Post 2279308 - (First time in history!!!! The NT/AS open hotline !!!!!!)

WP Members: > 70,000

New Today: 21
New Yesterday: 28

First time in history!!!! The NT/AS open hotline !!!!!!

Previous 1, 2, 3, ... 119, 120, 121 Next
page:

Wrong Planet Autism Forum Index -> General Autism Discussion

Rate the idea

Good

68%

[ 761 ]

Bad

[ 19 ]

Good and bad

[ 80 ]

I'm indifferent

10%

[ 122 ]

Greentea's crazy! / Greentea's king! / Let see those results

11%

[ 129 ]

Total Votes : 1111

Janissy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 4853

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject:

Gerhardt wrote:

This is a question for NT's, generally young women NT's but anyone can answer:

What would the best way for an Aspie to tell you that he has Aspergers? A lot of times I meet NT women that are nice and all but they misinterpret my cold gaze and lack of social congruency as stand offish and insecure, and thus refuse to date me. I feel if they know I have aspergers they'll be more prone to understanding how I work and seeing my true colors. I've told some women that I have Aspergers directly but it ends up making things even more awkward.

I'm an older NT woman but I can remember being a young one so I'll tell you what would have worked with me.

A t-shirt.

Back in the day I would often get in conversations with guys about their t-shirts. T-shirts are a great conversation starter since they advertise something about the person that he/she wants the world to know: music tastes, political standing, a place visited , a favorite cause. These days with cafepress you can easily design your own t-shirt with some sort of fun or jokey reference to Asperger's. There are probably dozens already out there. And I notice WP itself is selling WP shirts, which could lead to a woman asking "what is 'Wrong Planet?'".

Janissy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 4853

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject:

millie wrote:

This is wonderful Greentea.

Here is my very basic question:

Why do many NT people not say what they think and say what they do not think?

Please NT people willing to answer - give more of an answer than "politeness." Smile

Why are things so unclear? I spend much time after interactions with people, trying to decipher the true meanings - the subtexts and the subtleties. This has led to lifelong confusion in any kind of relationships with people. NT people I know, giggle at me and say "oh millie..." And I am nearing 47 and still no closer to understanding the truths or untruths behind the words. It makes life and people rather scary.

i think that nearly covers it all...until the next question.

Hmmm. So basic and yet so enormous. The thing is, there are many, many reasons and they are all situational. "Politeness" is just one answer for some situations. I recommend you read the thread about "why do NTs have an easier time with social feigning". It addresses some aspects of that.

Here is a really partial list:

politeness (you already heard that one) ("that meal tasted great!')

to deliberately deceive (saying "I love you" instead of "I want to have sex with you and then never see you again" because you know only the former will actually work- pet peeve of many women)

compassion ("your son died quickly and did not suffer" lied the doctor)

anger ("I had an affair too!" lied the jilted spouse)

to cover up ignorance ("I was just about to say that")

to cover up fear ("no- I have absolutely no problem being around lots of bees")

I could keep on going and going and going. The main thing is, it's situational. There is no one reason- or even 100 reasons- why it's done. There are as many reasons as there are situations. The biggest difference that I've come to appreciate after being here for a bit is that AS people abhor this while NT people abhor only those things that lead to harm. Greentea had a plausible theory about this which is in the "social feigning" thread, which I recommend.

While I'm here, thank you to the posters who answered my self injury question. The answers are sobering (no quick fix- didn't expect one, just had a vain hope) but very helpful.

millie
bits, pieces, brass, animals
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Age: 50
Posts: 3448

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Janissy wrote:

millie wrote:

thanks janissy. Smile

And here lies the unbridgeable gulf. I have already deduced a large portion of the reasoning you outline, throughout the course of my life. (i am nudging 47. At twenty and even 36 i had not a clue. I have learned late, and learned a lot, in the past decade!)

And i still do not understand, because on a most fundamental level, I cannot for the life of me comprehend why anyone would say anything, anything at all, unless they truly meant it. Surprised

_________________
http://thegameofbreathing.blogspot.com

Psiri
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Age: 32
Posts: 281
Location: Milton Keynes, UK

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject:

Great idea Greentea. My Question: Almost everything I say in conversation is just to fill the silence or to be interesting in some way. I know NT conversation has many other purposes - eg. making someone feel good or trying to impress someone etc. etc. What I want to know is how much of it? Does everything NT's say have a purpose regarding the next person? _________________ Tangled up and Blue

cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject:

Janissy wrote:

I think this is a great idea!!!

My questions ( am an NT parent of an AS child):

Were you self-injurious as a child? Did you grow out of it and have the feeling fade away or did you come up with specific ways to cope so you wouldn't self-injure? If somebody intervened (such as holding your hands) would that be helpful till the feeling passes or would it be even more upsetting?

I used to bite myself and head bang. My mom used to use manual restraint until the behavior stopped (it worked). I don't bite myself today.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."

millie
bits, pieces, brass, animals
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Age: 50
Posts: 3448

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject:

Quote:

cyberscan wrote:

Janissy wrote:

I used to bite myself and head bang. My mom used to use manual restraint until the behavior stopped (it worked). I don't bite myself today.

self-injury has been a feature of my life. Even this year at my age, off meds, the tendency and pull towards it arises.

Janissy, rather than restraint...might I suggest substitution or "alternative." The internal pressure in me when i wanted/want to self-harm has mainly been alleviated by substitution with a more positive form of stimming that is not self-injurious.
If "just restrained" the internal energy remains in me, like an explosive force that is unbearable. it needs to come out...somehow....

I hope this helps.
_________________
http://thegameofbreathing.blogspot.com

cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject:

I still head bang, but I'm aware that the NT world fears and hates headbanging, so I usually limit where and how hard I do it. _________________ I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational. I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."

Butterflair
Deinonychus

Joined: Jul 06, 2008
Posts: 381

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject:

Psiri wrote:

Great idea Greentea.

My Question: Almost everything I say in conversation is just to fill the silence or to be interesting in some way. I know NT conversation has many other purposes - eg. making someone feel good or trying to impress someone etc. etc. What I want to know is how much of it? Does everything NT's say have a purpose regarding the next person?

I like this idea too. I'm an NT seeking understanding of the Aspie world.

Conversation doesn't always have purpose. Sometimes it's just being polite. If you see someone you know at the store, you say hello and how are you. A very short conversation to acknowledge that person.

Sometimes conversation might involve catching up on each other's lives, gaining information or as you said trying to impress or flatter someone.

Everyone can be different though, some might not like to talk much and others like to talk alot. So no, it doesn't always have a purpose.
_________________
No matter what your age, you don't need to change the world to find love, sometimes all that has to change is you. Be open to the possibilities.

Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject:

QUESTION TO NTs ABOUT HONESTY vs. WHITE LIES: I do someone a favor, then they don't reciprocate when I need it. Then they ask for a favor again. Why should I tell a white lie, such as "I'm in the middle of something, I'll call you later" (and never call again), which is what people usually do, to protect their feelings? Why should I care about their feelings when they obviously don't give a damn about mine? _________________ So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.

Janissy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 4853

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject:

Greentea wrote:

QUESTION TO NTs ABOUT HONESTY vs. WHITE LIES:

I do someone a favor, then they don't reciprocate when I need it. Then they ask for a favor again. Why should I tell a white lie, such as "I'm in the middle of something, I'll call you later" (and never call again), which is what people usually do, to protect their feelings? Why should I care about their feelings when they obviously don't give a damn about mine?

It depends on what you want out of the relationship.

If you have more or less given up on them and written them off, the purpose of the feeling-sparing white lie is actually to prevent them from running around town and telling everybody that you are a mean person. White lies to spare feelings aren't always altruistic. They can also be to avopid giving the other person ammunition that they can use to sour other people against you.

But if you think this relationship could be salvaged if it were more of a two-way street and they returned favors to you sometimes too, then diplomatic honesty is the best course.

I have been in your position (it's a very common position) and played it both of those ways depending on where I wanted the relationship to go.

When I just wanted the person to stop bugging me for favors that would never be returned, I did the white lie. Sparing their feelings was so that I wouldn't make an enemy.

When I thought the relationship could be saved if it were more reciprocal, I said so, but diplomatically. "I want to help you, but sometimes I need help too. Will you be there for me like I am for you?" The genuinely good hearted person who was just having a selfish moment gets a little ashamed and promises to be more reciprocal in the future. The relationship gets salvaged. Sometimes people are just oblivious to the needs of others and need an honest but diplomatic nudge towards reciprocity. Believe me, this situation is so common there are probably few people who haven't been in it at some point.

Undiplomatic honesty could go either way. If you say, "I feel used and I won't do you any more favors because you turned me away when I needed help" the person might be shocked and shamed into being more reciprocal in the future. Or you might make a mortal enemy. It depends on whether this is a nice but oblivious person who needs a wakeup call or just a user. That's a judgement call based on how well you know the other person.

CleverKitten
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 955
Location: Norfolk, Virginia, USA

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject:

This thread should be stickied. _________________ "Life is demanding without understanding." - Ace of Base Check out my blog: http://glanceoutthewindow.blogspot.com/

Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Janissy. One thing I still don't have clear: if I tell them that I'm in the middle of something and will call later, and never call again - how does that affect the NT mind to not become an enemy and badmouth me? I mean, if NTs can see through white lies, why do they anyway prefer a white lie? _________________ So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.

Janissy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 4853

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject:

Greentea wrote:

Thank you, Janissy. One thing I still don't have clear: if I tell them that I'm in the middle of something and will call later, and never call again - how does that affect the NT mind to not become an enemy and badmouth me? I mean, if NTs can see through white lies, why do they anyway prefer a white lie?

Open confrontation puts people on the defensive. People who feel that they are now required to verbally defend a questionable action will sometimes lash out- that's when you've made the enemy. The white lie (that they can nevertheless see through) lets them off the hook. They now don't have to defend the action and so aren't on the defensive. Your white lie says, "I know you did it and you know you did it but I'm willing to let it go. If you're willing to accept that our relationship is now forever changed."

Sometimes you need open confrontation to clear the air. If the person seems to be a serial user and the odds are high that other people have had this problem too, the direct confrontation is a better choice because even if they go badmouthing you, other people have been used by this person too so the badmouthing won't work. But if uyou don't know for certain how other people will react, the white lie defuses any defensiveness on the person's part.

A best-case scenario is they are an oblivious but good person who needs diplomatic honesty and then the relationship can become reciprocal. The white lie that you both know is a white lie is for when you want the person to stop bugging you with unreturned favors and you also don't want to put them on the defensive. This lets them off the hook (they don't have to try to justify their actions) while also letting them know you won't be used.

millie
bits, pieces, brass, animals
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Age: 50
Posts: 3448

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject:

PLEASE STICKY THIS THREAD. it's fantastic and VERY helpful. _________________ http://thegameofbreathing.blogspot.com

marshall
Under the whirlwind
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9207
Location: Western Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject:

I have some questions for an NT to answer. In social situations such as parties do you ever get a feeling of connectedness or emotional reward while talking to someone even if the topic doesn't interest you very much? Does it ever feel good to talk to someone just because you like them regardless of the topic? Can you estimate what percentage of the time you actually enjoy the topics as well as the people and what percentage of the time feel like you have to "fake" interest in a topic just to be friendly? When the topic being discussed isn't particularly interesting to you (I'm not saying you're necessarily bored out of your mind, just a fairly neutral level of interest) do you ever feel like your mind slows down? Is it more difficult to quickly come up with socially appropriate things to say in this situation? Is this strictly an AS trait or do NT's experience this as well, only to a lesser degree? Are you ever both bored and feeling down during social occasions? When you're feeling down is it more difficult to take interest in someone else's topic of conversation? If you're forced to "fake it" what kind of strategy do you use to gather the energy to participate?

Wrong Planet Autism Forum Index -> General Autism Discussion

Previous 1, 2, 3, ... 119, 120, 121 Next

Forums ©

Read more Articles on Wrong Planet

Wrong Planet is a Registered Trademark.
Copyright 2004-2013, Wrong Planet, LLC and Alex Plank. Alex does public speaking for Autism.

Advertise on Wrong Planet

Wrong Planet News Wrong Planet Forums