| Why does the Catholic chruch defend illegal immigration? |
| because it is the christian thing to do |
|
48% |
[ 13 ] |
| because most illegal immigrants are catholic |
|
51% |
[ 14 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 27 |
|
ed
Odd Duck
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Age: 68
Posts: 1869
Location: central Massachusetts
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| nightbender wrote: | | ed wrote: | | nightbender wrote: | | ed wrote: |
I hate the Catholic Church... I think it is an evil institution. That's where I'm coming from in this question.
|
I find that offensive and without basis |
That's your problem, not mine. |
and exactly what nefarious activities is the Catholic church engaged in? |
What? You want to debate the Catholic Church here? Sorry, that's not what this topic is about... anyway, nothing I said is even debatable:
1) "I hate the Catholic Church" - well, that's pretty simple... How can you debate whether or not I hate the Catholic Church?
2) "I think it is an evil institution" - Are you telling me that I don't think it is an evil institution?
I don't have to justify my feelings or thoughts to you or to anyone... If you have a problem with them, that's your business... I don't begrudge you your thoughts or feelings, but then that's me 
Of course, you could always dredge up one of the old topics that argue the merits of the Catholic Church; but I warn you, if what I said caused you to take offense, then prepare to be horrified at what others are going to say! 
_________________
How can we outlaw a plant created by a perfect God? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
![]()
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5379
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Catholic Church is in the middle in the scale of evilness, with certain US radical/fundamentalist churches and movements at the top.
_________________
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
nightbender
failed quisach haderack
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 1203
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
right
and you have evidence to back up said accusations
i dont think you and i have the same concept of good and evil. |
|
| Back to top |
|
greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9915
Location: Home
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Vexcalibur wrote: | | The Catholic Church is in the middle in the scale of evilness, with certain US radical/fundamentalist churches and movements at the top. |
Actually, the Catholic Church seems to be more tolerant than evangelical fundamentalism, although these things may depend on the denomination.
Opus Dei is really evil!
_________________
“Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.”
Last edited by greenblue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9915
Location: Home
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is just speculation from my part, but I think that some things that are currently part of their dogma have changed because of problems from the past with the Inquisition and the Crussades, and antisemitism from the past (like correcting past mistakes) some examples: no longer considering the jews to be the cause of Jesus' death, Mary Magdalene's status changed, probably their thoughts against the death penalty would have been related to that, accepting evolution over creationism.
_________________
“Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
nightbender
failed quisach haderack
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 1203
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yes its much easier to be tolerant when you have a mechinism for forgiving people that just requires a couple hail marys and your completly forgiven. |
|
| Back to top |
|
monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 3170
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nightbender wrote: | | yes its much easier to be tolerant when you have a mechinism for forgiving people that just requires a couple hail marys and your completly forgiven. |
Don't all religions have something like this? In Catholicism, it is confession to a priest, followed by prayers or some other penance. But 99% of Christianity seems to be focused on how Christ is the reedemer for the sins of man, all is forgiven through his sacrifice, provided you recognize his deity status, etc. And even if someone has no religious beliefs, they can always invoke 'water under the bridge' or 'no use crying over spilled milk'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
nightbender
failed quisach haderack
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 1203
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| monty wrote: | | nightbender wrote: | | yes its much easier to be tolerant when you have a mechinism for forgiving people that just requires a couple hail marys and your completly forgiven. |
Don't all religions have something like this? In Catholicism, it is confession to a priest, followed by prayers or some other penance. But 99% of Christianity seems to be focused on how Christ is the reedemer for the sins of man, all is forgiven through his sacrifice, provided you recognize his deity status, etc. And even if someone has no religious beliefs, they can always invoke 'water under the bridge' or 'no use crying over spilled milk'. |
no hinduism budhism dont really have forgiveness mechanisms and does most pagan religions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sojournertruth
Toucan
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 293
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: My bad!!! I edit mistakes! |
|
|
| qaliqo wrote: | | Sure that Congress is just rushing to right California a check for $10M, a state that receives billions of dollars more from the feds than it pays in via federal taxation each year? |
You have that backwards. California receives ~ $0.78 in federal aid for every $1.00 it pays in taxes.
California income tax vs. federal aid
scroll down for California.
Oklahoma, which has some of the most draconian anti-immigration laws in the country, received $1.36 in federal aid for every $1.00 it paid in 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ToadOfSteel
unlovable
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 6716
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Can we stop yelling at each other like a bunch of NT's please? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ToadOfSteel wrote: | | Can we stop yelling at each other like a bunch of NT's please? |
agreed
this thread branched off a few times.
I found myself juggling and even firing
back a of few times
my original intent was to illustrate, what in
my opinion amounts to nothing more than
a power grab by a "noble" institution.
justify it anyway you like
it is happening
*Aspies  are not exactly a random sample.
but the results of this poll are about what I expected
_________________
ALT+F4=Life |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| monty wrote: | | Fred2670 wrote: |
Great.. thanks for sharing.
|
If your sources were on the net, why not provide a direct link ... that would be sharing. Half of your quotes don't have links, and most of the links you provided don't work. You are attempting to build a case, but you are not giving us convincing information. |
sorry about the links (i dont actually write this stuff)
most of them work real well
heres one for ya
http://www.empirezwinger.com/images/Leprechaun.jpg
building a case? nope just presenting a point of view. if people dont realize we are actually being invaded until its too late thats on them. My advice to any "nonbeliever" would be to first learn Spanish, then try to marry in. Joining the catholic church might not be a bad idea. Keep in mind there is always a chance, you could get dragged to the top of a temple to have your heart removed.
theres a ton of information out there.
I would expect to find more recent numbers
even though I did pull out a 2006 Zogby.
I was right about the oath
and you were right about the 14th
I dont agree with the 14th
I think other countries exploit it by sending
in their dual citizens to pressure American policy
makers into promoting their interests
smells like treason
thanks for sharing
seriously
_________________
ALT+F4=Life |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fred2670
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sojournertruth wrote: | | Fred2670 wrote: | Are you saying that the taxes illegal aliens willingly
file with their stolen social security numbers is a
sum greater than the benefits they recieve?
no? |
Yes. Or at least that they're not driving us bankrupt the way that you're implying. Not just taxes - they contribute to the economy in other ways, as well. |
_________________
ALT+F4=Life |
|
| Back to top |
|
DentArthurDent
Evolve Ye Christians & Dozers
Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Age: 48
Posts: 2612
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have to admit to not having to read the whole of this thread. but for goodness sake if you think that America is being driven bankrupt by illegal aliens stop being the same in other countries, stop spending a fortune on daft wars and start spending the money on social welfare. Arguing about religion and the bible is ridiculous because it a supertitious story started by ignorant people and peverted by others with an agenda. If everyone forgot about theology, and started to behave in a "christian" way there would be no problems
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
|
|
| Back to top |
|
monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 3170
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fred2670 wrote: |
...
I dont agree with the 14th
I think other countries exploit it by sending
in their dual citizens to pressure American policy
makers into promoting their interests
smells like treason
thanks for sharing
seriously |
The 14th was a response to the Civil War - it was for deciding who could serve in government after they had been part of an insurrection and had pledged allegiance to a government outside of the US federal system. Attempts to make the loyalty provisions relevant to today require taking it far beyond its original purpose.
My wife was a foreign national from a European country, went through the ropes and got citizenship. She wasn't asked to give up her foreign passport when she applied for it citizenship. She was required to cancel it when she applied for a security clearance.
I also have 'citizenship' in a European country because my grandparents were born there. I have not exercised my citizenship there, but the policy of the US Govt. is that it is ok to do so, provided it doesn't conflict with my allegiance to the US. For example, if I go there and am drafted, the US doesn't care if I serve. If I volunteer for a foreign military or work for their government in a political context, that would be seen as a conflict. If I work for their government as a doctor or teacher, the US doesn't object.
I would only use the word treason if someone were betraying a country. Not wearing a flag lapel pin every day, having a dual residence or dual passports, or maintaining cultural ties with their place of birth is not itself a big issue. Their interests might be different from yours, but 99+% of the time, it is clearly not treason.
Last edited by monty on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
