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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1811
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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 Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: Britishness |
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One thing which strikes me when seeing the members profiles here, is that many members from the UK actually do write UK as location. That may sound normal to Americans who, despite having several states with autonomy, feel strongly American in identity. However, for the UK this is different. I have lived in the UK for 2 years (in Northern Ireland actually, but I travelled to Scotland and England rather frequently during that time) and rarely met people who would say "I am British" or "I am from the UK". Most would identify as English, Scottish or Welsh. Only in Northern Ireland it is more complex due its unique and rather painful political backgrounds, but in the other parts of the UK most people I met would feel English, Welsh or Scottish and see the UK as an artificial union. I worked in customer service and took calls from British customers all the time, when asking their citizenship most would answer Scottish or English while only a small minority answered they were British. Some people I talked to said they would never ever feel British and even want England, Scotland and Wales to go separate ways. Oddly enough, many British people here do write UK in their profiles location field.
So is this just to make it easier for the majority of members here (who seem to be American) or do you guys really identify as British more than as English/Scottish? Is there any British identity or is this a dying thing only surviving in elderly people and people from Gibraltar and the Falklands?
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You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
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anna-banana
dares to fail
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 3093
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I lived in UK for 4 years and I haven't met a single person who'd consider themselves British that wasn't a second-generation immigrant.
I always found it strange, especially since there's really almost no difference in culture/mentality. I guess it comes from the historical differences but I'm not so sure why that would be still an issue nowdays...
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LeKiwi
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Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think most people identify with their country, but it's more for ease of geographical explanation. If that makes sense. So people know roughly where you're from. I've lived in England for a few years now, and we all write "UK" as where we're from, but would say the country in particular to other Brits (most will also say 'Brits' every now and then too). Within England, people will also specify further - I'm a Brummy, I'm from the Midlands, I'm from the West Country, I'm from Kent, Essex, Sussex, Dorset etc etc.
I don't think there's really any rhyme or reason to be honest.
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ToadOfSteel
Zomg Custom Rank
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 3238
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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If you ever met someone that said "I'm an Alabaman" or "I'm a Montanan", you would think they were presumptuous pricks.
The only states that can get away with that here in the US are New York, California, Florida, and Texas... |
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chever
'Mud'
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 1668
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a Pennsyltuckyan
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ToadOfSteel wrote: | If you ever met someone that said "I'm an Alabaman" or "I'm a Montanan", you would think they were presumptuous pricks.
The only states that can get away with that here in the US are New York, California, Florida, and Texas... |
Not sure why, you've got a massive continent - if you're telling someone where you're from wouldn't it make sense to say the state, at least?
No offense, but I really don't get Americans sometimes. Lots of the time.
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ToadOfSteel
Zomg Custom Rank
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 3238
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LeKiwi wrote: | | Not sure why, you've got a massive continent - if you're telling someone where you're from wouldn't it make sense to say the state, at least? |
Which is why you're either American, Mexican, or Canadian... 
In all reality though, usually people in the US that can trace their heritage within 2 or 3 generations to another country identify as such (i.e. Italian, Irish, etc), while close descendants of native tribes usually refer to their tribe name (Sioux, Navajo, etc.)
People often move from state to state thanks to fully open inter-state borders. As such, you find less of a distinct culture for each state (although there are a few renegades such as Vermont, Texas, and my home state, New Jersey). People often move many times in their life to different states, sometimes because they're being transferred there for their employment, sometimes because somebody wants to move closer to their family, sometimes just for a change of scenery. The list goes on.
In contrast, I get the idea that the 4 primary nationalities within the UK (English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish) tend to be fairly established in their respective territories (though by all means do let me know if I'm incorrect in that). |
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Sling
Sea Gull
Joined: Sep 13, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 240
Location: Oakfield, Ryde, Isle of Wight, England, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Great Britain is actually the name of the largest of the British Isles upon which England, Scotland and Wales are located on. The term British is an umbrella term for English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish people. Most people don't like being called British becuase they are proud of their individual countries. People are even proud of their counties and so on. People on the Isle of Wight actually appealed to the council to have the IOW declared a seperate county from Hampshire and succeeded. Proudness of nationality goes way back to when England unified, conquered Wales and repeatedly tried to conquer Scotland and Ireland. People of Wales, Scotland and Ireland are Celtish and English people are Angle and it is all from those old hostilities.
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z0rp
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Age: 15
Posts: 769
Location: New York, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I usually just say I live in New York, sometimes I'll put NY, USA but I never just put USA. |
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crackedpleasures
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Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1811
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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In larger countries there must be regional differences in culture. I mean, someone in Texas will have totally different cultural backgrounds sometimes than people in cosmopolitan New York, someone living in cultural melting pot LA grew up with totally other values than someone growing up in northern Alaskas isolated villages. And still everyone feels American, considers their country to be USA... I do find it odd sometimes, because the distances between for example Seattle and Miami are so huge that there must be local cultural differences.
But anyway, this topic is about the Brits here. In the UK, I also must say that I rarely see Union Jack flags in England, Scotland or Wales. I would see Welsh, English or Scottish flags and thats it. Only in Northern Ireland the Union flag is widely used but again, NI is totally different in political terms compared to the other home nations. Especially in Wales and Scotland the number of people wanting to split off from the UK and have their own nation is growing (in Scotland the independence seeking party is the 2nd most popular party I believe). I do spot ironically Britishness survives hundreds of miles away: people in Gibraltar who are constantly feeling harrassed by Spain will celebrate their British feeling, dito for those on the Falklands who are happy to be freed from Argentina. Ironic to see that a few thousand people in colonies very far away feel more British than the average person in England? I would also not say that the mentality in Scotland and England for example is the same, cultural differences may not be huge like when you would compare Europe to Asia, but still there is a strong local tough and a Scotsman will usually feel strong rivalry with an Englishman and vice versa.
But is Britishness dying or do most of you Brits feel a bit British in combination with the more local feeling? How do the UK based WP members see this? Would you identify as British or would you consider yourself more a proud Welshman/Scot/Englishman?
PS: NEVER call an Irish person in the Republic to be a Brit. Ireland liberated itself from the UK in a rather violent way and people still have a deep anger towards the previous occupation. The fact that 6 of the 32 counties on the island are still under British rule (Northern Ireland) is something that hurts Irish people very deeply. In lot of Dublin pubs I saw slogans scratched in toilet walls or fences, saying "if part of Ireland is unfree, we are all unfree".
I lived in Dublin and Belfast, so north and south of the border. I can guarantee, Irish people are one of the strongest patriots in Europe. The Irish pride and Irish identity is very very strong. Irish people will be extremely proud of their heritage, their culture, their celtic history, and how they finally liberated themselves from the Brits. To call an Irishman a Brit because it is part of the "British Isles" will insult this person generally. Just pointing that out, the Irish are the strongest patriots in the whole of western Europe for sure. Even Irish people abroud will still keep identifying as Irish even when they lived abroad for decades.
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You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
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claire333
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Posts: 2213
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Britishness |
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| crackedpleasures wrote: |
So is this just to make it easier for the majority of members here (who seem to be American) |
When I first began reading your post, this was my first thought as a possible reason too. I was thinking...maybe they heard the statistic on the number of US citizens who cannot find North America on a globe.  |
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EnglishLulu
Toucan
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I usually say I'm British, but I'm leaving overseas at the moment, and that's tied to my nationality and my passport.
If someone asks your nationality, you don't say I'm UK-ish, or I'm English, although I guess some Scottish and Welsh and Irish people might feel a stronger sense of national identity in that way, but I don't have an English passport, I have a British passport. |
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psych
OTTer
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 2011
Location: w london
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I like british, cos its georgraphical rather than political. Bretons have lived here since long before england etc existed.
Im not nationalistic, and my ambition is to legally resign my citizenship (become a 'freeman' under common law) with a group of like minded people, forming a town in britain where we could do whatever we wanted free from state tyranny. However, atm im on welfare & the free housing, money, travel etc is making the tyranny a lot harder to resist.
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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1811
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| EnglishLulu wrote: | I usually say I'm British, but I'm leaving overseas at the moment, and that's tied to my nationality and my passport.
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Same here. Belgian born and Belgian ID card, but have been living abroad for 4 years already so saying I am Belgian is not like saying "and I am proud of it" but just explaining a local what area of the world I grew up in, without emotional connection.
Most Brits living in England or Scotland that I met however refuse to call themselves British and strongly insist on being English or Scottish.
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You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
(London After Midnight) |
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pheonixiis
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 02, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 686
Location: sifting through the ashes
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ToadOfSteel wrote: | If you ever met someone that said "I'm an Alabaman" or "I'm a Montanan", you would think they were presumptuous pricks.
The only states that can get away with that here in the US are New York, California, Florida, and Texas... |
I'm a montanan. 
A.K.A "presumptuous ... bitch (?)"
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