| Why does the Catholic chruch defend illegal immigration? |
| because it is the christian thing to do |
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48% |
[ 13 ] |
| because most illegal immigrants are catholic |
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51% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy wrote: | | Last I heard, America allows dual citizenship. Therefore, a "legal" Mexican-American could call all Mexicans, residing in the states or not, "their people". |
the fourteenth amendment specifies that those who are naturalized must owe EXCLUSIVE ALLEGIANCE to the United States. The oath of citizenship requires a pledge of such allegiance
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 3170
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | Fuzzy wrote: | | Last I heard, America allows dual citizenship. Therefore, a "legal" Mexican-American could call all Mexicans, residing in the states or not, "their people". |
the fourteenth amendment specifies that those who are naturalized must owe EXCLUSIVE ALLEGIANCE to the United States. The oath of citizenship requires a pledge of such allegiance |
No, the 14th Amendment doesn't state that. The Oath of Citizenship does involve renouncing "allegiance and fidelity" to other countries, but the US government does not require that a person give up foreign passports or dual citizenship. Naturalized citizens cannot engage in certain activities related to allegiance and fidelity, but they can still have dual citizenship. |
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Fuzzy
Atheist/Apostate Aspie
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 5530
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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People emigrating from the US do not have their US citizenship revoked, thus rendering your 14th amendment somewhat banal.
US citizens living abroad who have children may bring them back to the states. It used to be that the children gained immediate citizenship, but now I suppose they must naturalize when they reach the age of consent. Again, it is beyond the jurisdiction of the US to void their citizenship in that foreign country. Nor is there any interest in doing so.
Further, I do not know of any international precedence requiring or even permitting a person to lose their primary citizenship(but they could lose proof). Even the dissolution of a country would result in a defacto membership in the country controlling the territory that comprised the ex-state. Whether that country would take the refugee is open to question though.
The only situation I can think of is if an island-state sunk in an earthquake.
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| sojournertruth wrote: |
Oh, so that's why people are being dissapeared to Guantanamo, why buildings are being blown up, why there are suicide bombers in American streets.
Oh, wait....
maybe you're wrong.
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In the few years since these studies were made, the
problems associated with illegal immigration
have only intensified
What costs more per year than the the Iraq War?
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. FAIR: : Immigration and Welfare
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies
4. $12 Billiondollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. &nbs p;CNN.com - Transcripts
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC RIPTS/0604/01/ldt..01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens.. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US . CNN.com - Transcripts
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.o...eportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?
What kills more Americans per year than the the Iraq War?
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1793891/posts
Since the cost of illegal immigration is more than
the Iraq war, and more Americans are being killed
by illegal immigrants than our soldiers in Iraq..
I think its safe to say that
"THE UNITED STATES IS AT WAR WITH MEXICO"
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traveller011212
Phoenix
Joined: May 27, 2008
Age: 32
Posts: 533
Location: Right here!!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | | personally I believe it is all part of the Catholic master plan to wipe out all other religions (especially Islam) and institute a vatican based worldwide theocracy |
ahhhh, The dark ages reborn |
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sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 293
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Are you saying that the taxes illegal aliens willingly
file with their stolen social security numbers is a
sum greater than the benefits they recieve?
no?
then you must believe that its only right that the
American taxpayer should pay to have their
country siezed by Mexico
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1793891/posts |
Since we love made-up statistics so much:
Spent on immigrants :
#
Spent on Iraq:
########################
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 3170
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Fred,
"CNN - transcripts" is not a source by itself. CNN puts lots of people on their shows, and those people say all kinds of things. That doesn't make CNN the validator of what they say. If it was a spokesman for the Minuteman Militia interviewed on CNN, you should credit that spokesman, not the network. |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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are you discrediting the statistic or not?
When discrediting the validity of a statistic, one
should note that their opinion regarding a particular
cable news channel makes no difference.
youre not buying it?
fine.. disprove it then
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qaliqo
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 187
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: In defense... |
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Immigration is a fact of life; it is economic osmosis, an intended part of nature. Nations and laws are an illusion of arbitrary, capricious beliefs, socially imposed. Nationalism is like racism, sexism, and zealotry -- if the false doctrines won't die, the people believing them must, or we will all suffer when the resources start running dry in earnest.
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 3170
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Fred2670 wrote: | are you discrediting the statistic or not?
When discrediting the validity of a statistic, one
should note that their opinion regarding a particular
cable news channel makes no difference.
youre not buying it?
fine.. disprove it then |
I'm not going to bother investigating. I have seen a similar list on another website I frequent, and when I checked those out, most were somewhere between suspect and bogus.
I do agree that a country has a right to set immigration policy and enforce it. I think the U.S. should do a better job. But I don't stay up at night worrying about the brown hordes. |
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Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| monty wrote: |
I'm not going to bother investigating. I have seen a similar list on another website I frequent, and when I checked those out, most were somewhere between suspect and bogus. |
Great.. thanks for sharing.
Next time you decide to share by leaving out
any and all pertinent substance, please endeavor
to be more complete.
| monty wrote: | | I do agree that a country has a right to set immigration policy and enforce it. I think the U.S. should do a better job. But I don't stay up at night worrying about the brown hordes. |
brown has nothing to do with it
if Canada was crashing our borders
destroying our culture, stealing our jobs,
and bankrupting our country, We'd be putting
up a fence on that side instead.
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ed
Odd Duck
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Age: 68
Posts: 1869
Location: central Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Boy, has this topic gone way off course 
The topic was about the motive(s) of the Catholic Church in supporting illegal immigrants 
I hate the Catholic Church... I think it is an evil institution. That's where I'm coming from in this question.
I think both reasons apply, but I gave greater weight to "it's the Christian thing to do," and voted that way. After all, they also oppose capital punishment on the basis that it's morally wrong. |
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nightbender
failed quisach haderack
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 1203
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| ed wrote: |
I hate the Catholic Church... I think it is an evil institution. That's where I'm coming from in this question.
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I find that offensive and without basis |
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