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Macbeth
Voluntary Thane
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 2232
Location: UK Doncaster
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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The OP (and others) whilst mangling the concept quite badly, have raised an interesting point.. there is a bias in the world over national and ethnic pride. It does seem that it is acceptable to be proud of say.. your black ancestry.. your african roots (bearing in mind that black african nations have engaged in genocide, invasion, slavery and such, so they have not always been a pleasant and huggy group.). but to state pride in anglo-saxon roots or heritage is regarded as suspect or just plain racist and xenophobic. Now, both (all?) ethnic groups and all nations have engaged in dubious activities at one point or another (of the slaving/invading etc nature), so why is the onus of evil brought only on those with a white or european heritage? That is what the OP seems to be trying to say.. that there is a bias at work, and it is not based on performance etc, but on race. I don't happen to think that Obama was elected just because he was black, although it will be the case that people will have voted based on that....I do believe there is an inequality in such things as saying "voting for colour is acceptable so long as that colour is not white".. which has also occured.
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anna-banana
indifferent peapod
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 5598
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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TBH Macbeth, I don't see the point in being proud of anything that you didn't achieve yourself, so it's equally stupid to be proud of being black/white/of certain nationality. people are born to their race and nationality, but what they accomplish in life is *their* achievement. if you have no achievements then all you have is to bathe in your ancestors glory, which you personally had nothing to do with.
if someone insists on priding themselves in belonging to a certain ethnic/national group, they should also take the crimes of their ancestors on their shoulders, yet no one seems to be willing to do that.
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sartresue
Radical Aspergian
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 5190
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: If... |
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Ethnic pride topic
I think it is possible to be proud of the good things about one's heritage. There are also bad things, and it is important to learn from the bad parts.
Obama has Caucasian heritage as well as African. He is all too aware of abuses of both his ancestors.
I guess some ethnic groups have done worse than others. 
I did not vote for Barack because I am Canadian. If I was American I would have voted for his policies. If Hilary Rodham Clinton was running, I would not have voted for her because she is a woman. I certainly would not vote for Sarah Palin, as she is a Republican, and I do not agree with those politics.
This is not the first time an African American has run for president, but it was the first time one had the best chance of winning. I would imagine most AAs would vote for Obama because they see themselves reflected in him. Americans of colour have been through terrible times because of colour, and I see how hopeful they are to feel part of mainstream politics because of Obama. If I was an ordinary African American voter in the US, I would not feel comfortable with George Bush or John McCain. Nothing in the latter's agenda said anything positive for people of colour. Barack did. He also has the vote of the younger crowd because he likes to use the same technology as the young people. I do not think McCain had the same appeal.
May Obama and his administration accomplish all the good deeds they have set for themselves, and may the American people participate/benefit in this. 
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Last edited by sartresue on Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ike
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Age: 35
Posts: 692
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| falcorn wrote: | | ike wrote: | | So if you voted for McCain because he's white, then I can assume that you don't base your decisions on rational criteria and therefore whatever you're saying here can be automatically discounted as having any value because it's assumed to be ignorant. |
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The ENTIRE election was about black people voting for "their" guy.
Oh but I do the same thing and I'm "ignorant".
The rest of you white people are either:
1. just plain dumb and don't realize you are being racially attacked. 90% of blacks DID NOT vote for mcain because hes WHITE.
THAT'S CALLED RACISM
2. are scared of black people
I don't get it but I'm sick of all the racism to white people, it's no wonder people join the KKK it's called self defense.
Also i sure as hell didnt vote for mccain or obama i dont like either one. I said that to make a point. |
I don't spend a whole lot of time considering the opinions of people I believe to be ignorant irrespective of their race. I'm equally nonplussed by white people voting white as I am by black people voting black... But I think you're wrong about the election. Yes there were black people who voted black. There were also a lot of white people who voted white. My expectation is that they were likely in roughly equivalent numbers, such that even if the election were decided on the basis of a popular vote, it would have been an even playing field essentially. However, the presidential election isn't decided on a popular vote anyway, so ultimately my neighbor's voting decision doesn't count for anything. Because the only votes that made any difference were the electoral college votes placed by the various representatives. And those guys historically have frequently chosen to vote contrary to the way their constituents place their votes. And my bet would be that most of them didn't give any consideration at all to the color of Obama's skin.
The KKK is NOT self defense. You need to read up on your history.
A vote for Obama does not constitute a racial attack against white people. Frankly, that's just plain dumb. If I look at the actual issues and I decide that one candidate is a better bet on the basis of the actual issues, I'm not going to switch to support a guy who I know is a bad choice merely because other people are using bad information to inform their decision to support my preferred candidate. That's just plain stupid. That's like saying "ADT is a great security company, but some people choose ADT because their sales people are slick instead of because their service is good, so therefore because ADT gets some money for bad reasons, instead of choosing ADT, I'm going to go with Smash And Grab Security".
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Shiggily
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 1317
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Alicat1989 wrote: | | ppl voted for obama becoz he has good ideas not becoz he was black. america needs a change anyway. america was rascist to begin wiv white house??????? hello its like they didnt want a black president. |
bwahahahahahhahahha....
its called the White house because it is painted..... white.
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Haliphron
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 2293
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: if you voted for obama then you are a racist |
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| falcorn wrote: | if you voted for him because hes black. that means you are a racist bigot and you dont like white people
i voted for mccain becuase hes white. Oh you say that makes me racist?
i guess it does, but what does that make all the black people that voted for obama. there were even commercials on BET saying vote for obama hes the "black vote"
oh yea and everyone in africa is racist too because they only have black presidents, i guess we should all go there and vote for white people and get excited about the first "white" president in nigeria.
racist scum blacks |
This has got to be one of the Dumbest posts Ive seen in the PPhR forum in quite a while!  |
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Shiggily
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 1317
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: if you voted for obama then you are a racist |
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| Haliphron wrote: | | falcorn wrote: | if you voted for him because hes black. that means you are a racist bigot and you dont like white people
i voted for mccain becuase hes white. Oh you say that makes me racist?
i guess it does, but what does that make all the black people that voted for obama. there were even commercials on BET saying vote for obama hes the "black vote"
oh yea and everyone in africa is racist too because they only have black presidents, i guess we should all go there and vote for white people and get excited about the first "white" president in nigeria.
racist scum blacks |
This has got to be one of the Dumbest posts Ive seen in the PPhR forum in quite a while! |
well... there are underlying points. If you voted for him just because he is black. then yeah, there is a problem. In the same way that you vote for a different candidate because he is white.
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Haliphron
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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The OP said, as I quoted him, that he voted for McCain cos McCain is a white boy. And THEN he claims to know the motives of those who voted for Obama, claiming they're "racist" because they voted for him "cuz he's black"! A racist accusing others of being racist............  |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 5741
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Haliphron wrote: | | The OP said, as I quoted him, that he voted for McCain cos McCain is a white boy. And THEN he claims to know the motives of those who voted for Obama, claiming they're "racist" because they voted for him "cuz he's black"! A racist accusing others of being racist............ |
There are many reasons for voting for McCain other than his pale complexion:
1. He is brave and has a good war record.
2. He has a maverick twist which some people like.
3. He is more conservative than liberal.
4. He chose Sarah of the Frozen North as his running mate. When was the last time a babe ran for vice president. It sure wasn't Geraldine Ferraro, mafia gun moll.
and other reasons.
None of the above involve or imply a racial bias.
ruveyn |
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Haliphron
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 28
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Haliphron wrote: | | The OP said, as I quoted him, that he voted for McCain cos McCain is a white boy. And THEN he claims to know the motives of those who voted for Obama, claiming they're "racist" because they voted for him "cuz he's black"! A racist accusing others of being racist............ |
There are many reasons for voting for McCain other than his pale complexion:
1. He is brave and has a good war record.
2. He has a maverick twist which some people like.
3. He is more conservative than liberal.
4. He chose Sarah of the Frozen North as his running mate. When was the last time a babe ran for vice president. It sure wasn't Geraldine Ferraro, mafia gun moll.
and other reasons.
None of the above involve or imply a racial bias.
ruveyn |
I did NOT vote for him precisely for reason #3 and I really dont give a f_ck about Sarah Palin being a "babe"! You guys who voted for McCain because you think Palin is hawt are Losers. Im not a conservative because it is clearly NOT in my self-interest and I favor the individual over the group. |
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LostInEmulation
Penguin
Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 1878
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it is a good point, which the OP made. It's a kind of inverse racism. I would have voted for a white candidate though despite not being racist. The only candidate I like issuewise was Bob Barr. I like the picture where someone photoshopped Obama to be white and McCain to be black and wrote: focus on the issues please.
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I am not a native speaker. Please contact me if I made grammatical mistakes in the posting above.
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 5741
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Haliphron wrote: |
I did NOT vote for him precisely for reason #3 and I really dont give a f_ck about Sarah Palin being a "babe"! You guys who voted for McCain because you think Palin is hawt are Losers. Im not a conservative because it is clearly NOT in my self-interest and I favor the individual over the group. |
I did not vote for McCain. I wrote in C'thulhu (the Primordial Evil being created by H.P.Lovecraft) because I was just plain tired of voting for the lesser of evils. I decided to go first class for once.
I pointed that there were several reasons for voting -for- McCain none of which involved race, which is a denial of the point you made.
By the way, if you favor the individual over the group you should beware of collectivist policies pursued by Obama and his left leaning buddies. Both the conservatives and the ultra-liberals are statists who believe government is the most important element in our society. This is a highly anti-individualist position. Governments and the people who comprise them neither sow crops, spin and weave cloth nor make the machines of industry. Individual producers do that. Thomas Jefferson once said that if government were to ordain when we should sow and when we should reap, we should all soon want for bread. I would recommend regarding Obama's glittering promises with a degree of skepticism.
Now I have a riddle for you: What is a camel? Answer: A horse designed by Congress.
ruveyn |
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Haliphron
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 28
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Haliphron wrote: |
I did NOT vote for him precisely for reason #3 and I really dont give a f_ck about Sarah Palin being a "babe"! You guys who voted for McCain because you think Palin is hawt are Losers. Im not a conservative because it is clearly NOT in my self-interest and I favor the individual over the group. |
I did not vote for McCain. I wrote in C'thulhu (the Primordial Evil being created by H.P.Lovecraft) because I was just plain tired of voting for the lesser of evils. I decided to go first class for once.
I pointed that there were several reasons for voting -for- McCain none of which involved race, which is a denial of the point you made.
By the way, if you favor the individual over the group you should beware of collectivist policies pursued by Obama and his left leaning buddies. Both the conservatives and the ultra-liberals are statists who believe government is the most important element in our society. This is a highly anti-individualist position. Governments and the people who comprise them neither sow crops, spin and weave cloth nor make the machines of industry. Individual producers do that. Thomas Jefferson once said that if government were to ordain when we should sow and when we should reap, we should all soon want for bread. I would recommend regarding Obama's glittering promises with a degree of skepticism.
Now I have a riddle for you: What is a camel? Answer: A horse designed by Congress.
ruveyn |
Good points.
As for this nonsense about voting for Cthulhu, I dont mean to be a buzzkill but that joke is getting SO old. Im sick of people making fun of H P Lovecraft and his creations....  |
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LostInEmulation
Penguin
Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 1878
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think this was making only fun of the political process.
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I am not a native speaker. Please contact me if I made grammatical mistakes in the posting above.
Tekneluru mi'aru mi aji, il'sidekhir'ra min kia. Mi'ki'vasu kynha'het kirki. |
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ike
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Age: 35
Posts: 692
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Now I have a riddle for you: What is a camel? Answer: A horse designed by Congress. |
Really? Congress would have designed horses with improved desert survival biology?
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