat because I look like the devil" and that thread was posted soon after someone said she could be relieved that she was never hurt because of the way she looked
Also, if half the things she says are true than the other half must be false. Because its impossible for even half of what she says to be true given the other half. And most of what she says is just posts designed to greatly upset people but those are the posts that disappear while the abuse posts of which she has no problem with until she is called out on her attacks stay up. Which is why people like you get tricked into thinking she is a victim when anyone who is a regular poster of the haven know thats one word that can never be applied to her.
I understand your intentions are noble but any longterm haven posters know what this person is. And quite a few them initially came in like you, standing up and defending her, only to become embarassed, hurt and ashamed later one when they realized how she regularly behaves here. If you stick around another month or two you'll likely be seeing her as nothing more than a troll too
But since she and her sock puppets haven't logged on for over a week maybe she realized that people here won't put up this and so this is all a nonissue
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http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74894.html |
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