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stanw
Emu Egg
Joined: Feb 08, 2009
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have a very similar anxiety about the NLD criteria. The things about which I am most glaringly "textbook" are the literalness, and a tendency toward being absolutely clueless in new situations without extensive verbal feedback and explanation.
BUT, I absolutely LOVE math, both its abstract purity, as well as its precision. It is reliable, it is logical - and it is a language you only really ever have to learn once. For most (if not all) of us, that language is base-10. Everything else is an extension of it - even the nonlinear maths like geometry and calculus.
Anyway, there is tons I can add to this, but the price OTHERS often pay for my (if I do say so myself) exceptionally high verbal proficiency, is a tendency to be - well, errr, *verbose*! 
Take care.
-stan shura |
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Cerddinen
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="timeisdead"][quote="LostInSpace"] | timeisdead wrote: |
Are there any ways they help you improve your non-verbal skills? |
Getting my diagnosis was kind of the end of the road for me. I finally found a psychologist that I got along with and seemed interested in helping me (this is difficult for me). He convinced my primary care physician to refer me to a neurologist. I had several tests done with him where he found a pineal cyst and temporal lobe epilepsy. I take medication for the temporal lobe epilepsy which supposedly helps with absence seizures but the problem with absence seizures is that I usually don't notice if I've had one so it's hard to tell how effective the medication actually is. I do remember being a bit more self aware when I started taking it but I don't know if that's lessened or I got used to being more self aware.
Thankfully, my psychologist didn't think that that was everything and he referred me to a neuropsychiatrist for neuropsych testing. The first psychiatrist wanted to put me on stimulant medication when he first met me but then at our second meeting decided that there was nothing wrong with me. I was appalled at his behavior (didn't have my charts, hadn't done his homework, changed his mind so completely with no reason, etc.) and I refused to see him again. My psychologist found someone else to do the testing and she diagnosed me with Nonverbal Learning Disability (127/100 split) with ADHD traits, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
My psychologist and I both agree that I don't really have OCD - it's just that my coping skills look like OCD. Since it doesn't impact my life negatively and not having those coping skills is problematic, we chose not to do anything about it. I was referred to a psychiatrist for the other stuff. At first, the psychiatrist wanted to deal with the anxiety first and he kept putting me on SSRI's even after I told him that I don't react well to SSRI's and don't want to take them. I tried 2 before he agreed to move off of the anxiety and onto the ADHD. He refused to give me a PRN for anxiety. I tried Adderall for ADHD and it worked very well but it made my blood pressure too high so I can't take it. I tried Strattera after that but it didn't work as well as Adderall and that's when that doctor started not calling in my prescriptions and I'd have to call his office every day and leave a message that my medication still hadn't been called into the pharmacy. A week into this, he called me to yell at me about calling him and leaving messages every day (one message each day and I would have stopped if he'd called in the prescription that he told me he was calling in when I left his office so should have been ready that afternoon). I refused to see him after he yelled at me and I stopped taking Strattera.
My psychologist knows that I have trouble with psychiatrists (as noted above) but he said that there really wasn't any place to send me. I met with him a few times but there wasn't much to do - he had done some research but he didn't know that much about NLD.
So, really, my diagnosis was also the end of my treatment.
I hope it's ok for me to be here. I was referred to this board by a member of an NLD mailing list but when I registered, there was no option for not having an autistic spectrum disorder. I clicked the other spectrum disorder option but there's still controversy over whether NLD is in fact on the autistic spectrum or not so I didn't know if it was ok for me to be here. |
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Cerddinen
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="LostInSpace"] | zen_mistress wrote: |
If this is stickied, I wonder if I could remove the poll, and also rewrite the original post, to make it more appropriate for an introduction to NLD. |
Your description of NLD is the best one I've ever seen. I actually copied it and pasted it to my livejournal yesterday before I became a member of this forum. I put that I didn't write it but I didn't know the name of the author. If you'd like me to credit you somehow, just let me know how. Thanks for writing it. |
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Cerddinen
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | i fit the profile better for nvld, but i think i have both aspergers and nvld. or can you have only one? |
An Asperger's diagnosis trumps an NLD diagnosis so if you have both, you'll usually only get diagnosed with Asperger's because they're so similar. If someone is diagnosed with NLD, it usually means that they don't fit the criteria for Asperger's but they do fit the criteria for NLD. |
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starygrrl
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerddinen wrote: | | richardbenson wrote: | | i fit the profile better for nvld, but i think i have both aspergers and nvld. or can you have only one? |
An Asperger's diagnosis trumps an NLD diagnosis so if you have both, you'll usually only get diagnosed with Asperger's because they're so similar. If someone is diagnosed with NLD, it usually means that they don't fit the criteria for Asperger's but they do fit the criteria for NLD. |
Actually this is not necessarily true. It is not uncommon for LD-NOS (nld) to be in the diagnosis if both are present. A PDD diagnosis does not necassarily preclude NLD, in fact it could be comorribund diagnosis. It all depends on whether the diagnostician is apt to say NLD is an atypical version of AS (thus getting a PDD-NOS diagnosis) or a learning disorder. If they come from the learning disorder school of thought, its co-morribund, if they come from NLD being atypical AS, AS diagnosis trumps it. It is VERY inconsistant right now. Both AS and NLD though are caused by the same thing, atypical right hemesphere development. |
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vivinator
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 300
Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Cerddinen"][quote="timeisdead"] | LostInSpace wrote: | | timeisdead wrote: |
Are there any ways they help you improve your non-verbal skills? |
Getting my diagnosis was kind of the end of the road for me. I finally found a psychologist that I got along with and seemed interested in helping me (this is difficult for me). He convinced my primary care physician to refer me to a neurologist. I had several tests done with him where he found a pineal cyst and temporal lobe epilepsy. I take medication for the temporal lobe epilepsy which supposedly helps with absence seizures but the problem with absence seizures is that I usually don't notice if I've had one so it's hard to tell how effective the medication actually is. I do remember being a bit more self aware when I started taking it but I don't know if that's lessened or I got used to being more self aware.
Thankfully, my psychologist didn't think that that was everything and he referred me to a neuropsychiatrist for neuropsych testing. The first psychiatrist wanted to put me on stimulant medication when he first met me but then at our second meeting decided that there was nothing wrong with me. I was appalled at his behavior (didn't have my charts, hadn't done his homework, changed his mind so completely with no reason, etc.) and I refused to see him again. My psychologist found someone else to do the testing and she diagnosed me with Nonverbal Learning Disability (127/100 split) with ADHD traits, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
My psychologist and I both agree that I don't really have OCD - it's just that my coping skills look like OCD. Since it doesn't impact my life negatively and not having those coping skills is problematic, we chose not to do anything about it. I was referred to a psychiatrist for the other stuff. At first, the psychiatrist wanted to deal with the anxiety first and he kept putting me on SSRI's even after I told him that I don't react well to SSRI's and don't want to take them. I tried 2 before he agreed to move off of the anxiety and onto the ADHD. He refused to give me a PRN for anxiety. I tried Adderall for ADHD and it worked very well but it made my blood pressure too high so I can't take it. I tried Strattera after that but it didn't work as well as Adderall and that's when that doctor started not calling in my prescriptions and I'd have to call his office every day and leave a message that my medication still hadn't been called into the pharmacy. A week into this, he called me to yell at me about calling him and leaving messages every day (one message each day and I would have stopped if he'd called in the prescription that he told me he was calling in when I left his office so should have been ready that afternoon). I refused to see him after he yelled at me and I stopped taking Strattera.
My psychologist knows that I have trouble with psychiatrists (as noted above) but he said that there really wasn't any place to send me. I met with him a few times but there wasn't much to do - he had done some research but he didn't know that much about NLD.
So, really, my diagnosis was also the end of my treatment.
I hope it's ok for me to be here. I was referred to this board by a member of an NLD mailing list but when I registered, there was no option for not having an autistic spectrum disorder. I clicked the other spectrum disorder option but there's still controversy over whether NLD is in fact on the autistic spectrum or not so I didn't know if it was ok for me to be here. |
welcome. I am the member that referred you. or at elast i'm guessing.
_________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
-HL Mencken
-as of now official dx is ADHD (inattentive type) but said ADD (314.00) on the dx paper, PDD-NOS and was told looks like I have NLD |
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zen_mistress
* ENFP *
Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 2195
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerddinen wrote: | LostInSpace wrote: | zen_mistress wrote: |
If this is stickied, I wonder if I could remove the poll, and also rewrite the original post, to make it more appropriate for an introduction to NLD. |
Your description of NLD is the best one I've ever seen. I actually copied it and pasted it to my livejournal yesterday before I became a member of this forum. I put that I didn't write it but I didn't know the name of the author. If you'd like me to credit you somehow, just let me know how. Thanks for writing it. |
I just want to note that my name somehow got stuck in the quote, it was LostInSpace who started the sticky and wrote the NLD description. Just to relay any confusion. It is very hard with quotes sometimes... the names can get mixed up. |
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philski
Blue Jay
Joined: Feb 26, 2007
Posts: 84
Location: Park City
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: NLD Information and Support Thread |
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| LostInSpace wrote: |
General characteristics of NLDers: Verbal IQ is often much higher than Performance IQ
Reliance on verbal mediation (“talking oneself through a task”)
Focus on details while missing the big picture
Difficulty with sarcasm and a tendency towards literal thinking
Preference for routine and difficulty with novelty or change
May appear naïve and gullible
Very prone to anxiety and depression |
Outstanding definition of NLD and how it compares to AS and other autism spectrum disorders. At nearly 50 years of age I'm finally starting to make some sense of my growing up years and how I've been impacted by having NLD and ADD. Back when I was a kid there was very little in this realm that was a helpful diagnosis. About as far as they went was 'brain damage'.
I'm curious if its possible to have Asperger's as a child and learn enough social skills and coping mechanisms to simply be 'downgraded' to NVD? I recall that much of my personality as a child was leaning to the autistic side. Today, I don't see myself as having clear autistic patterns due to many years of learning both physical motor skills as well as social skills. Same with my ADD. Using a palm pilot with alarms I am now almost never late to anything and rarely find myself acting very impulsive, bored, or distracted. As a child and teen I was all of the above in a big way. I am aware that I have to be vigilant in staying both physically and mentally active or I seem to back slide into ADD traits.
NLD seems to manifest itself in emotional exhaustion if in a social situation for more than an hour. Also not seeing 'red flags' with some people socially and how they cannot be trusted as well as in my construction business in how some people take advantage of my good will. The anxiety and depression still is something I deal with as a consequence of living with NLD symptoms my whole life and not knowing how to manage or accept it. Seems to be an inherited condition as my Grandfather showed symptoms and my nephew was dx with NLD. I'm so pleased that he has gone to a school designed for kids with this challenge.
Seems like the more info about these conditions the more freedom individuals have in not having that condition be a hindrance in becoming all they can be.
Thanks to all who contribute in providing much of this information.
Cheers,
Phil
_________________
<My Karma ran over your Dogma.> |
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hannahcamille
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Midwest, United States
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: "Verbal Mediation" |
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I really like this term. Verbalizing the nonverbal. Cool.
_________________
hannahcamille
http://nldthoughtsandfeelings.wordpress.com
(blog on living with spectrum conditions) |
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hannahcamille
Hummingbird
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Midwest, United States
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: NLD: Unexpected Nonverbal Strength Areas |
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As a reply to the question about whether someone with NLD can have some areas of nonverbal strength, I think it's possible. I have NLD and the following are so-called nonverbal things I heard of people with NLD doing well (or without serious trouble):
-playing a musical instrument
-having a few friends
-relating well to animals
-cooking
-simple art projects
-applying Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences
-capable of doing well in relatively unstructured setting
-attending outdoor leadership therapy camp
-"thinking outside the box"
-enjoying creative writing
-able to make compromises
-can be inventive/creative/resourceful
-uses intuition
-displays sensitivity to self and others
_________________
hannahcamille
http://nldthoughtsandfeelings.wordpress.com
(blog on living with spectrum conditions) |
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starygrrl
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: NLD: Unexpected Nonverbal Strength Areas |
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| hannahcamille wrote: | As a reply to the question about whether someone with NLD can have some areas of nonverbal strength, I think it's possible. I have NLD and the following are so-called nonverbal things I heard of people with NLD doing well (or without serious trouble):
-playing a musical instrument
-having a few friends
-relating well to animals
-cooking
-simple art projects
-applying Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences
-capable of doing well in relatively unstructured setting
-attending outdoor leadership therapy camp
-"thinking outside the box"
-enjoying creative writing
-able to make compromises
-can be inventive/creative/resourceful
-uses intuition
-displays sensitivity to self and others |
Writing is a verbal skill. People with NLD do pretty with the written word once any tracking issue is taken care of, and its been noted with individuals with NLD tend to be very imaginative. Writing is a very common profession with individuals with nld.
Music also plays into NLDs assets. NLD is noted for BOTH audio and verbal assets. While we may struggle to read the music on a paper, we seem to have an intuitive and natural ability with music because of auditory assets.
So while you may think those are nonverbal, you have to realize the verbal is anything auditory.
The nonverbal is in refrence to spatial and visual deficits. Folks with NLD have a very good grasp though on language and music, basically, all things auditory. I may not be able to catch a persons mood with body language, but I am very sensitive to moods which come out in ones voice. |
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Whatsherhame
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Question:
Is it possible to have aspergers and NLD at the same time? Because that's what I apparently have.  |
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vivinator
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 300
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatsherhame wrote: | Question:
Is it possible to have aspergers and NLD at the same time? Because that's what I apparently have. |
yup.
_________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
-HL Mencken
-as of now official dx is ADHD (inattentive type) but said ADD (314.00) on the dx paper, PDD-NOS and was told looks like I have NLD |
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exhausted
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 552
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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well--don't know if anyone else is posting at this thread anymore, but felt i had to jump in anyway.
in 40's and just coming into an awareness of both NLD and AS. the descriptions of NLD especially have given me a strong framework for putting a lot of little mysteries into perspective. once i have health care, will consult a neuropsychologist.
i've always wondered about my "wiring"--at least, as long as it was possible to wonder about such things. knew it was different. (have an almost photographic memory for words and can be highly analytical but can get lost in familiar buildings. didn't ride a bike until 12. math is an enduring mystery. that tricky "left-right thing" still catches me up.)
just wondering how people with NLD feel their social skills are in comparison/contrast with AS? (mine are terrible. even though i understand metaphor, etc. in print--when in one-on-one contact with others, i take most things literally. i can't see the point of small talk. i have difficulty with "appropriate" facial expressions. i don't like eye contact. most of the rules of social etiquette either escape me or make little sense--like gossip, etc. etc., etc.,)
just wanted to put this out there. know it's long. but i'm still
--trying to figure it all out.  |
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Cerddinen
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| vivinator wrote: |
of course the late-talking plus visual-spatial seemingly rules isn't common with as.
the late-talking could exclude it. not sure how late i talked. well i did call dada and mama and 1.5 yrs.
2 languages were spoken in the house as well.
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The clinician might not have been aware of it but it's normal for simultaneous bilinguals to begin speaking later than monolinguals but when they begin speaking, they speak both languages. It would seem to me that late speech for a simultaneous bilingual shouldn't rule out anything. |
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