techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject: AS + NT Exterior + High Standards = Not Right for Anyone? |
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I'm really starting to accept the fact that I'm going to die single. I'm f---ed, end of story.
Here's what I think my problem is though; I'm a pseudo NT rather than a cute, innocent, tripping-over-his-own-feet absent minded little professor like I'm supposed to be. I look innocent (in ways that women would rather toy with though), but I have a lot of those hardened and macho edges to my outlook and dialog. I tend to like the tougher more ambitious crowd, I wear a lot of Ecko and Phatfarm, I've been listening to rap more and more alongside everything else, but at the same time even though I can put off a pretty firm NT front I still have all the boundaries and drawbacks that most aspies have.
Here's what kills me though; when I was real soft, goofy, geeky, innocent, and back when I could puch a girl's maternal attraction buttons I hated who I was, I was getting the crap kicked out of me at school, and I had plenty of macho relatives grabbing me by the collar and giving me spray-through-the-teeth sessions about being soft, needing to toughen up, and one even went as far as saying that I'd go to hell because god didn't like wimps. I knew society hated me, I knew that even if I met a nice girl she'd probably have an uncle with big jocks for boys who'd probably offer to break my legs if I didn't leave without saying a word, and there was absolutely no other appropriate action and no other way to keep myself from being suicidally self-hating aside from giving the NT act 200% and molding myself into my ideals rather than just lay down and let AS steer my life.
Seriously though, I had this idea that crisping up, getting myself together, being more precise, and not acting goofy or dorky with girls would probably land me with the kind of girl I'd wanna be with - I was completely wrong. The more I look into it, the more I think society really walls people in,gives em glass ceilings off of their identities (in ways that their actions and quality of personality just can't save em), and once you alienate yourself from the one group society would put you with - even if t's not what would make you happy - you're all of a sudden not right for ANYONE.
I know all that sounds bitter and I hope one of these days I'll find a girl who's a little more open-minded about a guys identity. My question to all of you is have you found the same thing to be true in your experience? Does passing better as NT and losing that inocence about your personality destroy your only saving grace in the dating market? Mind you, I'm not saying I have high standards on women, just on my personality and in the sense of relationships on what kind of energy is being traded (I want a relationship grounded on that firmed up adult kind of energy, that sugar-coated maternal stuff for some reason just twists my stomache). |
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animallover
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think being single for the rest of your life is such a bad thing - just look at all the drama in relationships and be glad you don't have to deal with that - that is what I do . . .
But it is sort of depressing sometimes - I just think of how painful relationships are and realize that I prefer being alone to dealing with that sort of thing . . . |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| What really bugs me about that thought is it DOESN'T have to be like that - people don't have to have drama or be so selfish that they'll fight over trivia to the poit of breaking up, it's just the way of doing things according that our society almost overpoweringly endorses. I just went on a forum a minute ago where one of the members was talking about how NT's don't like what I'd think of as "practical empathy" (a typie of empathy we have which is truth-of-situation based rather than doating). My problem, aside from being on that empathetically dry-side, is there's a certain connection I feel I'm lacking. I feel like it's something that starves my existence of meaning in a lot of ways, and the problem is there's no one on the level that I'm looking for. When I realize that the vast majority of society chooses to opt out of being their best persons and when their choice to opt out is so unanimous that I'm left alienated - it's tough not to hate myself for striving as I have. |
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ghotistix
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 1186
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Did you have a lot better luck with girls when you were geeky? I think the problem has less to do with innocence and more to do with the fundamental differences between NTs and aspies. Every day I become more sure that NTs and aspies will never in a million years come close to understanding each other, no matter how we act.
Or maybe I've been doing this wrong all my life and I should start acting weird  |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ghotistix wrote: | | Did you have a lot better luck with girls when you were geeky? |
Yeah, that's pretty much the extent of it. It's almost been a direct trade-off between having a few women like me and having respect from the guys. |
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synchro
Toucan
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Here is what I have found regarding your first question. When I was in my teenage years and into my early twenties, I was involved in two long term relationships. After the breakup of my first long term, I had problems getting female attention. I attempted to adopt the mannerisms of my amorously successful companions of the day, which resulted in my feeling more miserable than I already did. I found I garnered far less attention than I did when I just behaved normally. The false persona I was trying to project was stressing to maintain and I felt like a poseur. When I returned to my brooding, silent and alternately goofy behavior, my situation improved.
I was very fortunate, as eventually I fell in love with a fantastic girl who almost completely accepted me. It wasn’t my weird personality or routines that caused her to leave. It was my inability to find and maintain gainful employment that was unacceptable to her. |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87144
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I like soft, nerdy guys. I feel more comfortable around them, but I'm also a nerd, too, so that explains my preference.  |
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hale_bopp
All Kinds of Freak
Joined: Nov 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 14837
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I had simialar problems upon reading the thread title, but after reading the thread not quite the same.
It's fairly easy for me to get into a relationship if I want to, I guess. But I have really high standards, and just didn't.
I don't like relationships much, and am happy single.
My advice is to be yourself.. You won't get anywhere pretending to be someone else in this case. The person is going to have to find out what you're really like in the end.. so I ask you this.. What's the point?
_________________
www.aspergersgirl.com |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hale_bopp wrote: |
My advice is to be yourself.. You won't get anywhere pretending to be someone else in this case. The person is going to have to find out what you're really like in the end.. so I ask you this.. What's the point? |
That's the problem though - I am being who I am. My sense of identy has really taken a shift, the NT act has permeted to where it IS me, just that I have the same points as many aspies where my brain is still routed in a way something quite different from NT. Overall, the act has permeated my psyche where I reconciled it with who I was, actually used it to add to the manifestation of my true self (ie. I picked NT's who embodied a lot of the things I personally looked up to and respected just from my own personal tastes), and the result is that I've become an aspie version of that in a lot of respects - the act has become one with my natural urges. |
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MrMeaner
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 401
Location: san antonio, tx
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: Re: AS + NT Exterior + High Standards = Not Right for Anyone |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | ...have you found the same thing to be true in your experience? Does passing better as NT and losing that inocence about your personality destroy your only saving grace in the dating market? .. |
Well not that i ever was that good with women to begin with, my success rate with the opposite sex was much better 10+ yrs ago..don't know why..i think i was more of a geek back then who'd come up with stupid things to say and do stupid things, but yet compared to now, my relating to females was ok, at best..my problem is mainly i don't approach women and ask them out or strike up a conversation..well some i do, but for the most part i don't..am i shy? yea, sometimes i am, but it's the thought of standing there looking like a fool, after being rejected by a female and then hearing her say 'you're not my type'..i'm like 'yea..you prefer guys who treat you like dirt'..and most seem to like that..or at least half, judging from the ones i've been with
and the way the divorce rate is, i don't think i'd ever want to take the plunge..suppose it don't work out..all i'm missing out on is alimony payments, child support payments and visitation rights (if we did have a child)..having to call in sick at work if i can't find a babysitter..these things i ain't prepared for, so i won't bother thinking about marriage for a long time, if (and a big IF at that) i were to find a woman who'll tolerate my kind.. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: Re: AS + NT Exterior + High Standards = Not Right for Anyone |
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| MrMeaner wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | ...have you found the same thing to be true in your experience? Does passing better as NT and losing that inocence about your personality destroy your only saving grace in the dating market? .. |
Well not that i ever was that good with women to begin with, my success rate with the opposite sex was much better 10+ yrs ago..don't know why..i think i was more of a geek back then who'd come up with stupid things to say and do stupid things, but yet compared to now, my relating to females was ok, at best..my problem is mainly i don't approach women and ask them out or strike up a conversation..well some i do, but for the most part i don't..am i shy? yea, sometimes i am, but it's the thought of standing there looking like a fool, after being rejected by a female and then hearing her say 'you're not my type'..i'm like 'yea..you prefer guys who treat you like dirt'..and most seem to like that..or at least half, judging from the ones i've been with
and the way the divorce rate is, i don't think i'd ever want to take the plunge..suppose it don't work out..all i'm missing out on is alimony payments, child support payments and visitation rights (if we did have a child)..having to call in sick at work if i can't find a babysitter..these things i ain't prepared for, so i won't bother thinking about marriage for a long time, if (and a big IF at that) i were to find a woman who'll tolerate my kind.. |
I still think there are some but it's like you said, preservation of self-respect and playing it cool is giving me the same distance from people. Btw, do you think dating aspie women would go much better or did you find a lot of the same roadblocks? (I'll keep this one on the DL) |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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I am in my second year in college, and I'm also having trouble with women. In high school, I was very shy and didn't talk to women or anyone at all very much. In college, I decided to break out of my shell and be a little more outgoing; it was easier to do being away from my family and those who knew me already. I apparently became a veritable flirt, my roommate thinking I was flirting with just about every girl I met. There were several girls I kind of liked and a few who liked me, but none of those got beyond casual friendship. Then, lo and behold, I met a woman who was not only beautiful but also willing to talk to me. She was a psychology major, and that interested me as well. When I first met her, I even jokingly asked her if she was a psych major so that she could play mind games with people...
She had a great personality: very thoughtful, polite, and adorably charming--with a bit of an almost childlike innocence that brings out the nurturing instinct in people. Things went pretty well between her and me for a while. We started hanging out together a lot; I was starting to fall in love; and she seemed to be too. Later, she changed her mind about me and started the sarcasm, dismissive statements, invasive questions, and lying. I tried to win her back; but, the nicer I was to her, the worse she was to me. She was a psychopath.
This year, I'm shy again about meeting women. Being treated with such sadism from someone you love is a little bit traumatizing. |
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iamlucille
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 648
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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as i'm relatively new in the dating world, i must say that it hasn't been too hard meeting guys. i don't know how that will change, if i'll become less attractive to people personality-wise or whatever over time. i'll just see what happens and how everything changes.
as hale_bopp said, i'm just trying to be myself, and most guys seem to like that i'm different from the average girl. isn't finding an identity for yourself and not trying to be who you aren't one of the most important things about finding your way in life anyway? think about it... if you're confident with yourself life should be pretty good to you. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| iamlucille wrote: | as i'm relatively new in the dating world, i must say that it hasn't been too hard meeting guys. i don't know how that will change, if i'll become less attractive to people personality-wise or whatever over time. i'll just see what happens and how everything changes.
as hale_bopp said, i'm just trying to be myself, and most guys seem to like that i'm different from the average girl. isn't finding an identity for yourself and not trying to be who you aren't one of the most important things about finding your way in life anyway? think about it... if you're confident with yourself life should be pretty good to you. |
I wish my sense of identity was that clear-cut and easy. Trouble is what used to be me trying to elaborate on myself and who I was, those results I wanted have permeated who I am to the point where throwing them away would mean me trying to be something I'm not.
I think even more though, my biggest problem as I think about it is luck - I've consistantly not run into the right people, been in the right situations with em, or had any means to work the angles necessary. To me that seems almost too supernatural, too much like I'm blaming chance (I tend not to believe in that being I have a very inward locus of control). Examining myself reveals nothing though - I'm doing the best I can with what neurological resources I have, almost overachieving in a lot of senses. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I think more and more lately, I've been getting hit with this feeling that I'm a person who statistically just shouldn't exist. That and taking it a step further, I feel like I'm paying the price of that uniqueness ulitimately with a life of celebacy because I'm so far off the charts and deviated from what's deemed normal. I don't know if that may sound narcissistic but trust me - it doesn't get me off in any way, shape, or form whatsoever. I hate it. |
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