| Why does the Catholic chruch defend illegal immigration? |
| because it is the christian thing to do |
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48% |
[ 13 ] |
| because most illegal immigrants are catholic |
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51% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 11156
Location: New Orleans, LA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| sojournertruth wrote: | virtually everything that is currently said about illegal immigrants from latin America was once said about the Irish.
They're poor.
There are too many of them.
They don't speak English.
They have too many children.
They're Catholic.
They're dirty.
They don't understand our culture.
They're violent.
They're criminals.
Except for one other thing - the majority of immigrants from latin America are also brown, which makes it so much worse.
The English changed America forever when they immigrated and took the country from the Native Americans; the Irish changed American culture forever in the process of assimilating; Latin immigrants will also change the country forever. We're American. This is what our country is about. Fear of change only makes us weak. |
same with the italians.....in fact moreso than the irish cause the italians were mostly olive skinned so they definitely weren't "white". |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Why not instead of "sheparding" millions of catholic illegals into this country, the vatican simply brings in a thousand of them and then sends them all to Notre Dame. That should be enough to ease their "christian conscience". Illegal immigrants cant all work for catholic charities. At some point they stop being a burdon on the church and become one on the US tax payer. I guess its ok for the catholic church to thumb its nose at Americans.. as Americans we know all about taking one for Team World. We shoulder everything while the little "pirrahna countries" chip us to pieces. It wont last forever though. When the USA has finally been cut down to size, it will no longer be capable. Absorbing Mexicos poverty will be the literal end of Superpower USA.
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sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| too late. The current occupant of the white house has already eviscerated the constitution. |
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Fuzzy
Atheist/Apostate Aspie
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 5530
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | I also believe that it is dangerous to suggest that a multi-lingual society can peacefully coexist. |
Your navel gazing is showing. I'm a Canadian, but I am not going to suggest Canada, even though it is bi-lingual.
There is a country, which you have apparently never heard of, called Switzerland. Its a funny country, with a funny sort of democracy called direct representation. Its also funny in that its multi-lingual, having four official languages and friendly to many more languages than that. Its also remarkably peaceful, and gosh darn, if it hasnt been independent since august 1st, 1291.
Not very long.. only 717 years. You know.. just since the last year of the Crusades. Recent history really.
I'm sorry. Thats dangerous of me to suggest, right?
How about Wales, uniformly having signs listed in both Welsh and English? Unified back in 1056. Still going strong today.
Want outside europe?
How about South africa, with 11 official languages.
India has two official languages, Hindi and English, with dozens of sanctioned official languages at the state level, its also noted for hosting a wide variety of religions. The CIA world factbook does not suggest that there is any indication that India will cease as a state due to all the strange talking poor people.
How about China, with the official languages of Mandarin Cantonese, Shanghainese, Fuzhou, Hokkien/Taiwanese, Xiang, Gan, Hakka and a host of other languages?
The simple fact of the matter is sir, that the more languages one speaks, the better one gets along in this world. If you get off the plane in Paris and say "Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un ici qui parle l'anglais?" you'll get a far better response than, "Anyone speak American here, huh?"
Maybe you dont ever want to leave the states, but if someone knocked on your door and said,
"Parlez-vous française? J'ai besoin d'un médecin!"
Wouldnt you want to be able to reassure(and help) them with,
"Oui! J'appelle la hôpital!"
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: |
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A nation is much more than a place on a map. It is a state of mind, a shared vision, and a recognition that we are all in this together. A nation needs a common language as it needs a common currency. You have to share something with your neighbors beside a zip code.
We need many things to tie us together, but one indispensable element must be that we all speak one common language. It would be an unprecedented and unparalleled path of conflict and division for America to become a bilingual nation.
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5379
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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* Illegals are evil.
* Catholic Church supports illegals.
* Catholic Church is evil.
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Anyway, if I was an American I would love the illegals, I mean a bunch of people that would do all those dirty jobs for less... compare them with the legal immigrants, people that steal positions at big IT companies or that crash planes on towers... (A lot of people miss the fact the terrorists were legal immigrants)
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Staying in the US on an overextended visa
is not exactly somthing I would consider legal..
**LOU DOBBS WARNING**
On Lou Dobbs' show there were a group of "legal Latinos" in Arizona protesting the honorable sheriff Joe Arpaio. They were holding signs that read "Illegal immigrants are our people". Even though it wasnt funny, I couldnt help but laugh. This is what Americans are up against. Legal Hispanics who think illegal aliens are "their people". One might argue that once you become an American, AMERICANS are your people, not MEXICANS. It reveals the true mindset. They do not care about other US citizens or about US laws being broken. They only care about "their people" regardless of their nationality. The sad part is that the illegals are much more likely to steal the jobs of their supporters, but the supporters dont care. They know its all a numbers game and if they can get enough of "their people" into this country, and spread to all corners of the US before US citizens become wise to it, they will have won. Make no mistake, our nation is at war with Mexico, and thanks to political correctness gone suicidal and organizations like the catholic church, it is losing.
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Last edited by Fred2670 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5379
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah those evil Mexicans, want to destroy our American culture of hamburgers and Chinese food by introducing tacos on it, how dare them.
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Vexcalibur wrote: | | Yeah those evil Mexicans, want to destroy our American culture of hamburgers and Chinese food by introducing tacos on it, how dare them. |
this has nothing to do with food and
everything to do with the absolute takeover
of the United States by a foreign country
by the time you nonbelievers get slapped in
the face with a heavy dose of reality.. it will be
too late. Our children will be speaking Spanish
as a first language and the white house will be
covered in MS13 graffitti
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I happen to notice how Obama wants American kids to learn Spanish. What's up with that? We Canadians are no stranger to lanaguage debate. I guess we have French like you guys have Spanish. Except Quebec was never separate from us. |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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are we at least having fun yet?
I love the Jesus
I bet anything he spoke English
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5379
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | Vexcalibur wrote: | | Yeah those evil Mexicans, want to destroy our American culture of hamburgers and Chinese food by introducing tacos on it, how dare them. |
this has nothing to do with food and
everything to do with the absolute takeover
of the United States by a foreign country
by the time you nonbelievers get slapped in
the face with a heavy dose of reality.. it will be
too late. Our children will be speaking Spanish
as a first language and the white house will be
covered in MS13 graffitti |
I am scared now.
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sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | One might argue that once you become an American, AMERICANS are your people, not MEXICANS. It reveals the true mindset. They do not care about other US citizens or about US laws being broken. They only care about "their people" regardless of their nationality. |
Yeah! Once you emigrate, you're supposed to disown your entire family, shun them, act like they don't exist anymore. Cousins, Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, Siblings - forget them! They're just the losers who got left behind.
| Quote: | | Make no mistake, our nation is at war with Mexico, and thanks to political correctness gone suicidal and organizations like the catholic church, it is losing. |
Oh, so that's why people are being dissapeared to Guantanamo, why buildings are being blown up, why there are suicide bombers in American streets.
Oh, wait....
maybe you're wrong. |
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Fuzzy
Atheist/Apostate Aspie
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 5530
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Last I heard, America allows dual citizenship. Therefore, a "legal" Mexican-American could call all Mexicans, residing in the states or not, "their people".
| http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ wrote: |
Brief overview on dual citizenship
In general, countries define citizenship based on one's descent, place of birth, marriage, and/or naturalization. That is, you might be a citizen of a given country for one or more of the following reasons:
* You were born on territory belonging to, or claimed by, that country (often called ius soli, or sometimes jus soli -- Latin for "right of the soil").
* One or both of your parents were citizens of that country (often called ius sanguinis or jus sanguinis -- Latin for "right of the blood").
* You married a citizen of that country (though please note that the practice of granting immediate, automatic citizenship to a foreign spouse is far less prevalent today than it was decades ago).
* You (or one or both of your parents) obtained that country's citizenship by going through a legal process of naturalization.
The exact details will, not surprisingly, depend on the laws of the country in question. For example, the US limits its application of ius sanguinis by requiring American parents to have lived for a certain period of time in the US before foreign-born children can be entitled to US citizenship by birth. Many countries (Switzerland is one example) do not confer citizenship via ius soli at all, and those which do generally make exceptions for children of foreign diplomats. Automatic citizenship via marriage is rare nowadays; more commonly, marriage may allow one spouse a "fast track" to immigration to the other spouse's country, but a period of non-citizen permanent residence would still be required before the immigrant spouse could obtain a new citizenship via naturalization.
Since there can be several ways to acquire a given country's citizenship, it is possible for someone to be considered a citizen under the laws of two (or more) countries at the same time. This is what is meant by dual (or multiple) citizenship.
For example, my son has been a dual citizen of both the US and Canada from the day he was born. He is a citizen of the US (via ius sanguinis), because his parents are both US citizens who fulfilled the US's legal requirement of residency in the US prior to his birth. And he is also a citizen of Canada (via ius soli), because he was born in Canada and neither my wife nor myself were in Canada as foreign diplomats.
I, too, am a dual citizen of both the US and Canada -- a citizen of the US because I was born in the US, and a citizen of Canada because I went through the Canadian naturalization process (an action which did not cause me to lose my US citizenship).
Countries usually frame their citizenship laws with little or no regard for the citizenship laws of other countries. In my son's case, for instance, the US does not care that Canada thinks he is a Canadian citizen, and Canada does not care that the US thinks he is a US citizen.
In some (but, please note, not all) cases, a country may seek to restrict dual citizenship by requiring one of its citizens born with some other citizenship to renounce (give up) the other citizenship upon reaching adulthood. Similarly, newly naturalized citizens in some (but not all) countries are required to renounce their previous citizenship(s); the US has such a requirement, for example, but Canada does not. And in some (but, again, not all) cases, a country will automatically revoke the citizenship of one of its citizens who acquires another country's citizenship by naturalization, even if no explicit renunciation was involved.
Where one country requires a citizen to renounce the citizenship of another country, this renunciation may or may not be acknowledged or accepted by the other country. This can sometimes lead to sticky legal situations. Also, countries which require such renunciations differ in how seriously they treat this requirement. In some cases (such as Singapore), an applicant for naturalization may be required by his new country to go to an embassy or consulate of his old country and renounce his old citizenship in a manner prescribed by his old country's laws. Other countries (such as the US in recent years) may treat their own naturalization oaths' renunciatory language as essentially meaningless and take no steps to enforce it at all.
As a general rule, dual citizens are not entitled to any sort of special treatment by their two countries of citizenship. Each country will usually consider the person as if he were a citizen of that country alone. Some people describe this sort of situation by saying that a given country "does not recognize dual citizenship" -- but this usage can be confusing, because it might mean either that a country passively ignores other countries' claims on its citizens, or that it actively prohibits its citizens from also being citizens of other countries.
Citizenship frequently carries with it legal obligations relating to taxes, military service, and/or travel restrictions. Again, since countries usually insist on dealing with their citizens without regard to any other citizenships they might hold, and tend to frame their laws regarding citizenship obligations without regard for the laws of other countries, a dual citizen could possibly find that a country which considers him a citizen, but in which he does not live, expects him to pay taxes (possibly in addition to taxes he is already paying in his country of residence); considers him liable to be drafted into its army (even if he has already served or is currently serving in the other country's army); and may forbid him to travel to certain countries, including possibly his other country of citizenship.
In practice, such situations are often smoothed over via tax treaties and the like, but conflicts could (and sometimes do) occur. Also, be aware that most countries (the US is the main exception) base liability for income tax on residence (where one lives) and/or source of income, not solely on citizenship; thus, dual citizenship usually does not automatically translate into double taxation.
Citizenship claims by a country over a given individual could happen even if the person in question never sought recognition as a citizen of that country -- or even if the person was totally unaware that he/she was a citizen of that country according to its laws. Accordingly, anyone who is planning to travel to an ancestral homeland -- even for a brief vacation trip -- would be strongly advised to check that country's citizenship laws carefully beforehand. Otherwise, the trip could run into unpleasant snags if you discover, say, that Country X considers you to be one of its citizens because your father (or even your grandfather!) came from Country X -- and that, as a result, you need a passport issued by Country X in order to leave -- and in any event you can't leave until you have put in a year's worth of military service in Country X's army -- and when consular officials of the only country where you thought you were a citizen try to intervene in your behalf, they are told to get lost because your case is strictly an internal matter between Country X and one of its own citizens (i.e., you)!
On the other hand, dual citizenship can have distinct advantages. In particular, a person with dual citizenship has greater flexibility in his or her choice of where to live and work. Thus, it behooves anyone with dual or multiple citizenship -- or with the possibility of claiming such a status -- to investigate the pros and cons of the specific situation very carefully.
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sojournertruth wrote: |
Yeah! Once you emigrate, you're supposed to disown your entire family, shun them, act like they don't exist anymore. Cousins, Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, Siblings - forget them! They're just the losers who got left behind. |
I do not have a problem with legal residents of the US, regardless of their previous nationality, unless however they place the support of a foreign nation ABOVE that of their new allegiance to the United States.
FOREIGN FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO RESIDE IN THIS COUNTRY. IF THEY COME IN ILLEGALLY THEY SHOULD BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY AND ANYONE WHO HARBORS THEM OR AIDS THEM IN ANY WAY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED TO FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW.
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